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 Melissia wrote:
Christ, that's a really low amount of acts of faith. Once again, GW fails to balance AoFs for various levels of play.

I really don't know about that yet. We need to see the points for Imagifers and the ability to bubble out of vehicles. If they are cheap and auras work out of vehicles, then we will have tons of AOF activations every turn.

Unless the Imagifier is a 15 pt character. Then we're just paying for a 50/50 shot for faith. I was hoping for some sort of detailed faith system like the KDK blood tithe points, but alas...


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I hate you Petre.

Don't hate the player...

And yeah, if Imagifer are 15-20 points and auras work out of vehicles, it'll be easy.

Doubt Imagifiers will work from inside vehicules. The wording on the rule mentions picking a model within 6 inches of it. For all intent and purpose, based on the current rules, once a character is in a transport, it no longer can use abilities unless worded otherwise. There is nothing in the description that contradicts the transport rule.


As or point cost, that original source on Natfka was pretty much on the spot for his rumors. There's a very good chance it will be 40 points for it at this point.

I was really just expecting another straight copy and paste from the last codex, with nothing really changed other that points costs, so I'm looking forward to trying out some changes to the army for the first time since the WD dex.

The new acts of faith are very good, but I think a lot of people are put off them because they don't combo well with our usual go to units, the dominions and the exorcist. Since they're used at the start of a turn they're pretty situational for short ranged weapons, plus after their scout move they'll be well ahead of any imagifiers. Exorcists don't have the act of faith rule so obviously nothing for them either. I can imagine the list to beat for the army will still be one that maximises these units.

Since blasts are gone and transports are so much more expensive, I can see infantry becoming a lot more viable. Something like a few squads of retributors with heavy bolter and multimeltas, with a large squad of sisters or two to screen them from melee units, all backed up by Celestine, canonesses and imagifiers is an army I really want to get running.

If imagifiers could be taken as Hq choices, and acts of faith could be used at the start of any of your phases this codex would have been seriously good, as it is well have to wait and see how not plays on the tabletop. I suppose a lot of it depends on how good stratagems are, and if it's worth dipping into other lists for cheap tax units to Max out command points.

My dominions scout with their ride... which is still great!
Looks like I'll need more bolter sisters, with the cost of a rhino I don't see much of a reason to buy one. I wonder what model they have for Imagifiers?

Anpu-adom wrote:My dominions scout with their ride... which is still great!
Looks like I'll need more bolter sisters, with the cost of a rhino I don't see much of a reason to buy one. I wonder what model they have for Imagifiers?

An Imagifier is the model carrying the Simulacrum Imperalis. There's two different variants [at least that I have], one with a little house with skulls inside of it and one with a more ordinary banner.

All things considered, I wish that units in transports could move their metal box with Hand of the Emperor. That would get Repentia and Dominions up board a lot faster, since Dominions are losing about 6" of threat range.

Hoboanarki wrote:I was really just expecting another straight copy and paste from the last codex, with nothing really changed other that points costs, so I'm looking forward to trying out some changes to the army for the first time since the WD dex.

The new acts of faith are very good, but I think a lot of people are put off them because they don't combo well with our usual go to units, the dominions and the exorcist. Since they're used at the start of a turn they're pretty situational for short ranged weapons, plus after their scout move they'll be well ahead of any imagifiers. Exorcists don't have the act of faith rule so obviously nothing for them either. I can imagine the list to beat for the army will still be one that maximises these units.

Since blasts are gone and transports are so much more expensive, I can see infantry becoming a lot more viable. Something like a few squads of retributors with heavy bolter and multimeltas, with a large squad of sisters or two to screen them from melee units, all backed up by Celestine, canonesses and imagifiers is an army I really want to get running.

If imagifiers could be taken as Hq choices, and acts of faith could be used at the start of any of your phases this codex would have been seriously good, as it is well have to wait and see how not plays on the tabletop. I suppose a lot of it depends on how good stratagems are, and if it's worth dipping into other lists for cheap tax units to Max out command points.

I see potential in Seraphim with the Hand of the Emperor ability, but there's just not enough acts of faith in the army to plan anything around them. I play at 1850 to 2500 points normally, so there's not going to be enough Acts to go around.

I'm not excited about the Divine Guidance ability. The Imperial Guard gets the same ability via First Rank Fire! Second Rank Fire!, and strictly better. The problem is, that this is the only one that works with Imagifiers being the source of additional Acts, since Imagifiers can't keep up with fast shooting or melee units. Celestine being an extra act to nearby units makes her both an auto-take and facilitates aggression somewhat, but only in small games.

The Passion is rarely going to get used, because the units that can make use of it will be too far from Imagifiers to be able to.

Spirit of the Martyr would definitely be good. But a Hospitaller achieves the same ends, without consuming the turn's act.



Anyway, I'll be needing more Imagifiers. And at 40 points for a 50/50 shot an an extra act per turn, they strike me as a bit too expensive.

You know characters like imagifiers can hang out in a transport, right?

Put three dominions forward with 3 Imagifiers in the Immos/Repressors.


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Also, I could see using Passion all the time with Celestine. If she's still in combat, carve up the unit at the start of the turn with passion and then go to a new one during move and assault.

 pretre wrote:
You know characters like imagifiers can hang out in a transport, right?

Put three dominions forward with 3 Imagifiers in the Immos/Repressors.


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Also, I could see using Passion all the time with Celestine. If she's still in combat, carve up the unit at the start of the turn with passion and then go to a new one during move and assault.

The math just doesn't work there, though.

Sure, I can stick a Imagifier in with my Dominions [though the Imagifier lacks the Vanguard rule, and would therefore block the Dominions from scouting their transport], to get her up the field, but at the start of turn 1 the Dominions and Imagifiers and in their transports and are therefore unable to use an Act of Faith anyway.

And, because Acts of Faith will happen before the movement phase, and debarking happens before the transport moves, the Imagifiers inside transports won't be able to grant acts of faith until turn 3, by which point the units that needed the Imagifiers to support them are either dead or have advanced out of the Imagifiers' reach.

Why so pricey with the Rhinos? The leak actually has Immos as cheaper. There's room in an Immo for a minimum squad and a Priest or Imagifier, and I feel like the turret weapons mostly got better, so at the new price the ol' basic metal box seems destined for the scrap heap. Especially since I don't see fire points anywhere.

It seems like our tactics are mostly the same... Vanguard Dominions with max melta in an Immo, now with Imagifier to try for an extra round of in your face shooting. HB Retributers, now maybe with Imagifier, probably on foot taking the occasional -1 to reposition. Blobs with Priests and board control/gunline tactics. Exorcists doing what they do. Maybe more frequent sightings of Seraphim, Ecclesiarchy freaks, and possibly Penitent Engines... but maybe not. Still no good way to deliver Repentia.

Edit: just caught the post above... so no dice on Vanguard Doms. I guess a big squad with combi melta could try to hoof it off the line and protect their guns and Imagifier until they're in range.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

The math just doesn't work there, though.

Sure, I can stick a Imagifier in with my Dominions [though the Imagifier lacks the Vanguard rule, and would therefore block the Dominions from scouting their transport], to get her up the field, but at the start of turn 1 the Dominions and Imagifiers and in their transports and are therefore unable to use an Act of Faith anyway.

And, because Acts of Faith will happen before the movement phase, and debarking happens before the transport moves, the Imagifiers inside transports won't be able to grant acts of faith until turn 3, by which point the units that needed the Imagifiers to support them are either dead or have advanced out of the Imagifiers' reach.

There's no indication that this blocks use of scout on the transport. If they are in a transport, they give it to their transport. It doesn't say anything about other units in the transport.

Also, where are you seeing that being in a transport means you can't use an act of faith?


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 MacPhail wrote:
Edit: just caught the post above... so no dice on Vanguard Doms. I guess a big squad with combi melta could try to hoof it off the line and protect their guns and Imagifier until they're in range.

I don't see his interpretation from the rules we have seen.

There's no indication that this blocks use of scout on the transport. If they are in a transport, they give it to their transport. It doesn't say anything about other units in the transport.

Also, where are you seeing that being in a transport means you can't use an act of faith?

From the Vanguard rule: "If all of the models embarked on a transport vehicle have this ability, then the transport vehicle can make this move instead." The Imagifier does not have this rule, and so the Immolator (or Rhino) on which the Dominions is embarked cannot make the Vanguard move.

As for using Acts of Faith while embarked, I believe the main rule book prohibits using any abilities while embarked, unless specified otherwise in the codex. Acts of Faith are not specified as allowed while embarked, so they are not.

I just hope Repressors aren't pointed so high they aren't worthwhile. The Exorcist jumped 22%, 125 to 160, the Rhino 43%, 40 to 70, odds are the Repressor will jump from 75 to 100-110 range. However, the thought of a Repressor with 8 firing points with 2x 5 man dominion squads with 8 meltas firing from it does make me giggle with delight.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
The Imperial Guard gets the same ability via First Rank Fire! Second Rank Fire!, and strictly better.

According to their faction focus, First Rank Fire! Second Rank Fire! just effects their lasguns, not their special weapons or heavy weapons.

 pretre wrote:

There's no indication that this blocks use of scout on the transport. If they are in a transport, they give it to their transport. It doesn't say anything about other units in the transport.

It's on their datasheet, the transport they're embarked in only gets to make a vanguard move if all the models embarked on it have the vanguard ability. So technically you could put two 5 girl melta squads in a single rhino, to make a pretty cheap but very risky delivery platform.

 Hoboanarki wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
The Imperial Guard gets the same ability via First Rank Fire! Second Rank Fire!, and strictly better.

According to their faction focus, First Rank Fire! Second Rank Fire! just effects their lasguns, not their special weapons or heavy weapons.

 pretre wrote:

There's no indication that this blocks use of scout on the transport. If they are in a transport, they give it to their transport. It doesn't say anything about other units in the transport.

It's on their datasheet, the transport they're embarked in only gets to make a vanguard move if all the models embarked on it have the vanguard ability. So technically you could put two 5 girl melta squads in a single rhino, to make a pretty cheap but very risky delivery platform.

I know. But FRFSRF is still a strictly better power to enhance shooting: It happens after the unit has moved, allowing the Guardsmen to get optimum range for maximum effect, it can be done a whole lot of times in a turn automatically, compared to once a turn on a 2+ and additional times on a 4+ for 40 points, and because of the way Guardsmen work, it's drastically more efficient too at getting additional bullets. Combine that with the nerf to bolters and indirect buff to Lasguns, it's fairly simple to see why, even if Divine Guidance works on Meltaguns, FRFSRF is still a better power.

Just got a chance to browse the actual Imperium 2 books.

Points are pretty much on the dot with what was leaked on natfka.



Had a look at a few other things. Custodes, Inquisitors, some fortifications as well as sisters of silence.

I know. But FRFSRF is still a strictly better power to enhance shooting: It happens after the unit has moved, allowing the Guardsmen to get optimum range for maximum effect, it can be done a whole lot of times in a turn automatically, compared to once a turn on a 2+ and additional times on a 4+ for 40 points, and because of the way Guardsmen work, it's drastically more efficient too at getting additional bullets. Combine that with the nerf to bolters and indirect buff to Lasguns, it's fairly simple to see why, even if Divine Guidance works on Meltaguns, FRFSRF is still a better power.

Possibly a mere quibble, but "strictly better" generally means better in all situations, and FRFSRF is not better than Divine Guidance (because of, for example, its effect on meltaguns).

Banosby wrote:

From the Vanguard rule: "If all of the models embarked on a transport vehicle have this ability, then the transport vehicle can make this move instead." The Imagifier does not have this rule, and so the Immolator (or Rhino) on which the Dominions is embarked cannot make the Vanguard move.

As for using Acts of Faith while embarked, I believe the main rule book prohibits using any abilities while embarked, unless specified otherwise in the codex. Acts of Faith are not specified as allowed while embarked, so they are not.

So noted! I missed that part. We will have to see on the embarked part.

Voldrak - thats amazing thx!

The 55pts for a pentent engine seems amazing - do you have to buy its weapons?

Banosby wrote:

I know. But FRFSRF is still a strictly better power to enhance shooting: It happens after the unit has moved, allowing the Guardsmen to get optimum range for maximum effect, it can be done a whole lot of times in a turn automatically, compared to once a turn on a 2+ and additional times on a 4+ for 40 points, and because of the way Guardsmen work, it's drastically more efficient too at getting additional bullets. Combine that with the nerf to bolters and indirect buff to Lasguns, it's fairly simple to see why, even if Divine Guidance works on Meltaguns, FRFSRF is still a better power.

Possibly a mere quibble, but "strictly better" generally means better in all situations, and FRFSRF is not better than Divine Guidance (because of, for example, its effect on meltaguns).

Okay, DG is specifically better in one instance: You have Meltaguns/Multimeltas, you're shooting them at a tank, you moved close enough to be shooting at the tank last turn, and the enemy didn't kill you or assault you with the tank in their turn..


Also, so when I buy my Exorcists for 160 points, I still have to pay for their Missile Launcher?

Bastions are also very interesting now. Did not take a picture of fortification points costs however it was around 100 points if I remember correctly.

T9 with 20 wounds. 3+ save.


20 models can embark and 10 of them can actually shoot out of it. It will be a very solid fire base.

Voldrak wrote:
Just got a chance to browse the actual Imperium 2 books.

Points are pretty much on the dot with what was leaked on natfka.

Spoiler:

Had a look at a few other things. Custodes, Inquisitors, some fortifications as well as sisters of silence.

Argh, you couldn't get the points for weapons?

Some weapons are free. Some are not. How this was all balanced is a little strange to be honest.

Exorcist is a 160 points unless you buy other weapons for it.

Weapon costs for those interested



Greyfax



Inquisition bonus and psychic powers:

Exorcist is free! Yeah.

so.. new penitent engine model with eviscerator option incoming?!

I'm guessing profile of penitent eviscerator is rather dissappointing c.f buzz blades?

You save so many points on the BSS< you might as well take an imagifer.

Yes.

BSS going from 12 points to 9 points a piece and no longer having to pay the 10 points more for the VSS is a massive boon.

180 points for a 20 sister squad is a bargain.


I think we are in a seriously good spot for this edition.

I was going to rant on the penitent engine earlier since its 129 points per model so almost 400 points for a full squad. Super expensive, but its 21 wounds at T6 and could honestly put some serious hurting on an imperial knight if they get to him.
I am painting 2 more right now to have a squad of 3 and will give a serious go this edition.

Is that little Telethesia set the only set for Inquisitors?

What powers does Coteaz/Ordo Malleus know?

I took a very bad picture on coteaz.



and Telethesia was indeed listed under the Inquisition psychic discipline. To clarify, its the only one they have.

Voldrak wrote:
I took a very bad picture on coteaz.

Spoiler:

and Telethesia was indeed listed under the Inquisition psychic discipline. To clarify, its the only one they have.

Damn.