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Hi all, I'm a recently rebooted Sororitas player learning the new edition. I've been playing on and off since RT, but the most recent hiatus has been 10 years, so the learning curve is steep. This thread has been exceptionally useful, especially the last several dozen pages since the digital codex met 7th edition. I built my first lists with your discussions in mind and would love any feedback anyone has to offer.
Here's the 1500 I took this evening in an 8-1 loss to Dark Eldar/Harlequins/Haemonculus Coven:
Doms x5, Melta x3, Simulacrum, Priest, MM Immo, Laud Hailer
Seraphs x10, Hand Flamers x2 (w/ Celestine)
Rets x10, Heavy Bolters x4, Simulacrum
Exorcist
Exorcist
It wasn't the most balanced or focused list, but I was eager to try both characters with their bodyguard units and as many unit types as I could squeeze into a game. The basic story went like this: I went first, scouted the Doms, and killed his Harlequin psyker; he got an Exorcist on each of the first turns. His Reserves arrived on turn 2 without issue. Doms got shot out of their transport and had to hunt for more targets. They eventually found the Haemonculus Coven, which they only got a couple of wounds into. Rets got castled up in a ruin and ran low on targets. Seraphs took down a skimmer but bogged down on the DE character inside, who was a match for Celestine. Foot mob and Jacobus got slowed down by a terrain squeeze and eventually took out a skimmer full of warriors. In the end we called it in Turn 5, he with 2 objectives and two dead Exos for the scenario VPs (Big Guns?), I with undamaged but isolated Rets, Jacobus and a third of his blob, and two melta Doms running for their lives.
My top moments were Ignoring Cover on that sneaky psyker for First Blood, rounding up the rest of the Harlequins, and getting the classic one-two punch: MM Immo pops a transport and Flamers from an adjacent squad finish the survivors. Biggest issues on my side: forgetting Acts of Faith and War Hymns half the time, some clutch rolls (failed AoF, failed Hit & Run), lack of fire discipline. Big things on his side: the Coven is a tough nut to crack, the skimmers full of Warriors put out a high volume of fire, and three rogue Harlequins take a while to track down.
Overall it was a great return to the hobby, but I got thoroughly trounced. I feel like I am redundant in some areas and could economize on Priests and Simulacra, but I was missing the Veteran Superiors in the game as far as LD and answering challenges. Not sure about squad loadouts, but I liked the melta Doms running ahead of a Rhino full of flamers... the 2000-point list I'm working on adds another of each of those. I'm also considering footslogging Troops, 3x Immo Doms, 3x Exos... I only have six Rhino hulls to work with.
Anyway, thanks for a great and informative thread so far... feedback and suggestions most welcome!
BlackTalos wrote: So, for the comments on the list (and yes, some extra Priests and Simulacra in there) i'll just colour code:
Green = perfect, no change
Orange = change needed
Red = probably best removed.
Perfect... Just what I needed. Thanks!
Yes, I actually rolled Celestine's only possible H&R failure... sometimes the dice betray you. The 3x melta Doms are just due to not having the models for 2 squads of 4, although I feel like three should be enough for most tasks, and maybe even that 4 is overkill?
Dumping priests and simulacra as you described frees quite a few points. If I really squeeze the troop count by dropping some Rets and Seraphs, I can clear enough for an extra Dom squad instead of another flame-spewing Rhino. I'm guessing that's the better option... or is that too few power-armored bodies? It's a 50-point difference between the two units, so 4 extra sisters could go somewhere. Here's the list with the extra Doms, no veterans, priests limited to the blob squad, and just 1 simulacrum with the Rets.
pretre wrote: Have you thought about getting a bastion?
I haven't really. Some people have mentioned the Aegis/Quad combo when I ask if Sisters are hopeless without fliers. The one group I'm trying get in with has quite a few fliers and I'm sure I'll encounter them at the FLGS. I'm not sure how either the Bastion or the Aegis functions in terms of gameplay beyond making a unit hard to shift and giving them some artillery.
What do you all equip Superiors/Veteran Superiors with? The default models have bolters, but I have a few empty-handed conversions I want to finish up that could get pistols. Does anybody do BP/CCW for a cheap extra attack, or is the extra 24" long shot/12" rapid fire more useful?
Does it differ in the Jacobus+Priests blob seeking out combat with all those War Hymn buffs or in the Dominions who are up close so quickly?
Got seriously destroyed tonight by a different DE army than last week. It sort of went wrong from the beginning when he seized the initiative on me and took out an Exorcist and an Immolator on Turn 1-- all my stuff was pretty exposed in the deployment. Dark Lances popped all my transports by Turn 2 and his jetbikes would run in, shoot about a million splinters at me, then assault-move away out of range. I ended up with a knot of power armor in the middle of the board that he just ground away at with splinter cannons... I got his Mandrakes (Doms), 2 units of Scourges (Rets), and some kind of Elites with his Warlord (Doms + blob), but I couldn't counter his mobility and ended Turn 3 with only an Exorcist, Celestine, and a unit of Dominions in a 1500-point kill point game.
I did enjoy having the extra Dominons and I didn't miss the extra Faith leverage from Simulacra and Priests... but then most of those units never had a chance to use theirs. I think losing the initiative was what turned this one into a rout, but this player was good and really knew his army. I'm struggling with the fact that the Immos have no Fire Points, so to really use Ignore Cover, you have to disembark, and the chance of mounting up again to go after a different target is slim. The Immo itself doesn't get the AoF, so against jink saves they just don't seem effective. The Doms should have been my answer to his jink saves, but they got stranded without transports in the middle of the board with nothing in range while he chewed at my flanks. A Sororitas army with no transports is slooooooooooooow.
Anyway, not to complain, just trying to contribute and of course looking for guidance. The game was fun, the opponent was a good guy, and I enjoy the shop and the staff... Games Workshop on Colorado Blvd. in Denver is one of the better ones I've been in. Very friendly and welcoming, except for the systematic trouncing of a guy with an army from the 90s.
PanzerLeader, nice job and great battle reports. Pretre, thanks for those links... I think Repressor conversions are pretty high on my list.
Does anyone get any use out of the formations in the Codex? In particular I'm looking at the Angelic Host. That's the only one I have the models for, but it seems like it might be advantageous in bigger games to have 3x Dominions and 2x Seraphim. Any experience? If so, how do you equip the second squad? I converted Inferno pistols years ago, but I also have enough hand flamers to go that way, and I have some Veteran Superior models to choose from.
I hadn't realized there was a distinction. So those Sisters formations are considered too powerful for regular play, but the Space Marine drop pod monstrosity that has whole threads devoted to it is just the direction the game has taken these days? That seems a little lopsided.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/06/28 21:13:26
In the current MSU approach, a 5-girl unit with flamer/heavy flamer and a bare bones Superior seems to be the preferred loadout. Are there others people have tried? In particular, to get more of my models out of the box and onto the table, and to stretch the points toward 2000, I could do some combo of the following units between 70 and 80 points each. The goal would be to force the opponent to either divide or over-commit his shooting phase or otherwise ignore a small threat at their own peril.
5-girl squad with multi melta (random low AP shot, home objective campers)
5-girl squad with 2x storm bolters and BSS w/ storm bolter (8 S4 shots at 24", almost a full squad's output)
2x random wandering priests with plasma guns (could also join squads headed for combat)
This would be in addition to mounted melta doms, mounted flame sisters, HB rets, and Celestine + seraphim.
Are knights any good? They look good, but I am afraid they are too many pts in one place.
Sorry if it is bad to cross post.
The conversation in this post turned at one point toward a Canoness in the primary detachment and Celestine in a secondary in order to extend Fast choices. How does this work in 7th? I thought additional detachments had to be from a different force than your primary. I could get quite a bit more out of my army if I could run Jacobus, big footslogging squads, Dominions, and Retributors/Exorcists in one army, and then add Celestine, a small Troop, and 1-2 units of Seraphim in another. What are the 7th ed. restrictions on this in terms of list, game, and tournament types? Does it change how Warlords function?
PanzerLeader wrote: So the Allied Detachment (a specific detachment type) has to come from a different faction than your primary detachment. The primary detachment is determined based on the detachment your warlord is in. There are no detachment limits in 7th. So you can have as many detachments as you want so long as you don't go over the points cap and meet the minimum for each detachment. It is totally legit to build an army consisting of multiple CADs from the same faction.
So the real difference is that Allied Detachments have fewer Troop minimums (1xHQ, 1xTroop) than a second CAD (1xHQ, 2xTroop)? Do Allies not have ObSec and CADs do? And is that only CADs that match your primary faction, or do a bunch of assorted CADs get ObSec even if they aren't Battle Brothers (or whatever they're calling it now)?
Sorry I'm so fuzzy on this... I haven't played against people who run anything but a single CAD plus some devastating Formations. Thanks for clarifying!
I owe you all a high-five... Got a win tonight after an 0-3 start to my Sisters Renaissance. The game was against the same guy who trounced me a few weeks ago with his Dark Eldar, but tonight he brought Khorne Demonkin. We played a 1500 point Maelstrom mission that gives you mission cards based on the number of objectives you hold each turn.
My army: Jacobus, 2 blobs of 15 sisters with F/HF and 2 priests each (one squad got the Litanies, the other had a power maul), 3 Dominions with 3x meltas in MM Immos, 2 Exorcists, and HB Rets with simulacrum.
His army: 2 squads of cultists, a herald, a chaos lord, a squad of berserkers, a squad of possessed, a squad of marines, a squad of terminators, and two dread type things with TL auto cannons and missile launchers.
I had first turn and got the Dominions right up in his face. His termis scattered into a mishap and I got to place them in a distant corner, and his possessed had a terrible time with terrain rolls, but other than that the dice were equitable. He didn't have much anti armor, so after I smoked the two dreds my Immos had free reign. Jacobus was meant to wedge between the two units of 15 to share the banner bonus, but those squads saw little action beyond hustling for a couple turns and holding objectives. The Immos and Exos were predictably rough on his power armor. The Doms not only didn't get wiped out, they ended up getting most of my objective points. The Rets didn't do anything remarkable despite using both Acts and having plenty of targets every turn.
He had enough blood points to summon a bloodthirster on turn 4, but by that time he had only the distant termis, three marines, and his lord, who he gave up to place the bloodthirster. I had only lost an Immo and one squad of Doms by that point, and even though the thirster wiped out the Rets, he would have been targeted by both Exos and both remaining Immos on turn 5. We called it at the end of turn 4, with me winning 6-2.
So, 1-3 going forward, with a 2000 point game in a couple of weeks. Thanks again for all the advice!
On the subject of priests... I am having trouble getting good value out of mine. I have been running two (one with Litanies, one with Power Maul) with Jacobus in a blob of 15-20. They tend to go up the middle to restrict enemy movement in the center, grab objectives, and draw fire away from the Dominions. They often get strafed by flyers arriving on turn 2+ or get shot up by high RoF units, but rarely get wiped out. They usually get bogged down in difficult terrain or slowed by a tight squeeze because of their size. They have yet to end up in an assault and the priests never use their wargear or their Hymns. I'm thinking about pulling a priest out to send up with either a Dominion squad with meltas in an Immolator or with a Sisters squad with Flamer/HF in a Rhino just because those units see way more action thanks to their transports. If I try this, how can I equip a priest to do some good at the point of contact?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/07/22 15:27:20
Quick battle report on tonight's game: 2000 points vs. Chaos Marines/Daemons. We played a Maelstrom with night fighting, and he had the first turn. He had 4x Rhino-mounted Plague Marines, two troops choices that hid in the backfield and summoned as L2 psykers (Tzeentch horrors maybe?-- I never got to them), an L4 demon prince that flew around summoning more stuff, a Chaos Lord, autocannon Havocs, 2x Obliterators, and a Heldrake. I ran Jacobus w/ foot blob, a BSS w/ F/HF in a Rhino, 3x Immo Doms with 3x melta, 2x Exos, HB Rets, Celestine, 2x Seraphim, and two minimum BSS to cover the second CAD.
He spread out across the board and I Outflanked 2 of the 3 Doms who arrived on Turn 2 and 3. He managed to summon 400 extra points worth of daemons over 4 turns (and I denied a few more). Flamers and massed bolters were key here... not a single daemon ever made it into assault (thank goodness). His Havocs were fairly useless, and his Obliterators, his Lord, and squad of Plague Marines spent most of the game grinding away at the blob. Those priests DID earn their keep this time, although I'm still not sure about the Maul. Neither Warlord went down, and we figured out that it was evenly committed at about 450 points per side in that 3-turn combat.
Plague marines are tough; four Rhinos full of them are REALLY tough. I eventually took down 2 squads with Rending HBs and melta Doms and chewed up the other 2 in some tedious multi-turn assaults. I was pretty pleased to take out his Heldrake with 2 turns of snap shots from the 2 Exos; they had few targets after the assaults began and dropping a Flyer got me a well-timed VP. Shockingly, I ended with all 6 vehicles with all their Hull Points intact... not a scratch! The Seraphim did well, both with and without Celestine, mainly flaming daemons in the open and marines in cover.
The game ended in a 9-5 victory for me, called on Turn 4 due to time (our host's 10x10 Dark Angels with free transports had been taken down by combined Tau/Eldar with tons of D weapons). Objectives went slightly my way, the dice gods were even-handed, and mistakes were made on both sides. Takeaways: Flamers are SO sweet for keeping daemons out of your face, high volume shooting is pretty workable vs. high T troops, those minimized "troop tax" BSS units were great in terms of objective coverage, snap shots against flyers can work, but only if you can afford to saturate the target, Laud Hailers may be some of the better points I spent, and did I mention, FLAME EVERYTHING!
My opponent was a little shocked that my 1990s-era army with a not-quite-up-to-speed Codex shut down his summoning, burned all his daemons, chewed through his T5 Marines, and dropped his Flyer without any actual Skyfire weapons. This game brings me to 2-1-2 after 3 editions off. Pretty stoked on the revived sisters, so again, thanks to all here for the help!
Jancoran-- Can you say a little more about using the 4x HF Rets? I am in the process of acquiring the models to try it and I'm curious how you use them, deploy them, accompany them up the board, and which targets you find most/least validating.
PanzerLeader-- Similarly, can you expand on you Inquisitor/Servo Skulls package? I have some Inquisition models from way back, some Stormtroopers and a Chimera, no skulls, but some Assassins... I'd like to start toying with allied Inquisition stuff. What's the leverage you get with the skulls?
War Kitten-- I know a guy selling about 1500 worth of Sisters, base-coated black. Not the most optimized selections for this edition's meta, but a good starting point for an army, maybe $700+ at retail that he'll probably price at half that.
Sorry for the delay... thanks for great comments, Jancoran and PanzerLeader!
I took 2000 points against Ultramarines yesterday and did well. I did try the Heavy Flamer Rets in a Rhino and sent them after his Centurions thinking to force lots of saves, but he had them on all 3 levels of a building which weakened the templates (that may be a house rule-- templates affect only one level of a structure). They should have had a different target... maybe hold them in the rear or in cover as a counter against deep strikers.
He had Calgar, 1 Tac with a Rhino and Cypher, Scout Snipers, Drop Pod Sternguard, Drop Pod Ironclad Dred, GravCents, a Thunderfire Cannon, Legion of the Damned, and a Vindicare.
I had Uriah w/ 20-strong BSS, a 10-strong BSS, 3x Melta Doms in Immos, 2x Exos, the HF Rets in Rhino, 2x 5-strong BSS squads for objective management, Celestine, and 2x Seraphim.
We played the Maelstrom mission with decreasing objectives and I went first. I actually had some terrible rolling and some lazy errors: the Doms failed to Ignore the enhanced cover on the Centurions, giving 3+ cover saves against all the melta; the Seraphim failed to Shred until late in the game and the Rets failed to Rend at all (even with 3 Laud Hailers!); I forgot Uriah's enhanced saves for the big squad. I also failed to deploy the 10 BSS... I had stolen their Rhino to give the HF Rets a ride to the battle, but forgot to actually dismount them out of the case to footslog it... they came on with my turn 3 reserves. I also reserved 1 Immo with Doms, but on that diagonal battlefield, they didn't have a great chance to flank anything (I rolled my own short edge).
I poured a lot of fire into the Centurions (on the advice of a Chaos player who had faced this army before), but they soaked it up all game and I never did get the last one. The Doms and Seraphim on one flank got Cypher and the Tac squad; he dropped his Sternguard behind me, but Uriah's big blob wore them down; his Dred and the empty upgraded Drop Pods did quite a bit of damage to my backfield, including an Exo, but never claimed any objectives; his GravCents and Thunderfire Cannon took down Doms and Rets midfield; the other Seraphim got the Assassin, and my reserve Doms just grabbed objectives.
At the end, he had Calgar, one Centurion, half his Legion, a couple of Sternguard, the Dred, Scouts, and his Thunderfire Cannon; I had the remnants of three squads, 1 Immo (he popped the other 5 hulls), Uriah and a priest, and Celestine (take 2). We called it after turn 4 before it turned into me running away to avoid being tabled by the Thunderfire Cannon-- I had 10 points to his 2. I ultimately won it despite many errors and dreadful AoF rolls due to having more units on the board early when there were lots of scorable objectives, and then being more mobile late in the game when the objectives started to wear thin. He held 2 objectives all game, but I danced around the other 4 as the cards dictated. He had me outgunned and probably would have tabled me if it had gone beyond turn 5.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/11/22 16:36:39
I place all my objectives close to the edges to split him up and get some use out of my dominions outflanking.
Brilliant. Why do I not think of these things? I often place one or more in cover so my HB Rets can camp it, and I like having a couple of 60-point minimum BSS squads to do the same with inconveniently located objectives far from the action, but I think you're on to something.
For what it's worth, I brought this up at my GW store last week.
The staffer said it wasn't a terrible sign... if there is a release on the calendar, including way down the line, they make an effort to deplete stock on hand. They don't want to have to eat whatever they couldn't sell through, so they're letting it dwindle; that's why they didn't recast the whole line of multiple poses last time around, just the minimum models to build an army. He figured if they are relaunching the old models in plastic, it would probably require new molds to be made (the others are 20+ years old). If there are new models in the pipeline, they'll want to launch them to an empty shelf if they can sell through what they've got, and it will need to be timed with other releases.
He said philosophically they don't intend to repeat what they did with the Squats (of course, they are a business-- anything could happen, bottom line, etc.), and emphasized that the mention in the recent Blood Angels canon is a very good sign. His inference is that they are on the development calendar somewhere in the future. He wouldn't go so far as to say versatile plastics, flyers, formations, etc... but that would be the trend. Not sure what to make of it all, but I'll keep playing them. I've got about 2000 points with a winning record and a lot of work to do on them, so I'll just keep painting and dispensing the Emperor's justice until something changes.
I'm trying to get my head around unit matchups and target priority and I think the Sororitas threadizens here can help. Since most of our lists are built around some pretty common core units, I'm interested to survey the players gathered here.
I find that there's a threshold where my confidence expires in committing a certain unit to a certain task. I think I know the basics... flame templates vs. open-topped or anything jinking, meltas vs. medium armor and MEQ/TEQ, etc. I think a great example is a recent game where I sent my melta Dominions against a unit of Centurions in cover. My opponent's reputation in our group was essentially "watch out for his grav-cents" and I'd never faced them before, so I sent what I thought was my toughest unit, my scouting melta Doms. But because the target was T5 with 2 wounds, I couldn't auto-kill them with S8 melta, and he snuffed my Doms and their transport before they took a single model off the board. Looking back, I maybe should have tried to grind those wounds off from a distance with Exorcists instead, or just abandon that objective and try to stay out of range. I find myself in similar situations regularly as a newer player... I don't make the right call as to where to commit my strength.
So I'm hoping people can help me create a rough sketch of "what goes where." What's the point of diminishing returns in terms of melta vs. AV? Do I always send melta Doms after AV12, but ignore AV 14 in favor of something more attainable? At what point should Exorcists target infantry instead of vehicles? How do MCs/GMCs fit into the equation? What about Acts of Faith and when (shooting vs. assault, at what range) to use them? What's the utility of Rending and Shred when it comes to Rets and Seraphim respectively?
My list is fairly predictable: F/HFBSS Rhino squads with lots of bolter shots. Melta Doms in MM Immos. HB Rets with Simulacrum. Seraphim with hand flamers and Celestine. Multiple Exorcists. Occasionally a Jacobus foot blob or a unit of HF Rets in a Rhino.
My opponents are most commonly Marines / Chaos Marines + Demons, followed by Tyranids, Eldar/Dark Eldar, and Tau, all with pretty conventional all-comers builds. Our group doesn't have Orks or Guard at the moment.
I'm hoping to craft some basic guidelines along the line of "against Army A, I send Unit X against Unit Y, unless they are absent or in cover, in which case I look for Unit Z or grab an objective." I know it isn't that simple and the answer is always "it depends," but when facing an unfamiliar force (Tyranids are essentially a mystery to me), I want to have at least a vague starting point. Thanks!
Your problem wasn't WHAT you brought. It was how many. We are an army without plasma so that is the reality.
That makes good sense. I do tend to run 2-3 Doms and 2 Exos... I feel like my collection is best suited for 1500, but we usually play 2k. I'm planning to add a White Scars grav biker contingent to add some speed and punch. This might be the best way ultimately to deal with Centurions. EDIT: I just posted this army list in the thread where I was getting some good advice on balancing the two forces: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/676644.page
I want to adapt a list for when my turn against the Tyranids comes up, but I'm not even sure what's called for. I know going after synapse is good, but beyond that I'm not sure if I should be hunting MCs with melta or flaming little bugs. Tau and Eldar are even more cryptic...
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/02/07 19:05:36
Alright, so I've drawn a Tau opponent for my 2000 point game this weekend. I'm not sure what his army looks like exactly... my first time against Tau this edition, and my first game against this opponent (he's known to me as a guy who fields a tough army, is up on his rules, doesn't pull his punches, and is a fair-minded and good-natured opponent). I know his army is pretty up-to-date, he's got the new Tau books, and I've seen plenty of suits across the room during other games (but not, I think, the big Lord of War suit).
This will also be my first game integrating White Scars grav bikers with my Sisters. I got some solid advice in another thread on this forum on that build:
Any general advice on fighting Tau? I know to try to identify and eliminate marker lights and to try to get into melee if it doesn't mean getting destroyed by overwatch. Any thoughts on the juiciest targets for melta and grav with ignore cover, and whether better to scout or outflank? Do I want to hit & run on my turn even if it means more overwatch, or just stay stuck in? If I draw second turn, should I use scout moves to advance or grab cover? Which units or guns should I absolutely try to steer clear of? And do I want a terrain heavy table, or at least some dense avenues of approach to block his LoS at range?
Great advice! Sounds like if I get to go first, I scout across the table and go after his suits with melta and grav, but if I go second I use my scout moves to grab some LoS blocking positions and wait. If he's loaded up on early warning, I should limit my reserves and scout everything instead, but if he doesn't, I should carefully outflank some melta Doms or grav bikers to get at those long range suits.
Sounds like I shouldn't assault unless it's an obvious target isolated from the rest of his force based on the overwatch support, but if I do charge, H&R is less enticing than usual. I was thinking that getting into assault after a turn or two of short-range shooting would save me from being outranged and shot to pieces from across the table, but maybe that isn't the case?
Thanks for giving me specific upgrades to watch for... I'll study up on Tau suit varieties. Any formations I should anticipate? There was a lot of chatter about a stealth cadre when those new books were released, but I don't know which formations actually proved themselves.
Quick battle report on the Tau matchup this weekend: Purge the Alien on a Dawn of War board resulted in a 9-4 loss, but I'm taking it as more of a draw because we only made it 3 turns and my opponent was genuinely distressed at the prospect of a 4th. It was 6-4 on kill points, but he got First Blood, Slay the Warlord (Khan was right up in his face) and Linebreaker (with his late-arriving Flyer).
My Army is posted above, Sisters + White Scars. His army, best I can remember: Aun'va w/ a bodyguard that includes a Crisis and some other dudes, Shadownsun with dual fusion attached to a unit of Pathfinders, a big Sniper Drone unit, a Fire Warrior squad with an attached IC, 2 squads of Kroot infiltrators, 2 Piranhas with fusion, a Riptide with burst cannon, 3 Broadsides with railguns and an attached IC in a Crisis suit with a bunch of drones, a Hammerhead with railgun, and a SunShark bomber. His basic design was that between the attached ICs and the buff bubbles, he was firing 3 (sometimes 4) times with each Fire Warrior, Kroot, and Sniper Drone, depending on range. He typically dropped 40-60 dice for each unit's shooting, including overwatch, forcing a ton of saves.
He went first and deployed on the slightly more dense side of the table, with lots of 3-story ruins. He stacked Sniper Drones and Pathfinders on the upper levels, Fire Warriors and Piranhas to one side, Broadsides to the other, with the Riptide and Hammerhead in the center. Kroot were strung out in two lines in front. He had some interceptor, but not a ton, so I reserved a squad of grav bikers and an Immolator Dom squad. I loaded the rest of my deployment heavily on his left flank with the Fire Warriors and Piranhas, hoping to get there quickly and turn the flank while avoiding the bigger suits. I failed to seize, so I used my scout moves to advance a little, but focused on limiting his LoS.
He took hull points off the Exorcists at range with the Hammerhead, but nothing else could punch their front armor, and the Doms got the Hammerhead before it could finish the job. If we'd played more turns, the Exos would have had near-immunity and would have finished doubling out the Broadsides. The Doms, both the ones I scouted and the ones I outflanked, survived the whole game; they got the Hammerhead and both Piranhas, and one group even hopped back in their immobilized ride to deny kill points because my opponent was really struggling with popping my tanks. The BSS Rhino got hung up in a choke point behind an immobilized Piranha. The Rhino Rets made it to the far side and took out some of the Fire Warriors with their Heavy Flamers, but didn't survive overwatch to get in to combat. All in all, the rush of armor was more than he could easily deal with and I feel like I only needed one more turn to get well into his lines.
The White Scars were interesting... they crossed the table more slowly than they might have because I tried to grab cover along the way, not for the saves, but to limit the number of incoming shots. The two small squads both got wiped out by the Broadsides before they could do anything, one as it crossed the table, and the other as it arrived from reserves (I gambled on interceptor and lost). The bike command squad with Khan and the Librarian soaked up the first turn of regular shooting from 5 units, plus more than 100 marker-enhanced overwatch shots, and only lost the 4 grav bikes... FNP is amaaaaazing. Khan, the Librarian, and the Apothecary swept a squad of Kroot, survived another full turn of regular fire from 3 units, and died to another 100+ shots in overwatch on my second turn. Had even one of them made it into combat with the Fire Warriors, they would have substantially reduced the amount of fire that tore up the approaching Sisters and it might have been a much different game.
Some other observations... I never jinked because he never almost denied my armor saves; only a few precision shots from the Sniper Drones did so. What got me was the volume of saves he was able to force. His squad of 13 Fire Warriors with their attached IC and the 12" buff from Aun'Va laid down 52 S5 shots against my T5 bikes, and only FNP got me across the table. Sniper Drones did the same with 36 shots at even longer range. Looking back, I shouldn't have bothered seeking cover or LoS blocking, and I shouldn't have reserved anything. Everything should have blitzed full speed: Scout + Move + Turbo-Boost/Flat Out, despite having second turn. This would have put more units in charge distance for turn 2 so the grav command wouldn't have to soak hundreds of shots by themselves. I was worried about giving up grav gun shots at full BS by jinking and went looking for cover to avoid it, but I never should have hoped to shoot them in turn 1 in the first place; they should have been sprinting for the end zone and forcing him to divide his fire or prioritize certain targets.
Thoughts on the army list... I won't take Celestine again; getting her in a T5 squad would have been nice, but she can't keep up if the bikers make a scout move, so she got left behind (although she eventually assaulted the Sniper Drones, but didn't have time to finished them). Better that her points go for extra bikes. My backfield objective campers had no objectives to camp, but the extra 15 points worth of storm bolters starting mowing down Kroot at 24", and they didn't give up a VP, so I think they might have earned their points in later turns. I think I'm in the market for more Rhino hulls and more bikes; his biggest issue was forcing saves on T5 bikes and trying to pop lots of AV13 and AV11 armor with a 6+ save. If I'd moved a little faster and more boldly, I'd have gotten close enough to disrupt his supporting overwatch.
Anyway, thanks for the excellent advice. My opponent said I'd put the fear into him and gotten deeper into his lines than anyone, and he's undefeated in his last several games in our group.
Cool, so my mistake there. The last thing I read was about how Khan gives scout to White Scars models on bikes or in transports, and it sunk in that she was excluded. She would have been able to tank some wounds on her 2+ and dish out some hurt in assault; they definitely would have survived overwatch to make their second assault. Noted for next time! I also screwed up movements on some transports, not moving far enough on scout/flatout moves. Between all of those, I should be able to tighten up the rush quite a bit for my next game.
A TFC would need to dislodge something, maybe Jacobus now that I've seen the need to test Celestine with the bikers again. I could also run my Exorcists as Whirlwinds with the Suppression Force and leave the S8 to the scouting Doms. Also, I'd need to acquire the model.
Yep, I can use a couple of old-style Rhinos to get me there for now... I'm going to add to my Rhino motor pool at some point. Six hulls go out pretty much every game and I always wish for one more. I built turrets to run up to 4 Immolators and 3 Missile-somethings (Exorcists, Whirlwinds). I just need a few more hulls, and I'm going to want extras for some Rhinos/Razorbacks to share with the White Scars. Eventually I want 9 white Rhinos with doors, top plates, and turrets of both colors to share between Sisters and White Scars.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/02/22 14:39:41
They are less troublesome now that I've learned to leave a unit back to protect the Exos on the back line. Before I made that change I was getting drop Dreds autocannoning my Exos into smoking wrecks on Turn 2. The other pain was getting a Dred charging into the back of my Sisters blob before they could advance to camp a midfield objective, sort of a reverse tarpit. We play pretty terrain heavy tables and they'd be not quite done squeezing through a bottleneck when the Dred would reel them in. A much lesser issue is that I can no longer leave minimized units to camp backfield objectives, sucking up valuable points from the speartip of melty flamey Imperial justice.
A recent pure Sisters list at 2k was 2 CADs: Jacobus, 20-strong blob, F/HF foot squad, 3x melta doms in Immos, 2x Exos, and HF Rets in a Rhino, plus Celestine, 2x min squads, and 2 units of flamer Seraphim. The blob slogs its way to an objective, the HF Rets Rhino advances to mop up behind the Doms, Seraphim harass soft spots and clear objectives, Exos sit back and try to deal with major threats. I've been holding back Immo Doms or the F/HF foot patrol depending on whether I expect Dreds or Sternguard in the pods. There are a few different versions of this list (single CAD, no Seraphim, no blob, etc.), and for the next overhaul I'm going to pick up a few more Rhinos to mount up the whole army to better protect the infantry. To be honest, I've been adding in White Scars of late rather than refining the pure list to better deal with drop armies-- bikes can quickly return from the front to deal with backfield threats and reclaim lost objectives.
Quick battle report on my weekend matchup: I played pure Sisters against Necrons, my first time facing a Decurion. It was an 11-14 loss, but one that I'm still happy with tactically, as this is one of our club's better players running an army with a fearsome reputation.
He ran an almost all-gauss army, and I think a pretty typical Decurion (though I wouldn't know): Overlord with Command Barge, 4 units of Warriors, 2 Ghost Arks, Immortals, Tomb Blades, a Monolith, 2 Doom Scythes, and the formation that buffs 2 units of Praetorians with a Triarch Stalker (lots of rerolls). I ran 2 CADS: Jacobus, 2x F/HF Sisters in Rhinos, 3x melta Doms in MM Immos, 2x Exos, and HF Rets in a Rhino, plus Celestine, 2x small Sisters squads in the backfield, 2x flamer Seraphim, and HB Rets.
We played the mission with progressively fewer objective cards on a fairly dense Dawn of War board. He deployed first, so I set up Immo Doms, HF Rets, and both Exos to the left opposite his Praetorians and Triarch formation, 2 more Immo Doms centrally opposite his Monolith and Ghost Arks, and the two F/HF Rhino squads on the right opposite his Immortals and Tomb Blades. My 2 small squads of Sisters held backfield objectives and I reserved the Seraphim and Celestine.
I managed to seize the initiative, something that has happened to this Necron player in the last three games, all of which he still won. Not sure if that points to his skill as a player, the strength of his army, or critical errors on the part of his opponent trying to exploit it. Probably all three.
On my left flank, the Immo Doms and 2 Exos ground down the Praetorians over 2 turns. That flank was a little overloaded so the HF Rets in their Rhino with Jacobus shifted toward the center to eventually burn some Warriors and score an objective before getting gaussed to death. In the center the other 2 Immos, having scouted hard, unloaded their meltas on the doorstep and took out the Monolith, with one of them surviving to hide in some ruins, score an objective, and take out the Triarch Stalker in turn 3. On the right flank, my two F/HF Rhinos advanced to take on the Tomb Blades, but with limited success; they then failed to dislodge the Immortals from an objective and got ground down by massed gauss fire. The small backfield squads claimed some objective VPs early, then went down to long-range fire as the Warriors advanced. The Seraphim DSed in on turns 2 and 3; one grabbed an objected on my side of the board that had lost it's campers early and the other, with Celestine landed in his backfield and took out the Overlord after a tedious multi-turn melee. His Doom Scythes circled the battlefield, got 1 Exorcist, 3 transports, and shot up various squads.
The game ended with 4 full squads of Warriors and both Ghost Arks firmly holding the center (he'd been repairing them as fast as I killed them), half his Tomb Blades and his Immortals holding two flank objectives, and only my remaining Exo and the HB Rets hiding in a corner. The ended on turn 5, and he'd have very likely tabled me on turn 6. An 11-14 loss despite having seized on him doesn't feel great, but given the reputation of the army and the player, I'll take it, and he noted that he hadn't expected that tough a fight from me or my army. But I really wanted to hand him his first defeat... did I mention he's undefeated with Necrons?
So, thoughts and questions:
Necrons are damned hard to take off the board... How does Jake's WT only give a 5+ invul to a single squad and Necrons get army-wide 4+ RP? Doesn't quite seem balanced.
I ignored Ghost Arks and Warriors to focus on Praetorians (everyone in our club talks about how nasty they are), but I may have over-committed by deploying both Exos on that flank.
Had I made slightly different moves with Doms on Turn 1, I could have taken out his Ghost Arks (which fixed every single Warrior I killed) instead of the Monolith... did I fall for a distraction Carnifex there?
Once I realized how Quantum Shielding works, I wished I'd spread the melta around a bit more to get the AVs down to where Exo missles and maybe even HBs could do some good.
The F/HF Rhino squads were the wrong thing to send after the Tomb Blades... I was thinking of them as jetbikes, flimsy and jinky, but they are more like Marine bikes, with a base 3+ and T5, and I wished I'd had an Exorcist on that side of the board.
Ignoring the Warriors and Ghost Arks resulted in so much rapid-fire gauss output, he went very quickly through all my transports and then through the squads they contained.
The Tomb Blades and Immortals showed the potency of S5 shooting against T3 infantry, power armor or no.
Finally, 2 flyers are hard to ignore... I'm the only non-flyer-non-superheavy army at our club, and my opponents always check before bringing them against me. I have always said yes to single knights and flyers and tried to win on the ground with objectives, but I may turn down the offer to face 2 Doom Scythes again... do those S10 Death Rays really have a 360-degree fire arc?
Anyway, I think we made a good stand and the Sisters are getting the reputation of an army that puts up a good fight. I'm happy with the close game, but I'd love advice on how to put the next on in the win column. Comments and condolences welcome!
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/04/24 19:33:44
Jancoran-- I think you're dead-on about ObSec... I maybe should have used my mobility as much to challenge his claims on objectives as to engage his forces. Not sure how it would have played out if I had tried to take down the Arks and his Warrior blob, but we will meet again, I'm sure. You'll be glad to know there are 3 more Marine Razorbacks on the way this month to do double duty as Sisters Rhinos... bring my total to 9. When they come I'll put together a list that drops Celestine and the Seraphim in exchange for a Canoness and mounting up those squads from the second CAD, maybe even squeeze in another HF Retributer unit. Whatever I do for units, I should be able to send 1-2 hulls against every objective, some of them with ObSec units of my own. When going against non-ObSec armies, especially tough ones like Necrons, do you add extra Troops choices in order to claim objectives without clearing them first, or do you go with minimum Troops selections?
Drider-- I had been trying to cook up an Inquisition unit to be an asset in the Shooting phase, but couldn't make the points add up advantageously. I know people have had luck with the Assault Inquisitor, but your idea about the Psychic phase is food for thought. I actually did Snap Shot an Exorcist at his Doom Scythes at one point when the game was nearly over and there were no other targets, got two hits, but couldn't Pen the temporary AV13 thing all his vehicles had. Let us know if you give the Prescience mob a try, and I'll do the same.
