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Hey guys, in general, why don't we see more of the sisters CC units (like repentia, command squad with power weapons, assassin units)?

9p

Because we have no effective way of getting them into combat. The only fast moving units we have are Rhinos, and trying to use CC units out of them is an exercise in frustration - not to say its impossible, but its far from ideal.

At best you can ally in Land Raiders, but if you're going into Inquisition or Space Marine Codexes to find the Raiders, you're probably just better off using Inquisition Warbands or Space Marine units anyway.

Yep. SOB units do far better buffing real assault units than fielding their own.

So there are a couple of problems with the melee units in the Sisters codex. First, they are very fragile. They come in low numbers (maximum ten), they are only T3, and they can't get a critical mass of good armor, invulnerable and feel no pain saves easily. Second, they don't hit very hard. Most start at S3 and can get boosted up to S4 or S5. This is ok, but not great. Wounding MEQs 50% of the time is hardly ideal. They also lack access to a decent density of melee weapons with AP3 or better so most of the time your opponent is still rolling armor saves. Those with lots of special weapons (repentia, death cult assassins) are especially fragile (T3, 6++/5++ respectively, low model count). Finally, they lack a good delivery system. You have to be exposed for a turn before charging unless you ally in an assault transport---at which point, you're better off allying in a better melee unit.

Yeah, our best melee unit is actually just our troops choice.

20 BSS + Priests, Celestine and Jacobus.

And then it's mostly just good as a tarpit/grinder.

Mavnas wrote:
Still Flesh Tearers detachment (Forget exact name) 1 HQ + 1 Troop to unlock up to 6 pods.

Name of the detachment is Flesh Tearers Strike Force from the Exterminatis book. I thulink the min point investment I just over 100pts (1 squad of scouts and a Sang Priest).

D

I am going to a tournament Saturday and I am trying to decide in a list.


http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/655797.page

Are knights any good? They look good, but I am afraid they are too many pts in one place.

Sorry if it is bad to cross post.

 SQRT(-2) wrote:
I am going to a tournament Saturday and I am trying to decide in a list.


http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/655797.page

Are knights any good? They look good, but I am afraid they are too many pts in one place.

Sorry if it is bad to cross post.

Knights are very good. You've got enough units to support him that I'd go ahead and play the knight list with the changes pretre suggested in your other thread.

 SQRT(-2) wrote:
I am going to a tournament Saturday and I am trying to decide in a list.


http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/655797.page

Are knights any good? They look good, but I am afraid they are too many pts in one place.

Sorry if it is bad to cross post.

The conversation in this post turned at one point toward a Canoness in the primary detachment and Celestine in a secondary in order to extend Fast choices. How does this work in 7th? I thought additional detachments had to be from a different force than your primary. I could get quite a bit more out of my army if I could run Jacobus, big footslogging squads, Dominions, and Retributors/Exorcists in one army, and then add Celestine, a small Troop, and 1-2 units of Seraphim in another. What are the 7th ed. restrictions on this in terms of list, game, and tournament types? Does it change how Warlords function?

MacPhail wrote:

 SQRT(-2) wrote:
I am going to a tournament Saturday and I am trying to decide in a list.


http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/655797.page

Are knights any good? They look good, but I am afraid they are too many pts in one place.

Sorry if it is bad to cross post.

The conversation in this post turned at one point toward a Canoness in the primary detachment and Celestine in a secondary in order to extend Fast choices. How does this work in 7th? I thought additional detachments had to be from a different force than your primary. I could get quite a bit more out of my army if I could run Jacobus, big footslogging squads, Dominions, and Retributors/Exorcists in one army, and then add Celestine, a small Troop, and 1-2 units of Seraphim in another. What are the 7th ed. restrictions on this in terms of list, game, and tournament types? Does it change how Warlords function?

So the Allied Detachment (a specific detachment type) has to come from a different faction than your primary detachment. The primary detachment is determined based on the detachment your warlord is in. There are no detachment limits in 7th. So you can have as many detachments as you want so long as you don't go over the points cap and meet the minimum for each detachment. It is totally legit to build an army consisting of multiple CADs from the same faction.

PanzerLeader wrote:
So the Allied Detachment (a specific detachment type) has to come from a different faction than your primary detachment. The primary detachment is determined based on the detachment your warlord is in. There are no detachment limits in 7th. So you can have as many detachments as you want so long as you don't go over the points cap and meet the minimum for each detachment. It is totally legit to build an army consisting of multiple CADs from the same faction.

So the real difference is that Allied Detachments have fewer Troop minimums (1xHQ, 1xTroop) than a second CAD (1xHQ, 2xTroop)? Do Allies not have ObSec and CADs do? And is that only CADs that match your primary faction, or do a bunch of assorted CADs get ObSec even if they aren't Battle Brothers (or whatever they're calling it now)?

Sorry I'm so fuzzy on this... I haven't played against people who run anything but a single CAD plus some devastating Formations. Thanks for clarifying!

Yes. No. No.

Allied Detachments have ObSec, yes. Every Detachment gets its benefits listed, regardless of the Alliance level from the Allies Matrix. Taking multiple CADs just lets you double up force org slots for your single faction, just like the rules in 6th Edition allowed you to do above 2000pts.

Allied detachments seem redundant now we can take multiple full FOCs of whatever we want (TO permitting). The only advantage is a smaller Troops "tax," but most factions Sisters would ally with -- except maybe Cult Mechanicus -- can take two cheap and useful Troop squads: IG Vets, Skitarri Vanguard, SM Scouts.

 SisterSydney wrote:
Allied detachments seem redundant now we can take multiple full FOCs of whatever we want (TO permitting). The only advantage is a smaller Troops "tax," but most factions Sisters would ally with -- except maybe Cult Mechanicus -- can take two cheap and useful Troop squads: IG Vets, Skitarri Vanguard, SM Scouts.

Nah, Allied detachments are still good precisely because you dont have as much troops tax. Sure an IG Vet squad might only be 60pts, but thats for 9 Lasguns and a Laspistol wearing Flak Armour which is not exactly going to achieve much. Once you start kitting them out so they are useful the price goes up. Only having to take 1 of those is a real help when points are tight.

 GoonBandito wrote:

 SisterSydney wrote:
Allied detachments seem redundant now we can take multiple full FOCs of whatever we want (TO permitting). The only advantage is a smaller Troops "tax," but most factions Sisters would ally with -- except maybe Cult Mechanicus -- can take two cheap and useful Troop squads: IG Vets, Skitarri Vanguard, SM Scouts.

Nah, Allied detachments are still good precisely because you dont have as much troops tax. Sure an IG Vet squad might only be 60pts, but thats for 9 Lasguns and a Laspistol wearing Flak Armour which is not exactly going to achieve much. Once you start kitting them out so they are useful the price goes up. Only having to take 1 of those is a real help when points are tight.

Or if you only want like 120 guardsmen, there's no point in taking the full CAD (You can still get 2 50 man blobs in a single troops choice.)

MacPhail wrote:

PanzerLeader wrote:
So the Allied Detachment (a specific detachment type) has to come from a different faction than your primary detachment. The primary detachment is determined based on the detachment your warlord is in. There are no detachment limits in 7th. So you can have as many detachments as you want so long as you don't go over the points cap and meet the minimum for each detachment. It is totally legit to build an army consisting of multiple CADs from the same faction.

So the real difference is that Allied Detachments have fewer Troop minimums (1xHQ, 1xTroop) than a second CAD (1xHQ, 2xTroop)? Do Allies not have ObSec and CADs do? And is that only CADs that match your primary faction, or do a bunch of assorted CADs get ObSec even if they aren't Battle Brothers (or whatever they're calling it now)?

Sorry I'm so fuzzy on this... I haven't played against people who run anything but a single CAD plus some devastating Formations. Thanks for clarifying!

Allied Detachments have ObSec on Troops.

CADs can come from any faction. All Troops in a CAD (regardless of faction) get ObSec.

So you could run an army with 2 CADs and 2 Allied Detachments (as an example) and the only faction restriction would be that neither Allied Detachment could have the same faction as the CAD with your Warlord in it. So if you ran a SOB CAD (primary) you could then run a Marine CAD, Marine Allied Detachment and Necron Allied Detachment and have a legal, battle forged army.

Guys, where can I find the up to date Repressor rules?

I'm not understanding how the Imperial Armor books work. IA1, IA2, etc are versions? Or do they contain different information and themselves have versions?

IA2 Second Edition.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
IA1 and IA2 are different books.

"Imperial Armour Volume 2, Second Edition: War Machines of the Adeptus Astartes". Specifically, this one. Imperial Armour 1 has all the Imperial Guard tanks in it, where Imperial Armour 2 has the Space Marine stuff with a little bit of Inquisition and Sisters of Battle stuff.

Thanks, and is there an errata for it?

ninepaces wrote:
Thanks, and is there an errata for it?

Not for the repressor.

I owe you all a high-five... Got a win tonight after an 0-3 start to my Sisters Renaissance. The game was against the same guy who trounced me a few weeks ago with his Dark Eldar, but tonight he brought Khorne Demonkin. We played a 1500 point Maelstrom mission that gives you mission cards based on the number of objectives you hold each turn.

My army: Jacobus, 2 blobs of 15 sisters with F/HF and 2 priests each (one squad got the Litanies, the other had a power maul), 3 Dominions with 3x meltas in MM Immos, 2 Exorcists, and HB Rets with simulacrum.

His army: 2 squads of cultists, a herald, a chaos lord, a squad of berserkers, a squad of possessed, a squad of marines, a squad of terminators, and two dread type things with TL auto cannons and missile launchers.

I had first turn and got the Dominions right up in his face. His termis scattered into a mishap and I got to place them in a distant corner, and his possessed had a terrible time with terrain rolls, but other than that the dice were equitable. He didn't have much anti armor, so after I smoked the two dreds my Immos had free reign. Jacobus was meant to wedge between the two units of 15 to share the banner bonus, but those squads saw little action beyond hustling for a couple turns and holding objectives. The Immos and Exos were predictably rough on his power armor. The Doms not only didn't get wiped out, they ended up getting most of my objective points. The Rets didn't do anything remarkable despite using both Acts and having plenty of targets every turn.

He had enough blood points to summon a bloodthirster on turn 4, but by that time he had only the distant termis, three marines, and his lord, who he gave up to place the bloodthirster. I had only lost an Immo and one squad of Doms by that point, and even though the thirster wiped out the Rets, he would have been targeted by both Exos and both remaining Immos on turn 5. We called it at the end of turn 4, with me winning 6-2.

So, 1-3 going forward, with a 2000 point game in a couple of weeks. Thanks again for all the advice!

Keep at it!

 pretre wrote:

ninepaces wrote:
Thanks, and is there an errata for it?

Not for the repressor.

Actually, there is but it's minor: the Repressor's Shield of Faith special rule gives it Adamantium Will just like every other unit and vehicle with the special rule.

There's also a difference between IA1 first and second edition, and IA2 first and second edition.

So floating out there is: IA1:1, IA1:2, IA2:1, IA2:2.

Damn you forgeworld.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
You want Imperial Armour Volume 2: Second Edition, page 239.

Thanks guys I found everything I need.

I am considering Allies for my Sisters, help the ladies out. I have a Imperial Knight for that reason already, but I am also considering Guard (not at the same time of course). I know they can't help in the close combat aspect, but I was thinking of some nice objective sitters and some heavy guns. I also like that they make sense fluff wise.

I may be able to trade three Rhinos that I have converted to SOB use with a fellow SOB player for:
Command Squad
Guardsmen 10+
Heavy Weapons Squad

Then I may be able to paint some of his Sisters of Battle in trade for:
Some Heavy Guns like a Tank Squad

Are Guard a good choice for allies? What heavy weapons would you suggest? What tanks? Can I take A Psyker for the HQ requirement or should I take a Commissar?

 SQRT(-2) wrote:
I am considering Allies for my Sisters, help the ladies out. I have a Imperial Knight for that reason already, but I am also considering Guard (not at the same time of course). I know they can't help in the close combat aspect, but I was thinking of some nice objective sitters and some heavy guns. I also like that they make sense fluff wise.

I may be able to trade three Rhinos that I have converted to SOB use with a fellow SOB player for:
Command Squad
Guardsmen 10+
Heavy Weapons Squad

Then I may be able to paint some of his Sisters of Battle in trade for:
Some Heavy Guns like a Tank Squad

Are Guard a good choice for allies? What heavy weapons would you suggest? What tanks? Can I take A Psyker for the HQ requirement or should I take a Commissar?

I love my Guard allies.

The psyker unfortunately does not count as your mandatory HQ. I prefer to use the Company Command Squad loaded up with special weapons over the commissar. For 100 points, you can have either a lascannon + master of ordnance for backfield objective sitting and ranged shooting or 4x plasma guns for a more midfield support role.

My current allied detachment is: CCS, 4x plasma, chimera; Veteran squad, 3x plasma, chimera; and 2x wyverns. Its 485 points total and gives you the best anti-infantry barrage weapons in the game plus seven plasma guns with the ability to receive Ignore Cover and/or other special rules as the situation requires.

I think Leman Russ tanks are still overcosted in an allied detachment. If you really want to focus on backfield board control, you can't go wrong by adding a big blob squad with just power axes and melta bombs. 50 bodies with an attached ministorium priest or two are incredibly hard to shift and let you contest a slew of objectives at once.

I am also wondering how a platoon with two infantry squads and 2-3 heavy weapons squads would work instead of tanks. They could cover the back and help shield the sisters from drop pods, sit on objectives, provide some anti air with middle launchers and/or auto cannons, and provide targets for anti personal weapons so my seraphim and/or repenta are not the only such target.

How does that sound?