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 Melissia wrote:
And you also stand an equally good chance shooting two exorcists at the cost of three, as well.

I don't think you used the word 'equal' correctly here


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Okay, okay hear me out. If the SoB player has control of order of operations of AoF then you could do something like this:

1 canoness and standard 5M domis in an immo with MM, 2 imagifiers and Celestine. Vanguard the domis 12", then use your Turn AoF on Celestine to move her 12 or move+ advance depending. THEN use imag1 to move imag2 into range to AoF the immo, allowing the domis to disembark and the immo to move another 12. THEN use celestines AoF on the domis to double shoot. Now you got a 30+ inch first turn alphastrike with 12 melta shots rerolling 1s with at least the immolator's getting the 2D6 roll.

This is obviously just a thought exercise as a more efficient combo would have more redundancy and less points of failure AND they might now work in exactly this way but open your mind to the shenanigans!

ERJAK wrote:
He's right, and the way AoF is worded on the main page doesn't technically contradict it (though it's a close thing) RAI might not be right but RAW this is how it works. Loopholes!

GW's rule writing ability is still abysmal. Seriously that whole AoF thing, I cannot even in good faith understand precisely how it's meant to work!

can i check this is right

repentia pv = X
eviscerator pv = Y

total points per model = X+Y = 4x cost of bolter sister?

 troy_tempest wrote:
can i check this is right

repentia pv = X
eviscerator pv = Y

total points per model = X+Y = 4x cost of bolter sister?

Lookinh at the wrong evisceratot. Repentia have 'penitent' or w/e evis which is 0 pts.

Repentia if i rember correctly are 17per. Which is waaaaaayyyy too high buy w/e. Correct me if i'm wrong though.

Thx Erjak.

Anyone know whats happening with firepoints on vehicles? The leaks I've seen have nothing on this.


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ah it seems like firepoints on behicles have gone the way of the dodoo http://www.3plusplus.net/2017/05/40k-8th-edition-rumors/

Indeed.

To be able to fire from a vehicule now you have to be classified open topped.

Raiders, Orc trucks etc.

Okay, okay hear me out. If the SoB player has control of order of operations of AoF then you could do something like this:

1 canoness and standard 5M domis in an immo with MM, 2 imagifiers and Celestine. Vanguard the domis 12", then use your Turn AoF on Celestine to move her 12 or move+ advance depending. THEN use imag1 to move imag2 into range to AoF the immo, allowing the domis to disembark and the immo to move another 12. THEN use celestines AoF on the domis to double shoot. Now you got a 30+ inch first turn alphastrike with 12 melta shots rerolling 1s with at least the immolator's getting the 2D6 roll.

This is obviously just a thought exercise as a more efficient combo would have more redundancy and less points of failure AND they might now work in exactly this way but open your mind to the shenanigans!

Disembark says you can disembark if the transport hasn't moved yet. AoF says 'move as if it was the movement phase'. I'm a bit torn.

As for Imagifers, I see the RAW, although I doubt it was RAI. Celestine does the same thing. Hers doesn't have to be the same Ordo though.


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The lack of fire points is really going to hurt SOB.

I may finally have a use for my 9 penitent engines!

EDIT: Am I right though in seeing that a single engine would cost 55+40+2x17 = 129 munchkins?

So, Dominions are fragile and can't disembark. What about using them as a 50 point add-on to an immolator?

Spearhead 1
Celestine and Gem - 250
5 Rets with 4 HB - 85
5 Rets with 4 HB - 85
5 Rets with 4 HB - 85
Imagifer - 40
Imagifer - 40

Spearhead 2
Canoness - 45
Exorcist - 160
Exorcist - 160
Exorcist - 160
Imagifer - 40
Imagifer - 40
5 Doms with Immolator (Immo Turret) - 153
5 Doms with Immolator (Immo Turret) - 153
1496

Because it would be cheaper to have 5 regular sisters to buy the Immolator.

And I'm not sure why Dominions can't disembark.
They scout 12", then disembark and move 6, and use their guns on a target.

It's certainly less good than it is now, where even the heaviest can't can almost be considered a write-off after being attacked by Dominions, but now will only loose maybe half it's wounds, but it works, I think.

I'm now also considering Seraphim. They are seem a lot cheaper. Used to be 95 points for 5 with HF and now they are 79.


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 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
Because it would be cheaper to have 5 regular sisters to buy the Immolator.

And I'm not sure why Dominions can't disembark.
They scout 12", then disembark and move 6, and use their guns on a target.

It's certainly less good than it is now, where even the heaviest can't can almost be considered a write-off after being attacked by Dominions, but now will only loose maybe half it's wounds, but it works, I think.

Only by 5 points and you get scouting on your immo this way.

They can disembark, but they are a lot less effective in doing so.

 pretre wrote:
I'm now also considering Seraphim. They are seem a lot cheaper. Used to be 95 points for 5 with HF and now they are 79.


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 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
Because it would be cheaper to have 5 regular sisters to buy the Immolator.

And I'm not sure why Dominions can't disembark.
They scout 12", then disembark and move 6, and use their guns on a target.

It's certainly less good than it is now, where even the heaviest can't can almost be considered a write-off after being attacked by Dominions, but now will only loose maybe half it's wounds, but it works, I think.

Only by 5 points and you get scouting on your immo this way.

They can disembark, but they are a lot less effective in doing so.

Ah, true, I didn't think of that.

I guess there's the question of whether or not the Immolator is worth bringing just for itself.

With the survivability of vehicles now, is a turn 2 bail-and-burn such a bad thing? If you rush 3 Dom Immos with Imagifier, they either draw fire from the rest of your army or they get their big double melta volley from ideal position slightly later in the game. Vanguard makes it less likely that you lose movement inches befote you can afford to. It could also help preserve Repentia transports or Penitent Engines while they get in position.

Well, now I'm considering Seraphim.

79 Points for 5 with 4 HF
62 Points for 5 with a PP.

Just great at harassing and taking objectives.

Hmm.


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Another note. Hunter Killers are only 6 Points now and 48" S8 AP-2 D6 wounds.

Storm Bolters are only 4 Points! And give you 4 shots at 12". So for 10 points you can more than double the fire power of a rhino or Immo.

can i clarify deep strike/ fly? you come down 9 inches away. meaning you cant hit someone with hand flamers that turn? is there another move im missing?

 troy_tempest wrote:
can i clarify deep strike/ fly? you come down 9 inches away. meaning you cant hit someone with hand flamers that turn? is there another move im missing?

You are right. You will not want to deepstrike Seraphims for their firepower. You will only be able to use their bolt pistols and possibly the plasma pistol on the superior.
If you keep them in reserve, it's to drop them by an objective to score it on that turn.

They are much better starting on the table and using an AoF on them to move them 24 inches in a turn.

Fly them around while keeping cover for a 2+ save. Keep Celestine close and they also have a 5++ re-rollable.

If someone wants to charge them, he will have to get in close due to the -2 charge move while in cover and that should put him in range of your hand flamers for overwatch.

I plan on using both. Here's a sample list:

Outrider 1
C&G - 250
Exo with HKM - 166
5 Rets with 4 HB - 85
Imag - 40
Imag - 40
5 Seraphim with 2 2xHF, Sup with CS - 79
5 Seraphim with 2 2xHF - 79
5 Seraphim with Sup with PP/CS - 62

Outrider 2
Canoness - 45
5 Rets with 4 HB - 85
Imagifer - 40
5 Seraphim with Sup with PP/CS - 62
5 Dom with 4 Melta in Immo with Immo, SB, HKM - 231
5 Dom with 4 Melta in Immo with Immo, SB, HKM - 231
1495

Seras with HF are on the board
Seras with PP are either DS or on the board

HKMs are good, but as a one shot that has 33% chance to not do anything I think they require that a Canoness be nearby to mitigate the risk of missing. As an added bonus you get to re-roll the misses on the Exorcist Missile Launcher as well.

I think they are fine on Exorcists if you can keep the canoness close by, but on the dominions you're likely better off with just the extra stormbolter.

Fair enough. Also, Superiors can take Storm Bolters, which is nice for Rets.


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Adjusting:

Outrider 1
C&G - 250
Exo with HKM - 166
6 Rets with 4 HB, Sup with SB - 98
Imag - 40
Imag - 40
5 Seraphim with 2 2xHF, Sup with CS - 79
5 Seraphim with 2 2xHF - 79
5 Seraphim with Sup with PP/CS - 62

Outrider 2
Canoness - 45
5 Rets with 4 HB and Sup with SB- 89
Imagifer - 40
5 Seraphim with Sup with PP/CS - 62
5 Dom with 4 Melta in Immo with Immo, SB - 225
5 Dom with 4 Melta in Immo with Immo, SB - 225
1500

Superiors taking storm bolters is nice for superiors of all squads, since there's very little point of giving them close combat weapons-- our only real dedicated close combat squad already has its own unique squad leader. Adds another bolter to battle sister squads for half the price, too, and a bolter to celestians for a third of hte price.

 Melissia wrote:
Superiors taking storm bolters is nice for superiors of all squads, since there's very little point of giving them close combat weapons-- our only real dedicated close combat squad already has its own unique squad leader. Adds another bolter to battle sister squads for half the price, too, and a bolter to celestians for a third of hte price.

Well, I think it really only fits with Rets or Doms, since there is almost literally no reason to take BSS or Celestians over Rets and Doms. Doms are already spendy enough though, so I'll avoid there.

Does St C have the "you can only take one of this unit in an army" cos I cant see it?

 Mr Morden wrote:
Does St C have the "you can only take one of this unit in an army" cos I cant see it?

lol no.


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Supreme Command Detachment 1
C&G - 250
C&G - 250
C&G - 250

Supreme Command Detachment 2
C&G - 250
C&G - 250
C&G - 250
1500

That is the His Will formation

Wierd that the Exorcist is LD7 and the Immolator / Rhino LD8.

So, their wording doesn't say the Invul bonus doesn't stack. So if you have multiples, you can get down to a 2++

whats the deal with vehciles and ld? arent they fearless?

Seraphim get a reroll, so if you can get them in range, they have a rerollable 2++

 troy_tempest wrote:
whats the deal with vehciles and ld? arent they fearless?

Not that I am aware of - however they are immune to Battleshock as they are single units

 pretre wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
Does St C have the "you can only take one of this unit in an army" cos I cant see it?

lol no.


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Supreme Command Detachment 1
C&G - 250
C&G - 250
C&G - 250

Supreme Command Detachment 2
C&G - 250
C&G - 250
C&G - 250
1500

Looks like deathstars 3.0: a bunch of Celestines staying close from each other (almost like a unit) to get that sweet +6 invul boost xD
Alternate the placement of the wounded celestines in the middle of the pack for some wound-allocation-ish shenanigan

It gets worse.

YOu can take 5 Celestines and 22 Seraphim at 1500. The seraphim could have a 2++ rerollable and you could use them to screen.

Plus there are all sorts of weird interactions with the Geminae. You can transfer them to different celestines and when you respawn celestine she could go next to any of them. Of course, if you fail your respawn, all your geminae disappear (from all the celestines)