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I have been thinking about this for a while, and thought I would ask for your opinions on it. To become a commander a fire caste member has to go through the ranks, finally progressing from shas' el to shas'o. It says in the codex that a shas'vre can take a trial by fire to become a shas'el, but what about stealth shas'vre. Stealth teams are somewhat separate from the rest of the cadre, however the progression stays the same. Do you think (fluff wise) stealth sah'vre can become commanders, do they keep their stealth suits, and (while probably being less common than commander piloting a XV8) do they lead many cadres.

Thanks


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My Opinion: Personally I think that stealth commanders would exist, and lead cadres (O'Shaserra?), but that they would be less common than XV8 commnaders. Thier suits are probebly upgraded however, and they may do the two gun thing done by O'Shaserra.

Stealth Shas'Vres appear to have a lower grade than Crisis Shas'Vres, in that the Crisis teams get access to the special issue wargear, but Stealthies don't. Maybe the free thinkers that gravitate to being successful Stealth team leaders don't play well with others and don't tend to get promoted beyond team leader. Alternatively maybe the role of stealth team is incompatible with leading a full cadre. Taking the example of Marine Chapters, the captain of the Scout regiment is a full blown Marine captain with command group of veterans, so even if they were to be deployed at the had of the whole scout company, its unlikely the captain would be as involved with the sneaky part of the role rather than jsut leading the conventionally deployed troops.

Alternatively the universe is broad enough to allow all sorts of things, so just apply the stat increase and price increase between a Shas'Vre and a Commander and stick it on a stealth suit

Stealth Suit teams tend to be individuals with a bit of a personality clash that would make them not suitable for standard leadership roles.

You might see an all Stealth Suit cadre led by a Stealth Suited Shas'o but I wouldn't hold out for it outside of a supplement or Apocalypse.

Stealth commanders do exist, but they are quite rare as is the case with shadowsun (I believe the tau commander in the dawn of war games also was in a stealthsuit variant).

The reason they wouldn't be as prevalent is due to the nature of stealth teams. They are are designed to get in close and pick apart the weak points of an enemy formation. It would be difficult for a commander to lead a large force if they themselves were behind enemy lines. Not to mention in 40k, commanders are meant to be seen/inspire others - a stealth suit would probably be cloaked to the majority of their own forces as well.

A little friendly radar blip 200m in front of you (signifying your stealth commander's location) isn't as inspiring as seeing a crisis commander descend out of nowhere with his bodyguards while unleashing hell.

I don't think their graduation necessarily means that they will keep their Stealth suit. Stealth teams fill a role similar to that of Pathfinders. Recon. (Difference being, PFs prioritize targets while Stealth Teams get into ideal positions to hit hard.) This is not traditionally a position conducive to commanding a cadre. In our military, how often is the commander deployed with recon? It doesn't happen. Recon feeds him tactical information which he uses to assess what to do next.

I think any stealth shas' vre can become a shas'o, but they'll no longer be deployed with stealth teams.

I think you're underestimating the versatility of the members of the fire caste. These troops are literally born into military training. I'd wager that Tau Commanders all have colored backgrounds with a broad range of combat experience.

 Archonate wrote:
I don't think their graduation necessarily means that they will keep their Stealth suit. Stealth teams fill a role similar to that of Pathfinders. Recon. (Difference being, PFs prioritize targets while Stealth Teams get into ideal positions to hit hard.) This is not traditionally a position conducive to commanding a cadre. In our military, how often is the commander deployed with recon? It doesn't happen. Recon feeds him tactical information which he uses to assess what to do next.

I think any stealth shas' vre can become a shas'o, but they'll no longer be deployed with stealth teams.

I think you're underestimating the versatility of the members of the fire caste. These troops are literally born into military training. I'd wager that Tau Commanders all have colored backgrounds with a broad range of combat experience.

Farsight started with a broadside after passing his trial by fire, so it makes sense.

My interpretation as well is that when you become a battlesuit pilot some get to start directly in an XV8 while others begin by fighting in either a stealth or broadside team. Those that excel at these types of missions stay there while others get promoted to an XV8. If a team leader shows good skills at leadership he might get promoted to a shas'el, be assigned to a bodyguard team and get an XV8 suit. When he has proven himself he might eventually become a Shas'O.

gossipmeng wrote:(I believe the tau commander in the dawn of war games also was in a stealthsuit variant).

yes, the same kind as Shadowsun (XV22)

gossipmeng wrote:
A little friendly radar blip 200m in front of you (signifying your stealth commander's location) isn't as inspiring as seeing a crisis commander descend out of nowhere with his bodyguards while unleashing hell.

Actually I imagine they would have technology that would allow them to see each other.

Dantioch wrote:My interpretation as well is that when you become a battlesuit pilot some get to start directly in an XV8 while others begin by fighting in either a stealth or broadside team. Those that excel at these types of missions stay there while others get promoted to an XV8. If a team leader shows good skills at leadership he might get promoted to a shas'el, be assigned to a bodyguard team and get an XV8 suit. When he has proven himself he might eventually become a Shas'O.

Placement in a pathfinder team is voluntary, perhaps they are given choice of suits too? Or perhaps they are assigned based on the form of warfare they excel in?

I can believe crisis/stealth/broadside (Shas'Ui) -> team leader/riptide (Shas'Vre) -> crisis bodyguard (Shas'El) -> enforcer (Shas'O)

Perhaps from there, if the campaign is important enough and the commander is skilled enough they may be issued the XV22. It is in fact still a prototype so field testing is relegated to the most skilled.

Because of their mentality, it seems less stealth Shas'Vre would progress to higher leadership positions, but it looks like XV22 commanders still work with their stealth teams, Shadowsun has the "defender of the greater good" SR which only applies to stealth Shas'Ui and Shas'Vre.

 la'DunX wrote:

gossipmeng wrote:(I believe the tau commander in the dawn of war games also was in a stealthsuit variant).

yes, the same kind as Shadowsun (XV22)

gossipmeng wrote:
A little friendly radar blip 200m in front of you (signifying your stealth commander's location) isn't as inspiring as seeing a crisis commander descend out of nowhere with his bodyguards while unleashing hell.

Actually I imagine they would have technology that would allow them to see each other.

Dantioch wrote:My interpretation as well is that when you become a battlesuit pilot some get to start directly in an XV8 while others begin by fighting in either a stealth or broadside team. Those that excel at these types of missions stay there while others get promoted to an XV8. If a team leader shows good skills at leadership he might get promoted to a shas'el, be assigned to a bodyguard team and get an XV8 suit. When he has proven himself he might eventually become a Shas'O.

Placement in a pathfinder team is voluntary, perhaps they are given choice of suits too? Or perhaps they are assigned based on the form of warfare they excel in?

I can believe crisis/stealth/broadside (Shas'Ui) -> team leader/riptide (Shas'Vre) -> crisis bodyguard (Shas'El) -> enforcer (Shas'O)

Perhaps from there, if the campaign is important enough and the commander is skilled enough they may be issued the XV22. It is in fact still a prototype so field testing is relegated to the most skilled.

Because of their mentality, it seems less stealth Shas'Vre would progress to higher leadership positions, but it looks like XV22 commanders still work with their stealth teams, Shadowsun has the "defender of the greater good" SR which only applies to stealth Shas'Ui and Shas'Vre.

It says in the codex that they are given a choice of an XV8 and if they refuse they can choose a XV25 (look at darkstrider's entry). Pathfinders are completely voluntary (look at pathfinder entry).