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I can't find it defined as term in the brb. I must be missing something, if it's there somewhere please let me know.

Assault is what you are looking for.

 Mr. Burning wrote:
Assault is what you are looking for.

I'm looking for "Close combat", specifically in reference to challenges. The brb says something like "Only one challenge can be issued per close combat". Is it one assault phase? Or the entire assault?

Only one challenge may be ongoing at a time during the assault/close combat. When that challenge is completed (ie: one character is removed from play) another may be issued.

Rorschach9 wrote:
Only one challenge may be ongoing at a time during the assault/close combat. When that challenge is completed (ie: one character is removed from play) another may be issued.

What if the challenge was refused? For example; could you repeatedly challenge an enemy HQ assuming they repeatedly refuse?

This has come up before where my HQ and squad were locked in combat with enemy HQ and squad. Opponent challenged, I refused and so my HQ was unable to fight that phase. Following turn, enemy HQ challenges mine again, I refused and HQ is locked out again.

If a challenge is refused there is no challenge on-going. When you check during the next assault phase you can issue a new challenge because there isn't one currently in palay.

 Flinty wrote:
If a challenge is refused there is no challenge on-going. When you check during the next assault phase you can issue a new challenge because there isn't one currently in palay.

This is how we used to play it but my usual opponent asked the same question as the original poster. The rules say one challenge per close combat but do not state what constitutes a close combat.

It is argued that as long as the fight is ongoing (no victor yet) that you are fighting the same close combat and restricted to one challenge...

If so, when that challenge is refused, no other challenges may be issued until one side wins the combat?

Blighty wrote:

 Flinty wrote:
If a challenge is refused there is no challenge on-going. When you check during the next assault phase you can issue a new challenge because there isn't one currently in palay.

This is how we used to play it but my usual opponent asked the same question as the original poster. The rules say one challenge per close combat but do not state what constitutes a close combat.

It is argued that as long as the fight is ongoing (no victor yet) that you are fighting the same close combat and restricted to one challenge...

If so, when that challenge is refused, no other challenges may be issued until one side wins the combat?

No, page 64 Clarifies that "Once one challenge has been made, no further challenges can be issued in that combat whilst the previous challenge is ongoing." (Emphasis mine)

Therefore they must mean a challenge can be issued once per per assault phase as long as there is not a challenge onoing, or the underlined wording is superfluous

Blighty wrote:
If so, when that challenge is refused, no other challenges may be issued until one side wins the combat?

The rules restrict it to one challenge ongoing at any time. Not to only issuing one challenge per combat.

If the challenge is refused, there is no ongoing challenge, so you are free to issue another challenge.

 insaniak wrote:

Blighty wrote:
If so, when that challenge is refused, no other challenges may be issued until one side wins the combat?

The rules restrict it to one challenge ongoing at any time. Not to only issuing one challenge per combat.

If the challenge is refused, there is no ongoing challenge, so you are free to issue another challenge.

Though the rules do hint at there being only one challenge issued per Close combat, so the rules are not very well written.

"Only one challenge can be issued per close combat" (64)

"Challenges are issued at the start of the Fight sub-phase before any blows are struck. Only one challenge can be issued oer close combat- the side whose turn it is has the opportunity to issue a challnge first. IF that side choses not to, then the other side can issue a challenge."

There is no permission to go back and issue another challenge by either player. Since it says that "one challenge can be issued per close combat there is permission to repeat the process for another combat. The next turn you start the whole process again and so yes, he can keep your HQ out of the fight permenantly (until you accept the challenge)

I really wish that this wasn't the case.

It does seem to imply, though not explicitly state, that challenges can be issued in any assault phase where there is not already a challenge ongoing. Sadface.

It makes perfect sense. If a powerful hero is fighting your unit and the leader doesn't want to fight him he willl be spending his time trying to get away not fighting. That would last until the combat is over no matter how long that would take. The subsequent turn challenge issue is just another way of saying "my character continues to hunt your character by killing his way through the unit"

Systematically I don't really like the challenge mechanic, it is often cheesy and anti climactic e.g. "you there cultist fight lysander so that I, the mighty Abaddon might slay these feeble tactical marines."

wtnind wrote:
It makes perfect sense. If a powerful hero is fighting your unit and the leader doesn't want to fight him he willl be spending his time trying to get away not fighting. That would last until the combat is over no matter how long that would take. The subsequent turn challenge issue is just another way of saying "my character continues to hunt your character by killing his way through the unit"

Systematically I don't really like the challenge mechanic, it is often cheesy and anti climactic e.g. "you there cultist fight lysander so that I, the mighty Abaddon might slay these feeble tactical marines."

I think it especially makes no sense for Nids. Most of the other races I think will at least grasp the concept that they have been 'called out' where a nid just sees a sack of delicious biomass making some noise... just like all the others... mmmmmm biomass... (Edit) It's what's for dinner!

Enemies just wave a piece of bacon in the Nids face to challenge it. The odd thing is that they can refuse

Baktru wrote:
Enemies just wave a piece of bacon in the Nids face to challenge it. The odd thing is that they can refuse

Who needs bacon when there are tasty Marines around? Omnom

As a side note, just because lesser Nids are prone to defaulting to instinctive behavior, doesn't mean Nids (as a race) or the Hive mind are unintelligent or can not understand the concept of being called out.

 DeathReaper wrote:

No, page 64 Clarifies that "Once one challenge has been made, no further challenges can be issued in that combat whilst the previous challenge is ongoing." (Emphasis mine)

Therefore they must mean a challenge can be issued once per per assault phase as long as there is not a challenge onoing, or the underlined wording is superfluous

Though the rules do hint at there being only one challenge issued per Close combat, so the rules are not very well written.

"Only one challenge can be issued per close combat" (64)

Yes, and if we used same logic as certain people (IIRC, you included) in the Psychic Power stacking thread, this would absolutely mean that you cannot issue further challenges. There is permission to issue one challenge, p. 64 only gives further (unnecessary) restriction, but not a permission. Sure it damn strongly implies this, and the sentence absolutely makes no sense otherwise, but we are not supposed to care about such mushy RAI concerns, right?

Baktru wrote:Enemies just wave a piece of bacon in the Nids face to challenge it. The odd thing is that they can refuse

And you think only one is gonna come get some good eats? Live food is better anyways.

Nem wrote:


Who needs bacon when there are tasty Marines around? Omnom

As a side note, just because lesser Nids are prone to defaulting to instinctive behavior, doesn't mean Nids (as a race) or the Hive mind are unintelligent or can not understand the concept of being called out.

Don't get me wrong, I think they are very smart. I just think they lack the social intelligence to understand it in the heat of battle. How is a sergeant going to communicate to a Tyranid Prime the idea of fighting 1v1? A creature that likely has no concept of honor or the dual... and what of the brood of hormagaunts he's with? Are they going to recognize it as honorable combat? Even if the Prime could order them to stay out of it would that be the will of the Hive Mind?

Given time to think about it I'm sure they could understand but in the moment during a raging melee it's a rather complex thing to try to get across to a being that does not even know what your body language means. Even if you could somehow make it understand in what little tme you have, do you think they are going to respect it?

 Abandon wrote:
Don't get me wrong, I think they are very smart. I just think they lack the social intelligence to understand it in the heat of battle. How is a sergeant going to communicate to a Tyranid Prime the idea of fighting 1v1? A creature that likely has no concept of honor or the dual... and what of the brood of hormagaunts he's with? Are they going to recognize it as honorable combat? Even if the Prime could order them to stay out of it would that be the will of the Hive Mind?

Since the individual Hormies are each being controlled by the Hive mind, in addition to the millions of other creatures (including the Prime) yes - I think a snap decision is absolutely possible.

And it's less about Honorable combat and more shock and awe to break morale by eviscerating the Sergeant in front of his troops.
I think you're underestimating the intelligence of the Hive Mind.

Is that control in every detail at all times or is it usually more general in its directives becoming specific only when it needs to? As you do not use the Hive Minds weapon skill or ballistic skill I believe it is more general and the specifics of how to fight are generally left up to the minions.

The 'shock and awe' rarely has any effect that would not have come about otherwise and it seems to me The Hive Mind is more about pragmatism and brutal efficiency. Extra time spent without extra benefit is wasteful.

When did i ever say that nids were not intelligent?

 Abandon wrote:
Is that control in every detail at all times or is it usually more general in its directives becoming specific only when it needs to? As you do not use the Hive Minds weapon skill or ballistic skill I believe it is more general and the specifics of how to fight are generally left up to the minions.

They aren't individual minds, but they are individual bodies.

The 'shock and awe' rarely has any effect that would not have come about otherwise and it seems to me The Hive Mind is more about pragmatism and brutal efficiency. Extra time spent without extra benefit is wasteful.

You haven't read Deathleaper's fluff. Or iirc the Swarmlord's. Both of them talk about a subtle use of force to instill fear more than just cause death.

But we're way off topic now.