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I've been wanting to make a Chosen squad for quite a long while, but for all of that time I've never been sure how to kit them out. Do I go combi-plasma/plasmaguns and make a big swipe at MEQ first turn, meltaguns or combi-meltas for tank hunting, or take advantage of their CC abilities, kit them with power weapons and throw them straight into combat to tie something up, or something else entirely blah blah blah? I'd love input, as it's been bugging me for a while.

I always thought a 5 man squad with plasmas and a combi-plas would be interesting.

With the BL book we could do 6x that.

I was thinking along the lines of that actually, and doing the same with melta/flamers. I can't wait for the paper release of the BL book so I can have Chosen as troops without having to take Failbaddon (he wouldn't fit at all as I play Iron Warriors themed).

The problem with Chosen is that no matter how you look at it, Terminators can do the same job for slightly more but have much more survivability.

I think in the above example of Black Legion Chosen with Plasma Guns and a Combi Plas. For ~30 points more you can get 5 Terminators with Combi plas and a 2+/5++ and Powerweapon which can deepstrike.
If you throw a prerequisite Rhino for the Chosen to be able to actually get in range and they actually cost 5 points more.

Honestly for the "Vet" units in Codex Space Marines, Chaos Space Marines and the like, I believe the best way to balance them against Terminators would be to give them Artificier Armour/Fleshmetal by default but that's wishlisting on my part and would most certainly be broken in other ways I'm not seeing.

Why do the combi-plas? Give all 5 models a plasma gun

Yeah, I mean the only real thing you can do to increase the survivabilty for the Chosen is MoN, and it's just not cost effective. Fleshmetal would be wicked on Chosen as you said, but annoyingly it's not an option.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 chillis wrote:
Why do the combi-plas? Give all 5 models a plasma gun

Edited the description as I forgot about the full 5 plasmas.

You could do 4 PG and 1 combi-melta if you got close to a tank by chance.

Hmm, not a bad idea. Has mainly anti MEQ in that loadout but can pop a tank if needed.

My question is why take 5 chosen with 4 plas and a combi-plas when you can do 5 havocs with the same for 15 points less? you're getting twice the CC attacks for 15 points. This would be nice if you could assault after rapid firing but you cannot unless you're Slow and Purposeful, So in my opinion, Chosen are not the chosen (haha) unit for plasma surprises like this

I view them mainly as tank hunters anyway, plasma seems to be more of Plague Marine territory.

If I were to use Chosen it would only be if they were troop choices, even then its iffy. They are meant to be spammers but they are extremely expensive.

I hate that they are quite overcosted. It's the closest thing to Sternguard us Chaos fellas have, but they aren't as cost-effective or versatile as the Sternguard. Real shame 'cause the potential is frakking massive.

i ran 2 sqauds o 5 man chsen in rhinos with 2flamer 2 melta it worked for the most part. And took yabadabadon but yea youd most likely want like 4 sqauds of them or seomthing if your taking troops, In th old codex when they had ifiltrate it was nice poppin them beside tanks with 4 meltas.

 changerofways wrote:
My question is why take 5 chosen with 4 plas and a combi-plas when you can do 5 havocs with the same for 15 points less? you're getting twice the CC attacks for 15 points. This would be nice if you could assault after rapid firing but you cannot unless you're Slow and Purposeful, So in my opinion, Chosen are not the chosen (haha) unit for plasma surprises like this

Chosen have 3 attacks base
Havocs with a special weapon have 1 attack base

you get three time the CC attacks and +1 Ld
you get to use a troop or elite choice instead of a heavy support choice



There are reasons, just not particularly good ones.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ThePlaguedWarsmith wrote:
I hate that they are quite overcosted. It's the closest thing to Sternguard us Chaos fellas have, but they aren't as cost-effective or versatile as the Sternguard. Real shame 'cause the potential is frakking massive.

The codex author really Kellyed it royally.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Voodoo_Chile wrote:

Honestly for the "Vet" units in Codex Space Marines, Chaos Space Marines and the like, I believe the best way to balance them against Terminators would be to give them Artificier Armour/Fleshmetal by default but that's wishlisting on my part and would most certainly be broken in other ways I'm not seeing.

When C:SM honor guard come with AA and power weapon for 25 points you would think that just Chaos Armor/Fleshmetal wouldnt be too over the top for non ATSKNF-Chaptertactic CSM, but that would be using logic.

I've run 5 man plasma chosen in a rhino, and honestly running them as havocs would work just as well. They spend the game zipping around popping targets, with no time to really assault things. If they get assaulted the extra attacks aren't going to save a 5 man squad from death.

If all your heavy slots are full then go for it, plasma squads are very effective. Termies only get one shot then spend th rest of the game as bullet sponges, and raptors/bikes get fewer special weapons.

I guess the ultimate plasma squad would need to be slaanesh marked so their bucket of attacks could possibly save them, with an icon of excess to help protect against gets hot wounds. Super expensive, but effective.

 Badablack wrote:
I've run 5 man plasma chosen in a rhino, and honestly running them as havocs would work just as well. They spend the game zipping around popping targets, with no time to really assault things. If they get assaulted the extra attacks aren't going to save a 5 man squad from death.

If all your heavy slots are full then go for it, plasma squads are very effective. Termies only get one shot then spend th rest of the game as bullet sponges, and raptors/bikes get fewer special weapons.

I guess the ultimate plasma squad would need to be slaanesh marked so their bucket of attacks could possibly save them, with an icon of excess to help protect against gets hot wounds. Super expensive, but effective.

nurgle is usaually a more cost effective way to increase survivability


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ThePlaguedWarsmith wrote:
I've been wanting to make a Chosen squad for quite a long while, but for all of that time I've never been sure how to kit them out. Do I go combi-plasma/plasmaguns and make a big swipe at MEQ first turn, meltaguns or combi-meltas for tank hunting, or take advantage of their CC abilities, kit them with power weapons and throw them straight into combat to tie something up, or something else entirely blah blah blah? I'd love input, as it's been bugging me for a while.

CC upgrades are trash, just use their weight of attacks

I like the pentflamer option.

6 guys with 5 flamers in a rhino is cheap and can rocket up to roast something and then assualt it. yes it dies as easily as any other 6 meq, but it doesnt cost that much(133+rhino).

I play a BL list and run 2 10 man units of MoS chosen with a Rhino, IoE and 5 flamers each. They work pretty well for me as a cc unit, it's almost impossible to charge them and they clean up in cc very quickly. They are somewhat resilient to shooting attacks with the FNP and can usually last a few rounds to get up the board even if their Rhino gets all shot up.

Having 2 of them is better than one. Good players are going to try to drop a ton of shots on them before they can get close enough to use their flamers, anything that draws fire away is a big buff to this unit.

Here's the general problem with Chosen... At least from my experience..

As a Chaos player, I tend to stick to cheap, effective off the starting line, units.

Chosen being in the Elite section can make them useful if you want bodies, with special weapons, but in any list where you aren't bringing high valued heavy supports, (Tri-Las-Pred) or if you are just playing a small 1k game, you can easily and effectively take Havocs, kit them with the same load outs, and it's going to be cheaper.

All the talk about chosen having extra attacks means nothing when you consider the fact that if they get into CC with someone, they're most likely dead... So you will and should expect to lose your squad if not suffer a great deal of casualties.

So in general, when running Havocs as Shooting Special Weapons divisions, taking plasma guns, in a squad of 10 with a Rhino, you're hoping they can make effect of those plasma guns on things like enemy Terminators, MCs or what have you, before you get charged and inevitably killed.. Because lets face it, if your opponent is sending in Melee, chances are they are going to be GOOD at melee, and will inevitably kill your squad....

Thats just my 2c on the matter.. Chosen just aren't worth the cost from my experience as I like bodies, and bodies tend to win out when they have MEQ saves.

Here's a take on Chosen:
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com/2013/07/the-might-of-abaddon-despoiler.html

Chosen are pretty pimpin, especially once you soften their targets a smidge. Lots of good things to say about them. I saw them recently dismantle a Tau force in pretty convincing fashion.

 Jancoran wrote:
Here's a take on Chosen:
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com/2013/07/the-might-of-abaddon-despoiler.html

Chosen are pretty pimpin, especially once you soften their targets a smidge. Lots of good things to say about them. I saw them recently dismantle a Tau force in pretty convincing fashion.

That link is brilliant. XD I've got 2x 6 man Chosen Squads, but I play APOC style and they're actually lead by the Kranon Chaos Lords (making challenges even funner). I had heard that they were good in CC but it has been so difficult for me to get them in battle without a Rhino (cuz I'z izz po').

That aside (cause I'm totally wanting to get an Abbadon strike force now, and I don't even have the Black Legion supp.) I don't know why Plasma Guns are so popular in the first place. Aside from the fact they've always killed me and you can't charge off of Rapid Fire, they're 15 pts a model. Take Combi-Plasma (or Combi-Melta, after reading the above) and reduce your risk of catching a 1 and backfiring. That always happens to me. >< But talking points, Combi-Plas/Melta is 10 pts. Brings the price down 30 pts off a 6 man squad.

This brings me to something else that was highlighted by the above. Granted, this probably won't be cost effective at all, however if you play pointless like me (except when scoring and for relative army strength purposes) I finally came up with a reason why you would take a 10 man squad instead of 6 (which, for those counting at home is actually 5 + Champ) is so that you can use the first 4 without upgrades to die for your melee weapons. (I gave up melee because of Overwatch and Tau. -__- Shamefully, I just remembered that in the middle of this post. lol).

Talking about Melee, especially if we're dealing with squishies like Orks and IG: I give my Chosen Champ a Combi-Flamer, since he can still take Pistol and CCW. Just for good measure.

So, in wrap up: Abbadon squad? Plasma P + CCW, Meltagun, Combi-Flamer+ Pistol+ CCW sounds like the way I'd go, and if you're not playing "points" then a 8 would probably be the size I'd go with (since Abby is Bulky in Termi Armor and you'd want them to get in a Rhino after he/they Deep Struck or what have you. However you move them around.)
Chosen on their own? 4x Combi-Meltas, 1x Melta, Champ with Combi-Flamer+ Pistol+ CCW,

+__+

Totally do-able in my army, but I dun have Abby and not enough troops, so strong CC might be worth it...especially if they run behind my cultist blob lead by Dark Apostle.

Thanks much Dakka Dakka! In the short time I've been here, I've upped my game 10 fold. XD

TheRedWingArmada wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
Here's a take on Chosen:
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com/2013/07/the-might-of-abaddon-despoiler.html

Chosen are pretty pimpin, especially once you soften their targets a smidge. Lots of good things to say about them. I saw them recently dismantle a Tau force in pretty convincing fashion.

That link is brilliant. XD I've got 2x 6 man Chosen Squads, but I play APOC style and they're actually lead by the Kranon Chaos Lords (making challenges even funner). I had heard that they were good in CC but it has been so difficult for me to get them in battle without a Rhino (cuz I'z izz po').

So, in wrap up: Abbadon squad? Plasma P + CCW, Meltagun, Combi-Flamer+ Pistol+ CCW sounds like the way I'd go, and if you're not playing "points" then a 8 would probably be the size I'd go with (since Abby is Bulky in Termi Armor and you'd want them to get in a Rhino after he/they Deep Struck or what have you. However you move them around.)
Chosen on their own? 4x Combi-Meltas, 1x Melta, Champ with Combi-Flamer+ Pistol+ CCW,

+__+

Totally do-able in my army, but I dun have Abby and not enough troops, so strong CC might be worth it...especially if they run behind my cultist blob lead by Dark Apostle.

Thanks much Dakka Dakka! In the short time I've been here, I've upped my game 10 fold. XD

Thank you for the compliment and you're welcomke for the link.