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I made a previous thread about just recently getting into the game http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/556383.page. I got two DA sets from the Dark Vengeance set. I have also added a few units for very cheap. Overall, I think I have spent $70 on my DA army. I have played a few games and have had a blast! But I am running into a few problems and was hoping some peeps on here could help me out. First, I will list my army:

- Company master w/ power sword and boltgun
- Librarian
- 10x Tactical squad w/ plasma gun and plasma cannon
- 10x Tactical squad w/ plasma gun and plasma cannon
-10x Tactical squad w/ plasma gun and plasma cannon
- 5x Deathwing Terminators w/ assault cannon
-5x Deathwing Terminators w/ assault cannon
- 5x Deathwing Terminators w/ assault cannon
- 3x Ravenwing Attack Squadron w/ plasma gun
-3x Ravenwing Attack Squadron w/ plasma gun
- 3x Ravenwing Attack Squadron w/ plasma gun

So here are the questions I have:
One: How should I be using deathwing assult? When is it better to use on turn 1? turn 2? What weapons are the best for terminators to have in your opinion (I know it depends on what I'm vs. too). How should I use DA terms? I read they are more shotty than normal terms.
Two: I clearly don't know how to use Ravenwings because I always get them killed before I can get them to do anything. How should I be using them? What are their strengths? Should I get them close to enemies so my terminators don't scatter?
Three: Should I be splitting my Tac squad up into groups of 5 instead of 10? What are the advantages to keeping them in a group of 10? what are the advantages to breaking them up into 5?
Four: How would you play this list? I would love your opinion on this.
Five: What would be the next units you add to this list.

1. I usually deploy my Deathwing in turn two, after my oponent has made his moves and all that.
2. Your Ravenwing squads are really small. That's why they die so fast. I'd hug cover, and expand the size of the units a bit later.
3. Use them as ten. They're more durable that way. The advantages of breaking them up in groups of two is that you can have half the squad claim an objective, while the other halve is laying in cover firing the squad's heavy weapon. If your opponent butchers the 5 man group that's not in cover, he doesn't recieve his kill points, because it's just half of the unit.
4. Hmm. No idea Probably shoot them while the Ravenwing advance, and get the Deathwing in to butcher everyone.
5. A Deathwing Knights squad (these boys are awesome) and a unit of Ravenwing Black Knights (a group of six, preferably), because those have teleport homers, allowing you to zoom in, ignoring that silly terrain because awesome, and teleport in the Deathwing.

Should I combine the three raven wing squads into one big one, zoom them to the front line, and then drop my terms in on second turn? Also, I just remembered another question I had. On the bike there are two guns mounted; however, my friends told me I only get one shot each. I would think that if they have two guns mounted they would get two shots each. Thanks again.

There are, indeed, two guns on your bike. As you can see in your Codex entry, the bike has twin-linked boltguns. They're fired as if one weapon, but can re-roll failed to hits (I think, haven't got my rulebook that close, nor do I play that often). The same goes for the twin-linked plasma talons on Ravenwing Black Knights.

But yes, I'd combine those three squads into one - the only problem being that DV gives you three plasmagunners (which can't go in one squad).

Alright, let me make sure I have this straight. I am only rolling one die per each bike when shooting instead of two. BUT I re-roll misses for those shots which gives the impression of having two guns (because its twin-linked).

Usefulidiot86 wrote:
Alright, let me make sure I have this straight. I am only rolling one die per each bike when shooting instead of two. BUT I re-roll misses for those shots which gives the impression of having two guns (because its twin-linked).

Yep, that's how they roll. (and that was a bad pun, too )

I thought if they were withing 12 its still 2 per.

Using the DW terminators, pick something soft and/or valuable and make it disappear. I'd use the RW bikes for their teleport homers. Scout move them forward their 12 inches during deployment and then another 12 during their turn. Deepstrike first turn your terminators within in the teleport homer radius....profit. I would keep the ravenwing in the small squads, or combat squad them to keep them all from dying in 1 wave of shooting. Make sure to hide the bikes in terrain or out of line of sight if you are going second, otherwise you might see them poof.

If you are playing a kill points game I'd keep your tac marines in 10's, but for objectives putting them in combat squads will help you grab the objectives. Maybe get a rhino or razor back to transport them up or add some extra firepower (respectively). Predators or devastators might be other good considerations to get.

Just to clarify for you, a bike can shoot 1 shot up to 24" or 2 up to 12" and re-roll failed to hit rolls (not to wound rolls though).

My suggestion would be the following regarding additions.

Get a ravenwing battleforce to boost your bike squads.
Get some devastators for ranged support.
Get Sammael and run a 5 man command squad with the banner of many bolters, a grenade launcher and an apothecary.

Use the following trick move near (6") to the first squads you want to shoot bolters with in the movement phase, then turbo boost the bikes to the next lot of bolters you want to shoot. (this is only truly effective with bikes or stationary bolters)

I second the Devastators thing. An Aegis defence line will make them more durable, and the quadcannon will provide some anti-air just in case.Or maybe even an Icarus, if you feel like adding another lascannon to the bunch, which the sarge can use to snipe ICs from afar.

LC Predators also provide good bang for the buck, but only if you're bringing other tanks to go with them. Lone AV13 targets are easy picks these days.

The banner of Devastation is also good when carried aboard a Land Raider Crusader. Supported by a PFG Techmarine on a bike, and with some bikes or tacs to serve as buffers against deepstrikers or enemy CC units, those are nigh unkillable monsters made of pure dakka and win. The thing is quite expensive to get going, though, so it kinda forces you to build your army around it.

I play with the same type of list as you do! here's what I have done with mine.

1. I like to DS on turn 2, The DV set is pretty standard and does it job for a all comer list. I added a TH/SS termi with cyclone missle launcher to give my squad a bit more punch.
My DW drop deep into the enemy space to draw fire while I move my tac squads to the center board. DW are shootyy becuae they can twinlink their weapons on the turn they DS, and can mix heavy weapons with TH/SS.

2. 1 group of 6 and 1 group of 3 bikes. Turn 1 move them into enemy terrority but our of line to sight. Turn 2 you can use the homing beacon for the terminators and flank around to cause confustion. RW Strength in hit and run, turboboost, homing beacon, relentless.

3. I would keep tac squad in 10 for durability

4. really depends on the type of mission. this DA list offers flexibility.

5. I would add a command squad with a banner, group it around the 3 tac squads and have fun rolling ~120 bolter shots per turn.

I like 10 terminators with 2 ACs and Belial for assualts.

General Duf wrote:
. I'd use the RW bikes for their teleport homers. Scout move them forward their 12 inches during deployment and then another 12 during their turn. Deepstrike first turn your terminators within in the teleport homer radius....profit.

From my understanding, I have to Deepstrike at the start of the turn. The way I am reading what you said is that is scout 12, move 12, and then Deepstrike. Am I reading that correctly? Thanks.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Boniface wrote:
Use the following trick move near (6") to the first squads you want to shoot bolters with in the movement phase, then turbo boost the bikes to the next lot of bolters you want to shoot. (this is only truly effective with bikes or stationary bolters)

Sorry but I do not fully understand what you are saying here. Could you maybe go into a little more detail here. Still a virgin at this game. Thanks.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

wufai wrote:
RW Strength in hit and run, turboboost, homing beacon, relentless.

Could you explain to me how hit and run is so good? I read it and all I think is that I'm pulling them so far out of combat to only get shot at again, overwatched if I charge, etc. Thanks.

No, as the controlling player you get to decide the order in which certain things happen. You simply have to roll for reserves at the start of the turn, but don't have to deploy the deep strikers until you are deciding if they're moving (in this case they have to do so).

Usefulidiot86 wrote:
So here are the questions I have:
One: How should I be using deathwing assult? When is it better to use on turn 1? turn 2? What weapons are the best for terminators to have in your opinion (I know it depends on what I'm vs. too). How should I use DA terms? I read they are more shotty than normal terms.
Two: I clearly don't know how to use Ravenwings because I always get them killed before I can get them to do anything. How should I be using them? What are their strengths? Should I get them close to enemies so my terminators don't scatter?
Three: Should I be splitting my Tac squad up into groups of 5 instead of 10? What are the advantages to keeping them in a group of 10? what are the advantages to breaking them up into 5?
Four: How would you play this list? I would love your opinion on this.
Five: What would be the next units you add to this list.

1. There is not "right" time to use the deathwing assault. It all depends on the flow of the game, when hitting your opponent hard is needed and to time it right. Play it a few more times and try it at different times and you'll find the best time that works eventually. As for weapons one of the primary advantages of deathwing terminators is that they can combine shooty and melee terminators in a single squad. I usually have at least 2 lightning claw termies in my squads for melee ability at initiative to counter balance all the power firsts. A chain first in each squad works well against vehicles as well. Finally I prefer to have a different heavy weapon in each deathwing squad as possible. I have 4 sqauds and my heavy weapons are 2 ACs, 1 heavy flamer and 1 cyclone missile launcher. You can swap the heavy flamer for a heavy plasma cannon if you prefer, though a heavy flamer is nice when you first teleport in close to the enemy lines and does not have the "gets hot" rule.
2. Combine your ravenwing bikes together into a bigger unit. 3 units of 3 bikes are much weaker. A lot of folks use their bikes to charge up the middle into right where they want their termies and then teleport in using the homer. Then the combined fire of the ravenwing and the terminators make short work of the enemy units.
3. Depends on your games. If you need more objective taking/holding ability you can split up into 5 man squads, but probably best to split 1 unit up that way, leavin the heavy plasma cannont behind to guard one of your objectives and provide fire support and taking the plasma gun forward to claim another objective and leave the other two units full strength.
4. Solid fire base in the middle of my deployment zone of tactical marines with the bikes nearby and the terminators in reserve for deep striking. Grab hold of any local objectives and then move tacticals forward to take other objectives and provide covering fire for the bikes. Move the bikes towards a crucial part of the enemy line using cover as much as possible and when close enough teleport in the termies and have at it.
5. I would add 3 more bikes, add in 2 attack bikes and 2 land speeders and make two full 6 bike, 1 attack bike and 1 landspeeder, ravenwing squadrons. They are pretty nasty with all that comined fire power. Some type of land raider would be good if you want to be able to keep one of your units of terminators on the table to deal with other threats and not have all your eggs in the deep strike basket. I prefer the reedmer as it is a bad touch to drive up, fire off the frag launchers and then open up with the flamestorm cannon while your terminators charge out into melee. You currently have no air defense so either some missile launcher armed devastators with skyfire missiles, an Aegis defense line with quad gun or, if you don't mind forge world, a contemptor mortis-pattern dreadnought. The DA fliers are nice for ground attack, but don't add much on the air defense side of the equation. A lot of people dismiss the skyfire missile owned devastators due to cost, but I find them most adaptable if an opponent ends up having zero flyers you still have multiple missile launchers that can target vehicles and troops effectively. I have the fancy new landspeeder vengance, but it is so fragile that I hate to waste a heavy support slot on it.

Overall your force is pretty flexible in its current form and just needs a bit of tweaking to add some punch and survivability.

Skriker

Usefulidiot86 wrote:

Could you explain to me how hit and run is so good? I read it and all I think is that I'm pulling them so far out of combat to only get shot at again, overwatched if I charge, etc. Thanks.

Hit is run can be used on any assault phase, yours or your opponent. My main use is to assult shooty units to prevent them from shooting, even I I can't harm the unit I can decide when to disengage when the time is right for my other units to kill it.

It can also be used on your opponent's assault phase. Run away and on your turn charge them again.

Okay: A few things to make sure you remember:

A: We have a good advantage over other terminator squads, as we are able to mix in TH/SS in with shooty terminators. so bring at least 2 TH/SS in a squad of 10 to help them survie against melta/plasma spam.

B: A full unit of Ravenwing is 6 bikers, 1 attack bike, and 1 landspeeder.

C: Run your chapter master as Azreal !! This way both your terminators and your bikes count can count as troops!!

Now: as far as tactics go. There are two changes I would make. Option one is to get an ADL for your tac to hid behind. Option 2, is to put them in drop pods, to have two of them come in on turn one automatically with the deathwing.

So as far as changes to the list:
Run Azreal as your warlord, put the tacs in drop pods, merge the terminators into either 2 small squads, or one large squads. Merge your bikes into 1 big squad.