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2013/10/24 05:27:02
Subject: Re:USS Forrestal sells sold for $1? What the?
sebster wrote: Sometimes you'll get an item with some assets in it, but in a form that is very costly to access. So you might have a lot high grade steel in a mine that's just been closed, but it's in the middle of nowhere and so the costs in getting a team out to the mine to cut it up, and then transport the metal back (and dispose of the degraded parts) will cost millions. So to the mining company they've just got a liability that's going to cost more to dispose of than the raw materials can offset, likely to the tune of millions. On the other hand a scrap company will have more expertise and be able to do the same job at a profit. So a deal is made, and the $1 price tag is just there so both parties have some consideration and a formal contract recognised.
Perhaps, theoretically, the mining company above (or the government selling the carrier) might sit there and assess the value of the asset to the scrapping company and look to demand a higher price... but how many hours do you want government to sit there hashing out a deal with a scapping company to drive the price up to $50 grand or whatever? For such a piddly amount of money do you want to risk the deal falling through and being left with an old boat that continues to degrade and soak up money and maintenance hours?
So instead they just get rid of it... and someone else gets to try and make some kind of money on the thing.
Andrew1975 wrote: Yes, but the reef serves a purpose instead of spending whatever it costs to build the reef, you just sink the ship. Also there was a group that wanted to buy it and turn it into a museum. Now some predatory company with government ties like Halliburton is going to make millions selling it for scrap. The fleecing of America just continues.
I'm sure there are many option besides just selling it for $1.
You really need to speculate a lot less.
Didn't Russia just sell an old carrier to China? Surely there could have been a market to sell the Carrier to an ally.
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2013/10/24 06:00:11
Subject: USS Forrestal sells sold for $1? What the?
Peregrine makes a good point regarding the toxicity of ships, many warships of that era especially US ships are full to the gunnels not just with Oil/benzine but also our old mate Asbestos.
There are few places on earth that deal with these sort of things on such a scale because it it so dangerous. There some expensive and safe places that will break it in the developed world and cheaper ones like the ones on the shores of India where Health and safety is a little less of an in issue but the cost to get it there and through foreign waters also increases the price. Either way you don't generally want these ships siting in your home ports not being maintained.
$0.01 seems cheap though, I thought the UK most recently decommissioned an Illustrious class carrier and got £2M for it, unlikely to be as hazardous though.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/10/24 06:00:50
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2013/10/24 06:30:41
Subject: Re:USS Forrestal sells sold for $1? What the?
Andrew1975 wrote: Didn't Russia just sell an old carrier to China? Surely there could have been a market to sell the Carrier to an ally.
Yeah, which the Chinese bought as a starting point for the design and development of their own carrier fleet. Unforunately for the owners of other outdated carriers, that basically tapped the market. The rest of the world either already has carriers and an existing program, or doesn't want to start one.
The US does sell all kinds of other stuff once they decide they don't really want it anymore. Australia has Abrams that you didn't want to upgrade to the latest version, so it's probably fair to say if there was a market for this carrier you would have found it.
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
2013/10/24 06:35:51
Subject: USS Forrestal sells sold for $1? What the?
We sell frigates and destroyers more than anything else. Those are easily refurbished and a crew trained. There's not a huge market for 50 year old ships that will need a complete overhaul and don't posses any of the weapons systems or surveillance and recon systems they would need. Add onto that having to train between 3k to 5k people depending on the ship class it's just not worth it. And people keep naming a price like we sold it, we PAID them $0.01 as the beginning of an open ended contract to deliver and have our ships decommissioned by the company.
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LordofHats wrote: Hell you'd think sme rich business type guy would go "my own carrier? I'll take it and add a pool! Yachting in style!" and even that didn't happen.
When you think about Bill Gates is really wasting his money on that polio vaccine nonsense. The man could have an aircraft carrier as his own floating island.
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
2013/10/24 08:07:32
Subject: Re:USS Forrestal sells sold for $1? What the?
I think the city of Detroit needs to do the same thing on those abandoned city blocks/warehouse/factories.
+The entire city of Detroit.
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2013/10/24 10:31:13
Subject: USS Forrestal sells sold for $1? What the?
LordofHats wrote: Hell you'd think sme rich business type guy would go "my own carrier? I'll take it and add a pool! Yachting in style!" and even that didn't happen.
When you think about Bill Gates is really wasting his money on that polio vaccine nonsense. The man could have an aircraft carrier as his own floating island.
Wouldn't that make it easier to develop a vaccine though? Sail out to international waters and just run whatever tests and stuff you want, free of the restrictions enacted by individual nations? Just a thought...
I wish I had time for all the game systems I own, let alone want to own...
2013/10/24 13:46:57
Subject: USS Forrestal sells sold for $1? What the?
That eco-thing is nowadays only. Back in the 40s they didn't bother taking the crews off before sinking carriers for reefs!
Also Moguls using decomissioned carriers for evil purposes was already used in the novel Snowcrash with the Enterprise sailing the Pacific.
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2013/10/24 13:53:13
Subject: USS Forrestal sells sold for $1? What the?
motyak wrote: Wouldn't that make it easier to develop a vaccine though? Sail out to international waters and just run whatever tests and stuff you want, free of the restrictions enacted by individual nations? Just a thought...
Man, this got dark.
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2013/10/24 13:57:22
Subject: USS Forrestal sells sold for $1? What the?
motyak wrote: Wouldn't that make it easier to develop a vaccine though? Sail out to international waters and just run whatever tests and stuff you want, free of the restrictions enacted by individual nations? Just a thought...
Man, this got dark.
Well yeah, but there is a certain sense to it. Even if it is dark.
I wish I had time for all the game systems I own, let alone want to own...
2013/10/24 13:57:29
Subject: USS Forrestal sells sold for $1? What the?
Oh man this brings back some memories. I saw that film and did a report on the man Forrestal himself in a Naval Science class I took (interesting guy, kind of a "had lots of good ideas, the government didn't listen to him, a lot of them turned out to be right" character).
And as much as I hate the idea of any ship being cut up for scrap I guess we made the right decision here. It's not really the ship that's important it's the Sailors who served on her. Let people remember the history but keep the cash directed at future military advancements (like upgrading our airborn electronic warfare package...we're still using the same under wing radar jammer we had in Korea...no joke).
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2013/10/24 14:29:46
Subject: USS Forrestal sells sold for $1? What the?
LordofHats wrote: Hell you'd think sme rich business type guy would go "my own carrier? I'll take it and add a pool! Yachting in style!" and even that didn't happen.
When you think about Bill Gates is really wasting his money on that polio vaccine nonsense. The man could have an aircraft carrier as his own floating island.
He already haz one:
Oh look! A big assed pool!
Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
2013/10/24 16:52:54
Subject: USS Forrestal sells sold for $1? What the?
motyak wrote: Wouldn't that make it easier to develop a vaccine though? Sail out to international waters and just run whatever tests and stuff you want, free of the restrictions enacted by individual nations? Just a thought...
That's more or less what some people in Japan theorised in the late 1930s.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/10/27 03:24:14
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
2013/10/27 07:56:56
Subject: USS Forrestal sells sold for $1? What the?
motyak wrote: Wouldn't that make it easier to develop a vaccine though? Sail out to international waters and just run whatever tests and stuff you want, free of the restrictions enacted by individual nations? Just a thought...
That's more or less what some people in Japan theorised in the late 1930s.
Well you'd still be bound by international law and basic human rights and stuff, just not the more niggly national laws. I think it makes sense...
I wish I had time for all the game systems I own, let alone want to own...
2013/10/27 08:19:14
Subject: USS Forrestal sells sold for $1? What the?
motyak wrote: Well you'd still be bound by international law and basic human rights and stuff, just not the more niggly national laws. I think it makes sense...
My example was admittedly more than a little heavy handed.
Anyhow, medical research is complex and expensive not because government is bad, but because medical research is complex and expensive. Add on top of that the insane costs of raising capital on any kind of experimental tech and its easy to realise why this stuff gets as expensive as it does so quickly without looking at government reg.
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
2013/10/29 03:41:22
Subject: USS Forrestal sells sold for $1? What the?
motyak wrote: Well you'd still be bound by international law and basic human rights and stuff, just not the more niggly national laws. I think it makes sense...
My example was admittedly more than a little heavy handed.
Anyhow, medical research is complex and expensive not because government is bad, but because medical research is complex and expensive. Add on top of that the insane costs of raising capital on any kind of experimental tech and its easy to realise why this stuff gets as expensive as it does so quickly without looking at government reg.
Well if that's the case then maybe you'd cut some ethical and safety-related corners if you owned your own personal fully operational battle station aircraft carrier. For science, of course.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/10/29 03:42:13
I wish I had time for all the game systems I own, let alone want to own...
2013/10/29 06:02:55
Subject: USS Forrestal sells sold for $1? What the?
motyak wrote: Well if that's the case then maybe you'd cut some ethical and safety-related corners if you owned your own personal fully operational battle station aircraft carrier. For science, of course.
I would do almost anything to own my own fully operational battle station luxury private yacht.
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
2013/10/29 06:10:37
Subject: USS Forrestal sells sold for $1? What the?
LordofHats wrote: Well you missed out. Uncle Sammy just sold one for a $1
I've got a new baby, so it was beyond my price range, unfortunately I'll keep an eye out if they ever sell one for $0.01, though.
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
2013/10/29 07:18:26
Subject: Re:USS Forrestal sells sold for $1? What the?
You all should watch the "Sinking an Aircraft Carrier" documentary. It really goes into the work that is required to turn a aircraft carrier into a reef. From the information in the documentary, I believe the Navy paid for a lot of the work. I bet after working on that aircraft carrier in the documentary they felt it wasn't worth the time and effort to do it again and would rather just give the next one away.
2013/10/30 04:22:26
Subject: Re:USS Forrestal sells sold for $1? What the?
Lord Scythican wrote: You all should watch the "Sinking an Aircraft Carrier" documentary. It really goes into the work that is required to turn a aircraft carrier into a reef. From the information in the documentary, I believe the Navy paid for a lot of the work. I bet after working on that aircraft carrier in the documentary they felt it wasn't worth the time and effort to do it again and would rather just give the next one away.
Is this what you're talking about?
Solve a man's problem with violence and help him for a day. Teach a man how to solve his problems with violence, help him for a lifetime - Belkar Bitterleaf
2013/10/30 04:38:46
Subject: Re:USS Forrestal sells sold for $1? What the?
Boy those Somali pirates sure missed out on that one ... I am pretty sure that no matter who you are, if an aircraft carrier shows up full of pirates, you are GOING to give them your yacht, just saying.
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