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Me too - but since they haven't even launched the Pledge Manager yet, who knows?

I'm confused as to why they haven't sent out the PM yet.

It doesn't make any sense that I can see...

Truth be told, I guess they "REALLY" don't need to do the PM until like, a week or so before they're ready to ship. They're going to have plenty of product.

The only reason to do it early is so that you can start packing as soon as you get stuff, I guess. They're going to have plenty of product to fulfill everything.

Waiting until the 'last minute' rarely works out though.

I can't see that causing any problems at all!

It's splitting hairs, but they probably want to give more than a week of notice. The facility/service they're using will need to compile that info, print labels, pack the boxes, get 'em out into the world, etc. And I can only imagine there'll be issues that will take a little time resolving; people who want to upgrade (say from just one box to both), people who want to snag more boxes than just the 2 coming to most backers, time to put out invoices for those changes, get the money, and update the info to properly reflect said changes, etc, etc.

I'm sure that's just the tip of the iceberg. The particulars aren't super important themselves, just saying, they probably want to start compiling that info with some time to spare to dot the i's and cross the t's.

As was noted before, unlike some campaigns (Robotech, I'm looking at you), this one didn't actually promise to deliver before Gencon, and I agree that Gencon is simply too big to miss. If they actually have boxes going into the mail by the end of August, I'll consider it a Kickstarter Victory. If I get mine in early(ish) September, there'll be few complaints.

If people were walking out with the game in mid-August and I'm still waiting in October, however, I could see a little frustration mounting.

According to a bit of Google'ing, Fortune and Glory (their big 2012 Gencon release) had a street date in mid September, and some online shops were starting to claim stock was in hand by the end of August, so who knows? This isn't their first time at the rodeo, though admittedly there are a lot more figures/pieces in play here than with F&G, thus more QA points of failure or revision.

I had to look at the KS page to see what we even got again. I'd completely forgotten.

We get a metric gakload of stuff......


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By rough estimate, the $150 pledge level nets you 75 additional minis, between 30-40 new tiles, and a whole bunch of cards.

Where am I gonna put this thing.

Cincy - you're saying you DIDN'T go "Minecart" on this one?!?

 Alpharius wrote:
Cincy - you're saying you DIDN'T go "Minecart" on this one?!?

I backed it long after the Minecart was a "can't miss."

I'm looking at all the stuff that comes with the $150 pledge, and I'm trying to figure out if that amount will ever get played.

I backed too many games like this last year.

Between Shadows, Journey, Myth, Arcadia Quest, and SDE:FK, and Kingdom Death I've got enough dungeon crawlers to last me a few lifetimes.

And I still sorta regret not getting in on AvP.

I have a problem.

I am eager for a pledge manager since I am sorely tempted to use my credit to buy a grizzly army.

 Alpharius wrote:
Waiting until the 'last minute' rarely works out though.

Well, if you wait until the last minute, it only takes a minute.

It will be very interesting to see how this turns out. I can handle them selling the game to the unwashed masses if the rest have been mailed out, or even if their shipping company is shipping them the week of Gencon. But if they aren't going to ship until well after Gencon, then they'll drop a couple notches in the respect column.

Can't get the new update to post in here. Lots of great artwork and figures and cards. This looks really good.

But I am a bit mystified that, on 18 June, they're still finalizing things in the game. Just to have copies on hand to sell at Gencon, they'll have to airlift those. But I don't see ANY chance of them having 4000+ of each core game on hand to begin mailing these at the beginning of August. There seemed to be a lot of people really excited by this post, but I'm scratching my head at their timeline. It seems they would have to have all the stars align for this game to get churned out, boxed, packed, customs'ed, loaded, cross the ocean, customs'ed again, shipped to shipping company and then shipped to backers. Before Gencon. I'll applaud them if this timeline works out. But man, that is crossing your fingers, rubbing lucky rabbits feet and waving four leaf clovers in abundance.

That was a nice update though.

I'm wondering if they've actually started the process of getting materials produced and shipped to whatever packing company they use.

They've never actually said they haven't. Considering how little behind the scenes we've been privy to, they very well could be rolling along nicely getting the games ready for the summer, like they say.

Maybe I'm just a bit too KS jaded to buy that. I'm certain I wouldn't be the only one both surprised and impressed if they're able to get these games out around Gencon.

We're getting closer and closer to finalizing all components of the core box sets. It's a long complex process, but we need to be sure that everything is awesome! That's the thing about a game this big that you've been working on for so many years - you can't rush it at the end. It's too important! Plus, this is a game that will be around forever, on the shelves of gamers around the world. It's exciting to think about, but also a lot of responsibility. So, please understand that we're working hard to do it right and sometimes that means we can't work on updates or answer emails right away. And, it means that we've had to push back the Pledge Manager. This seems to be a concern to some backers, but it's a simple question of "would you rather have a Pledge Manager right now or get the Core Sets this Summer?" So, try not to lose faith, we are literally working around the clock on this.

Er, why not both?

I guess I'm just not seeing why they can't launch a pledge manager already so that they can figure out what everyone actually wants and what they'll have to make?

The tone of that one was a bit odd/strained but, whatever at this point!

 Alpharius wrote:

We're getting closer and closer to finalizing all components of the core box sets. It's a long complex process, but we need to be sure that everything is awesome! That's the thing about a game this big that you've been working on for so many years - you can't rush it at the end. It's too important! Plus, this is a game that will be around forever, on the shelves of gamers around the world. It's exciting to think about, but also a lot of responsibility. So, please understand that we're working hard to do it right and sometimes that means we can't work on updates or answer emails right away. And, it means that we've had to push back the Pledge Manager. This seems to be a concern to some backers, but it's a simple question of "would you rather have a Pledge Manager right now or get the Core Sets this Summer?" So, try not to lose faith, we are literally working around the clock on this.

Er, why not both?

I guess I'm just not seeing why they can't launch a pledge manager already so that they can figure out what everyone actually wants and what they'll have to make?

The tone of that one was a bit odd/strained but, whatever at this point!

I agree with you. Very strange, especially as I don't for an instant believe that THEY are making the pledge manager.

@Tamburlaine, In reality, FFP really hasn't let us in on any of the timeline. They've given us pictures of contents, but not really let us in on the production. Them saying that they're "near" finalizing game content, I don't see them having a milvan of games in the US or Europe to start sending out by the beginning of August. So them saying that we either get the Pledge Manager now or the Core Games in August is very mystifying. WTF? One really has nothing to do with the other. And I would just like to see what wish-listy production timeline they think is going to magically have all these complete games in their hands the beginning of August. None of the other KSs have it being less than 6 weeks from Factory to their hands, and that is once manufacturing is complete.

If one wanted to play Devil's Advocate, and took at face value what they've said, it's possible that whomever would be in charge of getting that information punched in (pictures, descriptions, double checking details, whatever) has other tasks pressing that require attention to progress the game's actual delivery.

In a larger corporation, these two roles would be entirely different departments, let alone different people. In a crew as small as FFP? Which, at a glance, only has 7 employees? A lot of people are probably wearing a lot of different 'hats' day to day.

I'm not trying to excuse the lack of information, or say that I necessarily buy that as the case, but it also wouldn't shock me.

And as noted before, unlike some other projects, they never promised to ship before Gencon, merely that they'd hoped they could. If they air freight over a couple pallets to drive the hype machine while our boxes are on a boat, I can't see losing much sleep over the matter.

It'd be nice if they at least launched the basic manager in order to get our address information (and have it easily updatable, none of this "email/message them and hope someone jots it down" crap some campaigns use) and gets the boxes moving in August, even if it means going out in the weeks following Gencon. As noted before, given that they're (far as I know) using a packaging/distribution service, their activity and/or con-crud shouldn't be an issue, so it's really just a question of when the boxes get to said facility and how long it takes to sort and mail out 5k+ packages.

This immensely amuses me from the standpoint of them basically being rules lawyers. "We're going to start shipping in August, because that's what we said we'd do. But we won't finish shipping until sometime in October."

This is clearly not what they said. AND they're going to sell games to people who had nothing to do with the KS at Gencon.

I am not complaining about them saying they wouldn't sell it at Gencon, but even they know that they're being pretty despicable, or they wouldn't have "rules lawyered" what they'd said during the campaign. I've lost a lot of respect for these guys.

 Salacious Greed wrote:

This is clearly not what they said.

I dont know specifically what they have said but I have read "Start shipping in August" before and I was under no illusion that shipping would most likely extend into September. (Hopefully not into October though)

Are you sure you arnt reading more into the comment than what it actually says?

The "having containers delivered every couple of weeks" part is what threw me. I mean, it sounds like they're looking at 8-12+ weeks, soooo, their shipping service can only handle roughly 100 boxes a day? Or they're accounting for the weeks that will be lost sending the European container over there? Like, there are aspects that could make this a slightly more reasonable statement, but as someone on the same continent, I sincerely hope I'm not waiting until November for my boxes.

I wasn't particularly put off by the issue of them selling at Gencon, but it's a bit more of a frustration now that I know I might be waiting 3 months or more to have mine in hand.

 MangoMadness wrote:
I dont know specifically what they have said but I have read "Start shipping in August" before and I was under no illusion that shipping would most likely extend into September. (Hopefully not into October though)

Are you sure you arnt reading more into the comment than what it actually says?

No. They said they would SHIP in August.

Not START shipping in August, stagger all of their product over several months, and FINISH in October. As well as sell that product to random Gencon attendees 3 months before up to 1/5 of their backers will get it.

No, I don't think I'm reading more into it.


What I am reading into it is that they prioritize their backers similar to how Palladium does. Perhaps not as bad as Palladium, but time will tell us.

I have to say I'm a bit concerned with no clarification regarding the EU shipment despite a lot of people asking if and when they are shipping directly to the EU or whether they are actually sending them all to the American warehouse and them shipping to an eu distributor from there (which would add several more months to the estimated time scale or even end up being like Myth with only a single shipment for EU customers a year late).

I don't mind them selling at Gencon on the understanding that they are posting all copies out in august but it now sounds like some backers won't receive 4+ months after it goes on sale to non backers. L

Any word on whether or not they're going to let us pick up copies at GenCon?

Cincydooley,

They have hinted in a roundabout way that you *might* be able to pick it up. By saying that they'd sign your copy at Gencon. But no outright saying that you can.

Also, that would require them having done a Pledge Manager. So they knew what the peeps want. But, they really only need 1/5 of the address for August, as it sounds like they're shipping 5 containers.


It is nice of them to clarify how much our backing this project for them means. For those of us who might have our core games shipped in October, we're FAR less important than all those random Gencon attendees!

Personally, I'm not going to begrudge any company for bringing their product to GenCon. It'd be foolish for them not to.

I do wish companies would at least do a token "poll," as I think if they explained why they needed to bring product to GenCon the majority of their backers would say, "Go ahead!"

But yeah, a bit more for.....clarity would be nice.


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Also, lets not forget how much free gak we're getting as backers. It's pretty absurd.

 cincydooley wrote:
Also, lets not forget how much free gak we're getting as backers. It's pretty absurd.

Y'know, what, I'm gonna say it; I'm kind of tired of stretch goals being used to excuse every last thing about a campaign.

Edit: and point of order; it's not "free". It was paid for in some fashion or another. We may have received a considerable savings over MSRP (and even some of the better discounted online and B&M retailers), but we paid a share for each item all the same. Their business model would've been a joke if we hadn't.

That stuff was used to draw more and more backers and money in. It's great to drive their funding higher and act as free advertising as people gush breathlessly on forums and to friends about the incredible deal we're getting. But it's not a balm that soothes every issue.

I had no delusions as to them getting nearly 5k boxes in the mail in the span of a few weeks, but I definitely didn't expect a 3 month window to be dropped (and as I'm sure many will be quick to point out, that's just an estimate! Delays happen, we should pre-emptively accept that it could be 4 or 6 or 8). Not all companies/projects are identical, but if the tiny group at Dwarven Forge can send out over 5k packages in a month, surely whomever FFP is working with can handle more than a few hundred per week.

They told us they were going to use a service to package and ship out boxes to save time, so I find it hard to believe that said service can only handle around 100 packages per day. Given enough boxes and pre-printed postage stickers I'm pretty sure *I* alone could do more than 100 per day, let alone whatever service they're using. And intentionally staggering the containers at one every couple of weeks seems like it'd reduce the overall waiting time but increase the risks of any given container getting held up and leaving them with nothing to send out for weeks at a time.

This project certainly hasn't garnered my ire like the Palladium one has, but this sort of info really needs to go into an update and give great detail/context as to what is being done.

I think I've shown considerable faith that 'no news is good news', and I'd really hate for this to prove on yet another campaign that, no, 'no news just means they don't want to give you the bad news'.

 Salacious Greed wrote:

No. They said they would SHIP in August.

You seem really angry about this, can you give me a reference for where they said that?

I had a quick look on the KS page and the pledges give a delivery time of August 2014, if they start shipping on the same month as their estimated time I think thats FRAKKING AMAZING especially when I think to the other KS I have backed and their delivery dates (Zombicide S2, Sedition Wars, Myth, Robotech, Deadzone)

At this stage if I received my pledge in October I would still be gushing with amazement but I will reserve my enthusiasm for when I actually have it in my hands otherwise I will just get depressed as I was with Myth (and still am but I have tried to forget about it) .

They have said repeatedly that work was going well and that they still intended to ship in August.

I don't recall even a hint of this being an up to 3 month process until the comment from Jason.

Yes, many KS's are delayed for one reason or another, but "shipping out 5k packages will take up to 12 weeks" generally isn't one of them, at least in my experience, especially for one that is, far as we can tell, otherwise on track for production. I don't think anybody expected them to knock it off in a week, but intentionally spacing the containers out in a manner of weeks plus their stated timeline could have international backers lucky to have theirs in hand by the end of the year.

That's kind of harsh.

So it would have been better, to you, if they had said everything will be shipped by October and then they started shipping in August? If that's really the case, then you're talking about a pretty ridiculous piece of semantics here.

They're going to begin shipping a HUGE project ON TIME. To me that's a pretty big win. And feth, I'll gladly receive my game last if it'll help someone that is all bent out of shape get theirs earlier.

I think being clear on the shipping estimate is important, yes. I don't see how it's arguing semantics when "October" is not "August". That's a pretty decent gaking difference in time frames, especially if it means some of our international folks (whom often draw the short end of the stick) might not be getting theirs for months after that. "2015" isn't "August" either, but all it could take is one delayed container or significant hold up to see such things occur.

 cincydooley wrote:
And feth, I'll gladly receive my game last if it'll help someone that is all bent out of shape get theirs earlier.

Thank you for your support. If it's so unimportant to you when you get your box, I'm sure the rest of the people who'd have been behind you will appreciate getting their boxes that much sooner. All we need now is a couple dozen more generous souls like you and we could see people's shipping dates moved up days and weeks! Huzzah!

MangoMadness wrote:

 Salacious Greed wrote:

No. They said they would SHIP in August.

You seem really angry about this, can you give me a reference for where they said that?

I had a quick look on the KS page and the pledges give a delivery time of August 2014, if they start shipping on the same month as their estimated time I think thats FRAKKING AMAZING especially when I think to the other KS I have backed and their delivery dates (Zombicide S2, Sedition Wars, Myth, Robotech, Deadzone)

At this stage if I received my pledge in October I would still be gushing with amazement but I will reserve my enthusiasm for when I actually have it in my hands otherwise I will just get depressed as I was with Myth (and still am but I have tried to forget about it) .

Mango, I'm less bent out of shape about when they ship, more bent out of shape because they're using semantics to cover up a gaffe. I pointed out that they would ship in August, they thought by Gencon. If you and I, on the swap shop here, exchanged several things, and I told you I would ship next week, but then only sent you one of the items we'd agreed upon, that would be ok? Because I started shipping to you next week?

Basically, everything they've now revealed I view as them toeing the line and excitedly pointing out that "we met our intent!!" If they've been working on this game for 3+ years, 9 months should have been ample time to have the core games completed, as they pretty much had all the figures digitally completed prior to the end of the KS.

cincydooley wrote:So it would have been better, to you, if they had said everything will be shipped by October and then they started shipping in August? If that's really the case, then you're talking about a pretty ridiculous piece of semantics here.

They're going to begin shipping a HUGE project ON TIME. To me that's a pretty big win. And feth, I'll gladly receive my game last if it'll help someone that is all bent out of shape get theirs earlier.

You point out the semantics in your post, but you're fine with FFPs playing on semantics? They've never stated, until this post, that their intent was to begin shipping in August. And when you say a HUGE project, it is only the 2 (two) core games. Which they've been working on for 3+ years. With most of the core sculpts done. So I don't see where all the back patting is coming from. Them missing the deadline, which it seems to be leaning towards, is more likely. And I'm not saying they're bad people, or a terrible company. But a lot of people seem to accept lower standards because it is a KS. Sorry that I don't cut professional companies slack. Guess they have all the apologists to make them feel better at that.

 Salacious Greed wrote:
If you and I, on the swap shop here, exchanged several things, and I told you I would ship next week, but then only sent you one of the items we'd agreed upon, that would be ok? Because I started shipping to you next week?

Come on, you know thats a crappy argument.

1 - If we did a trade and you told me you had to manufacture the items I wanted and have them shipped to you and then you didnt ship them to me the next week because of some circumstances then I would be fine with you taking another week or two.

2 - If you had moved house and you could only find some of the items and partially shipped my order in good faith then yes I would be happy to wait.

3 - If you had the items I wanted sitting on your desk and you didnt ship them because you thought someone might offer you more $$$ in the next week then No that wouldnt be ok.

Which one of the above is the most similar to the situation with SoB?

I'm sorry, I just think you're being unreasonable. I'm hardly an apologist, but it's fun that you threw that out there.

feth it. I hope they don't even start shipping until September and sell the gak out of the game at GenCon.

fething whiners needing to be first. Jesus.