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What kind of internal conflicts do factions face in the fluff? For example, I know the Lich Lords are forbidden from directly confronting one another expect in special circumstances but that they constantly vie for power anyway. Are there examples from other factions?

 Manchu wrote:
What kind of internal conflicts do factions face in the fluff? For example, I know the Lich Lords are forbidden from directly confronting one another expect in special circumstances but that they constantly vie for power anyway. Are there examples from other factions?

If I recall correctly, Feora, one of the ambitious Warcasters in the Protectorate, was upset that Severius became the next Hierarch after Voyle (if I remember that is his name) instead of her considering she was one that was by Voyle's side often to a point, and gained a lot of political power buy expanding the Temple Flameguard and that as a standing army. Now she is making deals with Magnus and Vinter to try to overthrow Severius (I could of gotten some of it wrong, but I believe this is the basic gist of it).

And, of course, there is the whole Vinter/Magus vs Cygnar thing. The 4th army also happens to be controlled by Vinter Loyalists.

Afaik The Butcher killed Sorschas father but as far as I know there has not been a direct conflict between them yet.

 Tanakosyke22 wrote:
Now she is making deals with Magnus and Vinter to try to overthrow Severius (I could of gotten some of it wrong, but I believe this is the basic gist of it).

She's made a deal with Vinter. Magnus isn't involved in any way. He stopped being a Vinter agent and supporter the moment Vinter ordered Morghoul to torture him and Morghoul revealed that Vinter considered Magnus nothing more than an expendable tool(incidentally, the same "conversation" revealed to Morghoul and Makeda that the Skorne were in the same boat).

Magnus' plans with Vinter's son is to put Julian on the throne, NOT Vinter.

She did abandon him to the enemy. She hoped that he would be killed but he survived.

The one of the Protectorate Visigoths (i forget his name at the moment), who is basically equivalent to the Secretary of Agriculture has been calling for a end or at least a stepping down of the Crusades. The Protectorate currently has such a huge portion of it's population in military service, there basically aren't enough people left to grow/catch food. His cries that the nation is about to implode under the economic strain of the huge military expeditions are basically falling on deaf ears.


In addition the Synod is pretty well split between on who they want to back after sevvy kicks it. Half or so are for Feora, another small faction wants to "Wait and see", while 1-2 members are trying to power grab for themselves.

 Platuan4th wrote:

 Tanakosyke22 wrote:
Now she is making deals with Magnus and Vinter to try to overthrow Severius (I could of gotten some of it wrong, but I believe this is the basic gist of it).

She's made a deal with Vinter. Magnus isn't involved in any way. He stopped being a Vinter agent and supporter the moment Vinter ordered Morghoul to torture him and Morghoul revealed that Vinter considered Magnus nothing more than an expendable tool(incidentally, the same "conversation" revealed to Morghoul and Makeda that the Skorne were in the same boat).

Magnus' plans with Vinter's son is to put Julian on the throne, NOT Vinter.

Alright, I figured I was missing something out of that.

Each faction has internal conflict. Even Legion, who are all mind melded together, have conflicts at times if I recall correctly.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Each faction has internal conflict. Even Legion, who are all mind melded together, have conflicts at times if I recall correctly.

Okay, can you give an example?

The only "conflict" I've seen in Legion is that Vayl(who's now in charge of basically running the Legion while Everblight/Thagrosh are doing whatever it is they're doing) was pissy about being left out of Kallus' development and doesn't accept him.

 Manchu wrote:
Okay, can you give an example?

Gotcha.

Here are some of the "headlines" of some of the major stories by faction. Some of them are a bit more of my thoughts or opinions since they are not spelled out directly. Some are commonly known. My feeling is that, since it is a wargame, PP wanted to have plenty of reasons for each faction to fight each other and even itself so you could have interesting and fluffy battles.

Cygnar: You have the current King who became king via a rebellion. You have the old king and his supporters. You have Magnus who I don't know if he supports the old king or the old kings son? That story line I am not that familiar with. You also have the conflict in Cygnar with geographical areas. You have the conflict with the races in Cygnar, especially the trolls (most of which gets played out in the troll faction, but not all). You also have the mercarian league which appear to have their interests at heart and not necessarily cygnars. There is also the conflict between the Morrowans and the cygnaran Menites.

Cryx: You have Asphyxious vs pretty much everyone else. And while "forbidden" (Cryx code is kind of like the pirate code) he did kill another lich lord. The other lich lords know or suspect, but can't prove it. Even he and Deneghra have some conflict in Colossals. The lich lords are constantly maneuvering against each other even when they are working together. The main way to get ahead in Cryx is for someone above you to die or fail miserably. So there is a lot of plotting. Then you have Goreshade. Who appears to be using Cryx to save the Iosans in his own demented way and will gladly throw them under the bus to do so. You can pretty much go on and on here. Everyone has an agenda and will do whatever they can get away with to advance it.

Protectorate: Feora vs Severius is the biggest one. Feora seems to think she should be the hierarch. But you also have conflicts on moral levels. Some Protectorate Menites are much more zealous and some are much more moral. There is plenty of conflict between the extremists and the more moderates. You have the conflict of magic/mechanika vs not. And I don't think anyone really likes the scrutators. You also have the Idrians which I got the impression that not all of them are excited about being converted to Menoth.

Khador: Some were already mentioned. But the old witch is up to something and Vladimir is her chess piece. Again you have the morrowan/menite conflict and even the menite/menite conflict. Plenty of different factions including the kayazy who want more power. You also have the Khador/Llael conflict even though the greater part of Llael is now part of the Khadoran empire.

Retribution: You have house conflicts. You have the retribution vs the watchers. You have the retribution vs the rest of Ios. I am not familiar enough with the individual personalities enough to know who dislikes who.

Circle: Pretty much like Cryx. Everyone has an agenda and will do just about whatever they can to advance it. A very political organization where survival of the fittest is not just a fact, but a bylaw. In the fluff they just recently conclude a major trial where a major member was accused and put on trial for basically being a traitor. You have three major players in Morvhanna, Baldur and Krueger and their individual factions.

Trollbloods: Not as knowledgeable here, but there appear to be two major factions, the Gnarls and the Thornwood. Both have plenty of conflict with outside forces, but there are differing opinions on how to deal with them, particularly Cygnar. One major leader wants to just wipe out the non-trolls. The other actually gets along pretty well with the Cygnar King (but I think he has some anger issues). They both want to unite the trolls to fight, but the exact tactics, what they are fighting for, etc are kind of shaky.

Skorne: Probably the faction I am the least familiar with. But in the type of structured society where honor and power go hand in hand there has to be plenty of conflict here. There was a short story of their current leader (I think) and her growing up and her military training with her older and stronger brother (cousin?) and how she hated him and wanted to kick his rear-end and get power for herself. Everything about htem seems to lend itself towards political and physical conflict both internally and externally.

Legion: As mentioned before even though they are all mind melded together and with Everblight doesn't mean everyone is in complete agreement. Obviously secrets can be kept and these secrets can piss people off. It is probably also my imagination (or my thoughts on what I think should happen), but I get the feeling that some of the blighted are not necessarily 100% all in on the killing of non-blighted nyss. Nothing specifically says this, but it is a feeling I get while reading the fluff. I could totally see some of the blighted throw off everblights shackles and rise up. And probably die horribly, but whatever. Anyone else ever get that feeling or am I just smoking something (or read too many other fantasy books where the downtrodden rise up?).

Oh Convergence! They seem to be mostly all in, but there have been some who went too far and basically were kicked out and held a grudge (Lucidia). You have some current members who are pushing that line (Axis). As with a lot of intellectuals you will eventually get people who question and/or have their own ideas of how the Great Work should be done. Heck, that's how COC was formed in the first place. And whenever you have people in power and people who question those in power you have conflict.

Hope that helps!

 Mordekiem wrote:
There was a short story of their current leader (I think) and her growing up and her military training with her older and stronger brother (cousin?) and how she hated him and wanted to kick his rear-end and get power for herself.

Just to address this, you couldn't be more wrong. I'll put this in a spoiler.



You were right that there is infighting in Skorne though, the vibe I get is that it is kind of like the Tsurani from the R. E. Feist novels. Great houses with armies, beat a house they bend a knee/are destroyed, all honour and code based, etc.

 motyak wrote:

 Mordekiem wrote:
There was a short story of their current leader (I think) and her growing up and her military training with her older and stronger brother (cousin?) and how she hated him and wanted to kick his rear-end and get power for herself.

Just to address this, you couldn't be more wrong. I'll put this in a spoiler.

Spoiler:

Makeda wants to honour her house, and being the second born child sees the best way to honour this to be serving her lord faithfully (grandfather then father). But she gets left to die by her brother as he murders her father with poison and consigns his soul to nothingness. Even after that she doesn't rise up in rebellion or anything until he tries to have her killed, and then she still puts her house first, making a dangerous play to kill him quickly and thus putting herself in great danger, just so she can minimise the losses her house will suffer in the civil war otherwise. So she really didn't want power, she just wanted to serve her warrior code and her family, but her family kept trying to kill her, and would have left her soul to nothingness like they did for her father.

You were right that there is infighting in Skorne though, the vibe I get is that it is kind of like the Tsurani from the R. E. Feist novels. Great houses with armies, beat a house they bend a knee/are destroyed, all honour and code based, etc.

Not sure how I could be "more wrong". I found the story I was thinking of in NQ 47. There are passages where she takes pleasure in her brothers anger and some glaring and maddened eyes, etc. The implication was definitely there that the death of either of them was a definite possibility and neither her nor her brother seemed to concerned with that fact. Certainly she wanted to be a great warrior, but she had no love for her brother in that excerpt. And it was 3 pages of how she wanted to kick his rear-end and at the very end she finally beat him for the first time. And it sounds like she does want to get power for herself when she kills him. Perhaps that is because she wanted what was good for her house. But she did want it. And I am sure being left to die by her brother and his murder of their father didn't endear her to him in anyways.

Perhaps those are just things I drew from the fluff I was reading (which is why my disclaimer was first), but nothing you said seems to discount any of it.

Wait what? This is Makeda we are talking about right? The story in NQ (which is the training room, her brother who she smashes the ear of etc) is an excerpt of a novella. And yeah that's just how Skorne train, if you get injured/whatever then you were weak. When she gets to the tent where her father has died etc she still accepts her brother as her lord and what not, and she talks to one of the extoller's about how she has to be ok with it because its her place to be ok with it, and just how the world works. But yeah we are probably just reading it from different perspectives or something, sorry for coming across rude.

Maybe I should clarify. I am wondering more about the sort of fluff that could back up why a faction would fight another one in game. That seems pretty rare, outside of Cryx.

No worries. I also just read the excerpt from NQ. I did not read the entire novella. Reading just that excerpt there is certainly no love lost between the two.

But yeah, just trying to give an overview of what I have seen. Probably should consider it more on par with the National Enquirer than USA today. LOL

To me, the kind of conflict that would manifest in an in-game style battle ... that seems pretty likely regarding Skorne. Now, I'm not really that up on Hordes, either. I haven't looked at the Skorne book for a long time nor have I read any of the novels/novellas.

 Manchu wrote:
Maybe I should clarify. I am wondering more about the sort of fluff that could back up why a faction would fight another one in game. That seems pretty rare, outside of Cryx.

Well for Cygnar, if you play the game as if it was 3 years in the future or something (in terms of universe time) you could well have the nobles leading the 4th army going against Leto. The sentiment of 'Leto is weak, we need to return Cygnar to glory ourselves' has already reached the rank and fie of the 4th army, even if it isn't overtly 'damn Leto' like it is for the nobles. So unless you feel the compulsion to play in the immediate setting of the universe (which is silly, because then warcasters are stuck where they currently, are, for example you couldn't play Vlad because he's off being tortured isn't he?), there is at least one good reason for Cygnar. Go back a bit in time and you have the actual civil war, although it'd be up to you if you adjusted the forces to account for the tech at the time.

Where can I learn more about the 4th Army?

Do they have a color scheme?

 Manchu wrote:
Where can I learn more about the 4th Army?

Do they have a color scheme?

Same as the rest of Cygnar.

They get 3 pages in the Forces of Cygnar book, I can't find anything about a colour scheme though. I think they get a mention in the trollbloods book as well, because it is them that sabotage the peace efforts between Cygnar and the Trollbloods by attacking all these villiages and stuff, Trolls attack a medical train or something, escalation escaltion etc. That trollbloods bit is from memory though

 motyak wrote:
They get 3 pages in the Forces of Cygnar book, I can't find anything about a colour scheme though. I think they get a mention in the trollbloods book as well, because it is them that sabotage the peace efforts between Cygnar and the Trollbloods by attacking all these villiages and stuff, Trolls attack a medical train or something, escalation escaltion etc. That trollbloods bit is from memory though

There's also fluff for the 4th Army in the issue with the Bad Seeds Theme for eMagnus. Essentially, Magnus shifts away resources from the 4th: Members of the 4th that don't mind getting paid a bit extra(off the books, of course) or are sent by Vinter loyalists, Jacks that are "scheduled" for maintenance/decommissioning/etc or just outright "missing" for a few days, and Sword Knights loyal to certain nobles.

Essentially, the 4th is where Cygnar sends the misfits, the malcontents(especially Vinter loyalists), and all other undesirable soldiers. Any new recruits sent to the 4th tend to pick up these traits or transfer out. The thinking, IIRC, was putting them all together on a less active area(the border with Ord) would keep them out of too much trouble and out of the brass' hair in Cygnar's typical "forgive and forget" mindset. Obviously, they don't see how anything can happen with all the bad eggs in one basket.

While there's no official scheme difference, I paint my 4th Army Cygnar in the darker Vinter era blue rather than the more ultramarine blue of standard Cygnar.

Ah, hadn't thought about the mercs book, that makes sense.

 Manchu wrote:
Maybe I should clarify. I am wondering more about the sort of fluff that could back up why a faction would fight another one in game. That seems pretty rare, outside of Cryx.

Ah, now we are getting to the crux of the question! Yes, there is plenty for almost every faction. Most of the things I posted have to do with people fighting each other.

So a few scraps into Skorne
Makeda is the big boss and a few respect her deeply - Morghoul, Xerxis etc

Rasheth is probably more powerful with a larger army, and thus doesn't give her as much respect. Tho he doesn't seem to be the type that wants to lead an empire

Zaal likely doesn't respect her at all, and is constantly doing experiments to make ... basically nuclear skorne soul bombs

Hexeris has the rank of what is similar to a "pope" so he doesn't exactly follows the rule of the army, which is also why Makeda gave him a military rank that would force him under her, but he is pretty power hungry

 Manchu wrote:
Where can I learn more about the 4th Army?

Do they have a color scheme?

In addition to what's already been said, Katherine laddermore's dad is a big name in the conspiracy against Leto, doing his utmost to sabotage him politically, and constantly opposing him in the cygnaran parliament (ikrpg). He is one of Magnus' biggest backers, by all accounts.

All the characters in factions have their own internal grudges and feuds as well as cross factional ones.

 Manchu wrote:
What kind of internal conflicts do factions face in the fluff? For example, I know the Lich Lords are forbidden from directly confronting one another expect in special circumstances but that they constantly vie for power anyway. Are there examples from other factions?

Morghoul had a boss fight against the former Master of assassins before
he became epic Morghoul with the fan of shadows.

Lylyth has been questioning her allegiance to Everblight and even removed
her helmet and waited for death. I think she's back on full resolve now.

Doomshaper is a species-ist that Madrak can't control. Borka and Madrak
seem to have a love/hate relationship going on. Borka follows Madrak to find
glory in battle whereas Madrak keeps trying to avoid fighting.

Feora and Severius (or was it Kreoss) had a tense moment in Warmachine: Escalation.

Morvahna tried to control and direct Kaya's actions only to find that she could
not. Kromac figured out that Morvahna didn't have his peoples' best interest
at heart, so they've had a falling out. Basically, no one likes Morvahna, lol.

I read Feora's entries and it doesn't seem like she would rebel against Severius. Rather, it seems more likely that she is politically positioning herself to eventually be chosen as his successor.

 Manchu wrote:
I read Feora's entries and it doesn't seem like she would rebel against Severius. Rather, it seems more likely that she is politically positioning herself to eventually be chosen as his successor.

Her entries, did that include the fluff from the faction section in the last few books? And and the beginning/end?

I remember the collossals being taken from her guard as a tense event.