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Can pink horros shoot the turn they were summoned from the portal glyph?

When does a Psyker generate WC?
If the Horrors do not exist at the time WC is generated, where does the WC for their shooting come from?

Edit: I don't know what we're yelling about

(I have no idea)

This has been argued many ways before. The Portaglyphed Troops disembark from it, not deepstrike. So if they disembark, aren't they already in it, even if we don't how many dudes will disembark? Librarians in transports disembark from their vehicles, and they generate WC at the beginning of the turn even though they're not standing on the table.

That's the only reason I could think of why the Horrors would have a Warp Charge.

Well, the librarian starts the game in the transport, or comes on from reserves. The portal glyph is manifested. That's what confuses me.

 Lord Krungharr wrote:
This has been argued many ways before. The Portaglyphed Troops disembark from it, not deepstrike. So if they disembark, aren't they already in it, even if we don't how many dudes will disembark? Librarians in transports disembark from their vehicles, and they generate WC at the beginning of the turn even though they're not standing on the table.

The comparison to other Psykers is invalid, as other Psykers exist and can thus generate WC. They are paid for in your list, and the models exist somewhere (either in reserve or on the table). (Being in a transport counts as being on the table, in this instance.)
Horrors, before disembarking from the Portalgglyph, do not actually exist. Something that does not exist cannot generate WC.

HIWPI: let the Horrors shoot.
RAW: no WC to shoot with.

 Lord Krungharr wrote:
The Portaglyphed Troops disembark from it, not deepstrike. So if they disembark, aren't they already in it...?.

The rules don't say this so no they aren't already in it.

Also the portalglyph is not a transport, so there is nothing for the unit to already be in

IIRC the daemon player has to roll a dice to see if anything comes out. Then he has to choose what that might be. So no, there's no way to "know" there are Horrors ready to come out.

Everyone I have played with has allowed pinkies to shoot on the turn they arrive from the portal glyph. The biggest argument is what power they start with, so I always tell them I will be spawning pink horrors, who will be using primaris power.

I play competitive daemons and Nope, they arent alive to generate warp charges (on the board or in reserves or in a transport. Pretty sure they come into play from the portal and do this by using the rules for disembark rathr then acutally disembarking). Same as the spawned herald from 11 on the warpstorm table, again not alive to generate warp charges.

There is clear RAW rules to cover this, sadly we dont have any RAW rules to cover if the horrors are allowed to roll or take any powers, i usually play house rules as they can.

This came up in a recent tournament I ran, and the decision I went with was that they cannot shoot the turn they arrive.

I would most like this to psykers starting in reserve, in that they are not on the table to generate warp charge. The real question then becomes, do they have a pschic power, because they were not in your army at the point everyone else generated their powers.

What I would like is for this to be clarified by GW, but RAW they should not have a power and should not come out of the portal with any warp charge, because they did not exist at the time these events took place.

Unlike psykers in reserves, Horrors aren't alive to generate Warp Charges at the start of your turn, so no, they can't shoot, as they don't have a warp charge to expend.

 KhorneDawg wrote:
I would most like this to psykers starting in reserve, in that they are not on the table to generate warp charge. The real question then becomes, do they have a pschic power, because they were not in your army at the point everyone else generated their powers.

What I would like is for this to be clarified by GW, but RAW they should not have a power and should not come out of the portal with any warp charge, because they did not exist at the time these events took place.

This is a common misconception. Psykers in reserve still generate warp charges, why would they not?. Can i use my warlord trait while off the table, can fatey use his re roll, can autarch adjust the reserve roll, can tiggy use his reseve re roll while off the board. of course they can as there is nothing to stop it.

I have seen the 'models cannot use any abilities or rules that must be used at start of turn' rule to say warp charges are not generated, the fact the psykers do not have a choice to generate them or not means that rule does not apply, it is not something they can use or not use it is something that happens.

MarkyMark wrote:

 KhorneDawg wrote:
I would most like this to psykers starting in reserve, in that they are not on the table to generate warp charge. The real question then becomes, do they have a pschic power, because they were not in your army at the point everyone else generated their powers.

What I would like is for this to be clarified by GW, but RAW they should not have a power and should not come out of the portal with any warp charge, because they did not exist at the time these events took place.

This is a common misconception. Psykers in reserve still generate warp charges, why would they not?. Can i use my warlord trait while off the table, can fatey use his re roll, can autarch adjust the reserve roll, can tiggy use his reseve re roll while off the board. of course they can as there is nothing to stop it.

I have seen the 'models cannot use any abilities or rules that must be used at start of turn' rule to say warp charges are not generated, the fact the psykers do not have a choice to generate them or not means that rule does not apply, it is not something they can use or not use it is something that happens.

Acctually, most of those examples cannot use their abilities while off the table as it states they have to be on the table to use them i believe.

MarkyMark wrote:
Psykers in reserve still generate warp charges, why would they not?

That's not really the subject of this discussion, though. The Portalglyph models are never in reserve. They are generated by the portal.

Isn't the real question whether they even have a power to use, since power generation is before deployment and they don't exist then?

Indeed. not only do they not have a warpcharge, as they did not exist until after WC are generated, they dont get to even have a psychic power.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Indeed. not only do they not have a warpcharge, as they did not exist until after WC are generated, they dont get to even have a psychic power.

Yet, as a Brotherhood of Psykers, are required to have a psychic power by their rules, so this is a bit of an issue...

Yeah, the power thing can result in a rules contradiction, which makes it easier to invent a solution, as a rule is being overridden one way or the other. It seems to me the least contradictory solution is to generate hypothetical powers for hypothetical units at the normal time, which such units will then have if they ever come into play.

Pyrian wrote:
Yeah, the power thing can result in a rules contradiction, which makes it easier to invent a solution, as a rule is being overridden one way or the other. It seems to me the least contradictory solution is to generate hypothetical powers for hypothetical units at the normal time, which such units will then have if they ever come into play.

I can roll up to seven times on the Warp Storm. That's a potential seven Tzeralds, or seven units of Horrors. The Portalglyph can also spawn a potential of seven times.
This means that, according to your recommendation Pyrian, I have to roll 21 psychic powers and keep track of which order they will be applied throughout the game. This sounds the opposite of easy!

The EASIEST way is to roll for a random power once the unit comes into existence. For Horrors, that's on Change (you can even house-rule that they can only get the Primaris), and for Tzeralds it's Divination or Change (again, can house-rule to only get the Primaris).

 PrinceRaven wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Indeed. not only do they not have a warpcharge, as they did not exist until after WC are generated, they dont get to even have a psychic power.

Yet, as a Brotherhood of Psykers, are required to have a psychic power by their rules, so this is a bit of an issue...

Where do the rules say that a Brotherhood of Psykers are required to have psychic powers?

Elric Greywolf wrote:

Pyrian wrote:
Yeah, the power thing can result in a rules contradiction, which makes it easier to invent a solution, as a rule is being overridden one way or the other. It seems to me the least contradictory solution is to generate hypothetical powers for hypothetical units at the normal time, which such units will then have if they ever come into play.

This sounds the opposite of easy!

"Easy" was never my intent.

Happyjew wrote:

 PrinceRaven wrote:
Yet, as a Brotherhood of Psykers, are required to have a psychic power by their rules, so this is a bit of an issue...

Where do the rules say that a Brotherhood of Psykers are required to have psychic powers?

Under psykers - not under the Brotherhood specifically, but any psyker.

The GW psychic powers app generates warp charges for Pink Horrors that are added to the game mid-game. Certainly not a definitive answer, but since it has been updated multiple times and the Daemon Codex is still sans FAQ, I have taken that to be the best available evidence from GW on how they intend this to work. If nothing else, it is the most recent evidence and supports the general mindset of every TO I've talked to.

Pyrian wrote:

MarkyMark wrote:
Psykers in reserve still generate warp charges, why would they not?

That's not really the subject of this discussion, though. The Portalglyph models are never in reserve. They are generated by the portal.

Can you please follow the thread. I was replying to one person about one facet of his post, my post above clearly states my opinion on the OP.

Eihnlazer wrote:

MarkyMark wrote:

 KhorneDawg wrote:
I would most like this to psykers starting in reserve, in that they are not on the table to generate warp charge. The real question then becomes, do they have a pschic power, because they were not in your army at the point everyone else generated their powers.

What I would like is for this to be clarified by GW, but RAW they should not have a power and should not come out of the portal with any warp charge, because they did not exist at the time these events took place.

This is a common misconception. Psykers in reserve still generate warp charges, why would they not?. Can i use my warlord trait while off the table, can fatey use his re roll, can autarch adjust the reserve roll, can tiggy use his reseve re roll while off the board. of course they can as there is nothing to stop it.

I have seen the 'models cannot use any abilities or rules that must be used at start of turn' rule to say warp charges are not generated, the fact the psykers do not have a choice to generate them or not means that rule does not apply, it is not something they can use or not use it is something that happens.

Acctually, most of those examples cannot use their abilities while off the table as it states they have to be on the table to use them i believe.

I suggest you check again.

Tiggy, if your army contains tiggy you can...

Fatey, the staff allows you to re roll one dice per turn

Havent got the eldar dex to hand but pretty sure its the same.

MarkyMark wrote:
Can you please follow the thread. I was replying to one person about one facet of his post...

Well, you quoted the whole thing, so it looked like you were responding to the whole thing.

MarkyMark wrote:
...my post above clearly states my opinion on the OP.

I am not interested in memorizing everybody's position.

 Lord Krungharr wrote:
This has been argued many ways before. The Portaglyphed Troops disembark from it, not deepstrike. So if they disembark, aren't they already in it, even if we don't how many dudes will disembark? Librarians in transports disembark from their vehicles, and they generate WC at the beginning of the turn even though they're not standing on the table.

That's the only reason I could think of why the Horrors would have a Warp Charge.

Well it depends on if the horrors count as coming in from reserve or not is my guess. I play that psykers can shoot the turn they come in but others may argue differently.

 DarthOvious wrote:

 Lord Krungharr wrote:
This has been argued many ways before. The Portaglyphed Troops disembark from it, not deepstrike. So if they disembark, aren't they already in it, even if we don't how many dudes will disembark? Librarians in transports disembark from their vehicles, and they generate WC at the beginning of the turn even though they're not standing on the table.

That's the only reason I could think of why the Horrors would have a Warp Charge.

Well it depends on if the horrors count as coming in from reserve or not is my guess. I play that psykers can shoot the turn they come in but others may argue differently.

Psykers can shoot witchfire powers the turn they come in (unless it is a blast/template and they have to Snapfire). The problem, is by the time the Horrors come into the game, Psykers have already generated Warp Charges.

And of course there is the whole thing on whether or not they even generate a power (I'd be surprised if GW said no).

they are spawned at the end of the movement phase, witchfire is generated in the shooting phase so yes they get to shoot just like disembarking from a vehicle

 necronspurs2012 wrote:
they are spawned at the end of the movement phase, witchfire is generated in the shooting phase so yes they get to shoot just like disembarking from a vehicle

Where are they getting a Warp Charge from to fuel the power? They spawn at the end of the movement phase. At the start of the movement phase psykers generate Warp Charges. where were they at the start of the Movement phase?