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I'm considering proxying my jetbikes as Spears for a few games, see how they play, as I have been driving everyone at my FLGS wild with my all-shooty lists. I want to make the game more fun for everyone involved, so adding a unit of Spears might be a good idea, especially as assault armies are rather common locally and playing against such an elusive army that focuses on massive amounts of firepower could be considered unfun. That said, I'm not a proponent of: "if it's a casual game it shouldn't matter what you take". I always make a list that works well and in synergy, And there are very few units I can't make work when I set my mind to it.

Out of the people who fielded them, have you ever made them work for you? Perhaps even competitively. And in what setup have you achieved that, if indeed you did. Cue the Helldrake, there's just one player with 1 Drake in his list, which shouldn't be an issue for my list. So pretend Helldrakes don't exist, how good are the Spears in such a meta?

They are fantastic at lower point levels. Their combat ability, especially with an attached Autarch with lance, is nearly unsurpassed for their points.

I dominated a local campaign in the lower point levels using them, EBJ, and warp spiders. It was a lot of fun too!

At higher levels they become a lot more fragile due to the increase in opposing firepower. I found that they move from an attack role to a defense role. They are best used for digging survivable but slow killing units out of combat like wraith guard/lords/knights.

They are useful at higher and lower point levels for three things as well:

1) Threat bubble - they project a threat range of 13-24 inches for their move + assault. This can be used to play on the psychology of the enemies.

2) Objective denial - last minute dash and deny (no explaining necessary)

3) Securing Linebreaker (no explanation necessary)

Singing Spears are great at hitting weak units an opponent may have...Primarily scoring units like Cultists, Necron Warriors, Scouts or what have you. Adding an Autarch with some Iyanden weapons (an AP2 Lance for example) will greatly add to the killing power as will throwing in a Banshee Mask.

This unit can outflank and has the mobility to make up for a bad roll for sides which is not a bad idea if there are some back-field objectives/units you want to get to.

Ultimately, it will still cost a fair amount of points but it is fun if you have enough other things to keep the opponent busy.

They're better than they've ever been, and they still blow.

They simply do nothing you actually need an Eldar unit to do. And they do all that (nothing) for a ridiculously over-costed price.

They don't have enough punch to do their job without having a bike/lance autarch tucked in the same unit. Or any iyanden bike HQ with the relic lance might work, but if you take that, make the exarch take challenges so you don't pop your own expensive unit with the spirit shatter effect.

While the unit is better overall now, using them is harder since the days of tall LOS blocking area terrain are pretty much over. They also took away the exarch's shuriken cannon option which gave you some reasonable firepower from behind cover with MSM while biding your time.

They're also high priced for an elite squad that will struggle with 2+ save enemies, though the exarch has a very good chance of killing a 2+ save character in a challenge.

They can be made to work, but are a finesse unit that needs a deft hand, and warp spiders can generally do the job with cheaper bodies, greater versatility, and no need to be babysat by an autarch.

I'm considering 6-8 Spears, adding the Autarch equipped with Celestial Lance and the Farseer with Shard of Anaris. Ridiculously expensive, but I like the idea of it. Plus, I have a lot of other stuff on the table which pelts away at my enemy. from a distance.

DarknessEternal - what do you mean? They have the Eldar mobility, Eldar punching power and with the setup I mentioned they will kill any tank in assault or even in shooting and will slaughter infantry inside. Their biggest issue is lack of grenades, but hohum, that's why you have the Banshee Mask and you just have to weather through the return blows. With a T4 and 3+ save, that's not such a terrible thing. They're not Banshees.

 DarknessEternal wrote:
They're better than they've ever been, and they still blow.

They simply do nothing you actually need an Eldar unit to do. And they do all that (nothing) for a ridiculously over-costed price.

Great way to answer the OPs question. He was clearly asking for anyone's narrow minded, tunnel vision restricted, opinion on the unit, and there you are!

A question:
How are they ineffective? And why in the world did someone say that they should be used against Cultists...? I mean, come on! They should wreck any unit with 3+ armour with no problem, right?

Higher Initiative, S6 AP3 shooting AND attacks on first round.
That and the fact that Exarch has a decent chance to instakill a multiwound Marine.

Just theoryhammer here, I've only seen them used once when they Outflanked and ripped a 10-man squad of Marines, ripping them apart in the first round of combat (above average luck there...)

Shining spears went from laughable in the old codex to playable in the new edition/dex. They still suffer from low attacks, but have gained speed, hammer of wrath, and skilled rider stock. With a decent chance of making the charge at a reduced cost, they are good for taking out other small elite units, small shooty units(long fangs) or armor. Due to their lack of attacks and high cost, do not waste them by sending them at ork boys, cultists or guard blobs. They can't do enough damage and the volume of overwatch/return attacks will kill them every time.

For the squad, 6 is probably good. An exarch with a star lance is required. Monster hunter is also an auto take(MC's are the best target for spears and with this power they can easily roll a tervigon, riptide, cantopek spyder. Dreadknights and wraithlords/knights are difficult, but it is possible) with hit and run being strongly encouraged. Boost into position turn1, shoot then charge and murder something. Try to keep the squad around and finish them off during your opponents turn, or hit and run out.

As for HQ boosting, a farseer helps the squad by providing prescience. With such few high S attacks, they need to connect and this makes it happen. Getting forwarning, invisibility or fortune will also be a great help. An autarch provides attacks and challenge utility. Banshee mask as stated, but I would advise against the celestial lance. If your in the 2nd round of an assault during the opponents assault phase you need to win. The lance won't help here, and the exploding character is a gimmick. Take the soulshrive instead. More Ap2 and the ability to get big fast. Exarch challenges and Autarch kills a few models, getting to S6 or so, then wins further challenges.

The ideal scenario is for the spears to pop a high priority transport and then murder whatever is inside. A singing spear on the farseer and melta gun on the autarch along with the star lance gives you a decent shot to pop even a land raider.

I would like to add that having a Hit & Run makes you much more versatile than having Monster Hunter.

Best way for me to utilise Shining Spears is to use them as a fast shock troop. SS (pun intented) will simply move 36" in my first turn in a position from where they can get in range of their weapons on second turn which in most cases also equals being in a charge range. Preferably a LoS block would be nice, but their Skilled Rider gives boost to their Jink already.

On the second turn they move out of their position shoot a target, which often is a soft transport. If it breaks, they will just assault move to the next position leading to a second target. If it survives, they will charge the transport and most likely they will destroy it and then they use Hit & Run to jump to the next position (again preferably behind LoS block)

On a third or fourth turn they get to their primary target and wreck it too and then it is just a one or two rounds to shake hands of a fellow player who seems like he is going to mentally and spiritually melt away.

I had not played Eldar army before the release of the new Codex and as I happen to buy every Codex that comes out I was just eyeing out what kind of units and lists might come against me when I play with my other armies.

However when I reached to Shining Spears the devil inside me started laughing more manical than it had when checking windriders and rangers and I was totally sold to the Great Idea of having a freaking fast army along with infiltrating troops and a good firebase on my own table-end.

First game with Eldars for me was a bit over a week from the release of the Codex and I played 750pts 2 vs. 2 game with a Space Marines player on my side against DA and IG players.

SS and Jetbike Autarch with Mantle of Laughing Gas just outperformed everything else that I had on my list.

SS Broke Chimera on my second turn when they came out of a backyard of a building which prevented any enemy to shoot at them. My Windriders slaughtered enough of the Chimera's innards to cause them to fail a Morale Test. After that they Assault Moved to another building back and took few hits and wounds from another Chimera but no casualties to them because of their Cover Saves.

Next up was that Chimera and it did not break to their shooting so a charge to the Chimera was enough to destroy. Hit & Run gave 13" move towards enemy's table edge whera a Leman Russ with Battle Cannon was waiting.

On a fourth turn they blewed up that Russ and Hit & Run move let them go behind a huge wall near table's end at enemys table edge. Behind the wall was an Aegis Defence line with some Guard.

On a fifth turn SS attacked IG manning the Aegis and caused them to flee. I pretty much obliterated IG army with my SS.

At first I thought that this was just a beginners luck as it was a first game with me playing Eldars but SS has shone on every game I have played with Eldars and the whole Eldar army works perfectly for me as I can position my forces very fast where I want them and I can also disrupt my enemy with other stuff too.

Another use for them is for point efficient Str 8 Lance. Exarch with just a Star Lance is 45 pts and can put out 4 "shots" from 18". The two other spears add another 50 pts, some resiliency, and a little additional dmg vs. AV 14; this is the cheapest way to get BL equivalent shots. I'd agree with Dr. Serling, take MH too and that puts the squad up to 100 pts. Compare the damage output and resiliency to 2 BL WWs, which everyone seems to like.

How did you H&R from combat with a wrecked vehicle?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Dr. Serling wrote:
For the squad, 6 is probably good. An exarch with a star lance is required. Monster hunter is also an auto take(MC's are the best target for spears and with this power they can easily roll a tervigon, riptide, cantopek spyder. Dreadknights and wraithlords/knights are difficult, but it is possible) with hit and run being strongly encouraged. Boost into position turn1, shoot then charge and murder something. Try to keep the squad around and finish them off during your opponents turn, or hit and run out.

As for HQ boosting, a farseer helps the squad by providing prescience. With such few high S attacks, they need to connect and this makes it happen. Getting forwarning, invisibility or fortune will also be a great help. An autarch provides attacks and challenge utility. Banshee mask as stated, but I would advise against the celestial lance. If your in the 2nd round of an assault during the opponents assault phase you need to win. The lance won't help here, and the exploding character is a gimmick. Take the soulshrive instead. More Ap2 and the ability to get big fast. Exarch challenges and Autarch kills a few models, getting to S6 or so, then wins further challenges.

I was considering 8 because that gives me 2 more ablative wounds. The point of the unit in my list would be to be a fire magnet and a hammer while my anvil(Wave Serpents, Warp Spiders and a Wraithknight) come in position to really start destroying the opposition. Of course that wouldn't win me the game. My WRJ will, because they will be ignored for the whole time(or else target-priority really went to hell or I am simply one turn away from getting tabled). I can outflank SS if necessary, with the Autarch it's a reliable tactic, but I'm reluctant to put my 450 unit in reserve, especially with the Farseer who can't cast powers on the turn he arrives from reserve. So what I need are bodies to survive getting into combat. That's my assessment anyway. 6 wouldn't be as reliable as 8. Or at least I assume they wouldn't.

I will consider Soulshrive, it seems like a great weapon, I just didn't want to sacrifice my first turn of charging on a S3 weapon. However, I see I was wrong at one thing about the Celestial Lance. It's only S8 in range. In melee it's S6, which sucks. Star Lance is S8, and a Remnant of Glory type weapon is S6, all other stats being the same, except the gimmick that would most likely threaten my squad more than it would my enemy's. Doesn't make much sense, tbh. As for psychic powers, I'd most likely roll twice on Divination and once on Runes of Fate. Every power from Divination is useful in some way for the SS, while Runes of Fate only has Fortune and Doom and Telepathy really only has Invisi.

 Araenion wrote:
How did you H&R from combat with a wrecked vehicle?

Disordered charge to a two Chimeras.

Second one was so close to the first because that field had lots of one floor buildings in the middle.

I would like to see someone take them in force.

3 9-man squads with Hit & Run Star Lance Exarch could be epic!

Could be an interesting idea for a Saim Haim (sorry for butchering the spelling) list!

They would be extremely hard hitting and, fortunately for a glass cannon unit, totally expendable as they don't score (except on the scouring).

Shining Spears have worked for me in the handful of games i have played with them as counter assault.
Whenever my eldar jetbikes are assaulted and tied up, the shining spears charge in like mounted cavalry and punish the offending unit so that my other jetbikes are freed from the combat.
I also used to play them as a combat babysitter for my seer council, when the council was tarpitted, i would use the same tactic and charge in the SS. Thus freeing the council from the pit.

 Swastakowey wrote:
Having an all aspect warrior army i feel obliged to use them. After paying the huge dollars for just three of them i felt a bit ripped off, then i looked into their rules and used them (as the models look awesome) and bam, i flank em and drive three of them strait towards enemy vehicles (usually monoliths or leman russes) and they have a huge kill rate.

My opponents hate my army for the speed they have, they especially hate my warp spiders and shining spears as they render enemy vehicles uselss in the right spots.

I dont advise more than three as you'll find the exarch does the most damage and they are pricey.

Totally agree! You are pretty much just there for the Exarch!

 Swastakowey wrote:

 warpspider89 wrote:

 Swastakowey wrote:
Having an all aspect warrior army i feel obliged to use them. After paying the huge dollars for just three of them i felt a bit ripped off, then i looked into their rules and used them (as the models look awesome) and bam, i flank em and drive three of them strait towards enemy vehicles (usually monoliths or leman russes) and they have a huge kill rate.

My opponents hate my army for the speed they have, they especially hate my warp spiders and shining spears as they render enemy vehicles uselss in the right spots.

I dont advise more than three as you'll find the exarch does the most damage and they are pricey.

Totally agree! You are pretty much just there for the Exarch!

Im normally the kind of player that says everything is useful but with the shinning spears that rule means nothing. the other guys in the squad do nothing at all over all usually.

Although most people forget they have the shurikan catapults underneath which is the only time the normal shining spears have a chance to do some hurt.

Well.. to be fair the normal guys do cause some extra casualties against MEQ. Together with a banshee mask laser lance autarch they train wreck MEQ units.

Jetbikes in general give also an aspect that you can't mathhammer to your army.

You can actually ignore objectives on your side of the board for first turns as you can jump straight to your enemy, shoot them on second turn and assault move back or behind LoS block to prevent your enemy shooting or assaulting you.

Then after doing this for a few turns you just turbo-boost back to objectives on your side of the table edge.

This is just something you can't do with a slow footslogga army.

I have been thinking of using Iyanden to add wraiths as a troop to get something to the objectives on my side.

Too bad that Wave Serpents are so useful than other skimmers that having Wind Riders as a Troops is like shooting your leg in terms of WAAC style list effectivity. Luckily everyone does not WAAC and this is actually biggest issue when playing against other Eldar players as Wave Serpents will rip your jetbikes.

I use mostly two three men Shining Spears squads with an Exarch with Star Lance and Hit & Run.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
This is the base of the list I'll use in 1750 to 1850 point games.

Autarch [70]
+ Eldar jetbike [15]
= 85
Farseer [100]
+ Eldar jetbike [15]
= 115

6 Rangers
= 72
6 Dire Avengers
= 78
• Wave Serpent
= 115
6 Dire Avengers
= 78
• Wave Serpent
= 115
6 Windrider Guardians [102]
+ 2× shuriken cannon [20]
= 122
6 Windrider Guardians [102]
+ 2× shuriken cannon [20]
= 122
6 Windrider Guardians [102]
+ 2× shuriken cannon [20]
= 122

3 Shining Spears [75]
+ Shining Spear Exarch [10]
+ star lance [10]
+ Hit & Run [15]
= 110
3 Shining Spears [75]
+ Shining Spear Exarch [10]
+ star lance [10]
+ Hit & Run [15]
= 110
Crimson Hunter Exarch
= 180

3 War Walkers
= 180

1 604 points

And no, I don't worship the devil although there are lots of number six in that list

The point margin lets me fix some gear and weapon options for both 1750 and 1850 pts. games quite well.

Only problem is that those Eldar jetbike models suck in terms of their looks at least for me. It looks like the old war veterans have gathered from their homes for the elderly people to have a pint at the local pub and decided to use British bikes instead of a cabs while listening to Easy Rider.

So it tooks an box of Dark Eldar Reaver Jetbikes to make a Hybrid Jetbikes for each four to six Eldar Jetbikes, which adds some extra to the cost along with the time needed to make that conversion. Still it does justify that extra hassle when each jetbike in your army is unique and you have 26 of them in your army.



This the Matriarch of the Pirate Fleet before being painted (counts as Autarch with Jetbike and Fusion Gun or Laser Lance)

Can't find complete painted photo from my phone right now but here is a paint WIP showing the color scheme.

I actually like Shining Spears in 5th Ed, due to AP 2 power weapons to wreck other elites. But everyone ran Banshee's then because they were cheaper.

The problem now is that they are an Elite slot that has a hard time dealing with other Elite slots. Throw enough HQs with them to make them better, but I have to argue you could do the same thing with a normal Jetbike squad with a Warlock.

I don't need SS to wreck vehicles, I have other stuff that can do the same thing cheaper. Are they useful? Sure, if you use them right. But you can say that of a lot of stuff. Me, I would rather have Scorpions or Clowns.

They are actually Fast Attack, which does not have much competitive units other than SS.

The fast attack slot is stacked... Warp Spiders, Swooping Hawks, Shining Spears, Crimson Hunters, even Vipers are great.

I would say FA slots go like this: Warp Spiders > Swooping Hawks > Shining Spears = Crimson Hunters > Vypers > Hemlock Wraithfighters.

At least when looking at it in a vacuum.

i agree with that, for whatever that's worth. lol

Honestly, Spears needed AP2 and a pistol. That would make them good vs any targets. As it is, they are simply not effective enough vs things that eldar have problems with. If they were AP2, they could be a riptide hunter or go after centurions. The would also be good at taking out tanks, rather than needing 5s/6s to pen most vehicles' rear. At AP3, they are relegated to easier to deal with threats like MEQ that eldar already have no problem with. The additional attack would put them at 3A on the charge, which is respectable. 1A is not for assault units, as assault marines have shown for ages.

I beg to differ. I think all they needed were grenades. AP2 weapons would skyrocket their cost and tbh, with so much almost-rending how do you have trouble dealing with TEQ and not MEQ? When I see terminators on the table, my smile is much eviler and much wider than when I see just marines.

When the TEQ isnt in the front. 18 or 12" range on all those pseudo-rending weapons. Centurions and Riptides are both problems for eldar as they have to cross a lot of distance to get anything thats particularly effective vs them into range.


They are currently very overcosted for what they do. They arent tough as they have the defensive stats of marines. They dont hit hard with 1A each and only S3 hammer. They dont have special rules that make them effective at being assassins (scout). All they do is try to get into melee with units like cultists or small squads of marines and hope they can wipe them on the charge. Thats ALL they do. With AP2 and 2A from CCW they are still going to be expensive due to the nature of assault, but more reasonable as they can perform a niche role.

Suncannons don't have an issue with range... neither do Prisms, heavy wraithcannons, falcons, and crimson hunters.

What the shining spears do have is outflank. which confers to a character joining the unit. sweet.

Has anyone actually played them yet? or are we all just theory-hammering this question?