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So I was re-reading the Blood Angels codex for the billionth time earlier, in the Librarian entry, it basically a describes how the Librarians are closely monitored in case the succumb to the Black Rage so they can be put down immediately otherwise they are to dangerous. Yet on the following page in Mephistons entry it tells how he fell to the Black Rage, and took to the field as part of the death company.


Say what......?

Does Mephiston not fall to the black rage in battle and is then entombed beneath rubble, emerging after mastering the Black Rage?

I might be half remembering it, but if it's along those line he's probably the exception to the rule.

 Medium of Death wrote:
Does Mephiston not fall to the black rage in battle and is then entombed beneath rubble, emerging after mastering the Black Rage?

I might be half remembering it, but if it's along those line he's probably the exception to the rule.

Nope it says he was 'inducted into the Death Company' which would suggest before a battle, and the realised. Black Rage doesn't ten to happen mid battle, that is more the Red Thirsts territory.

Its been a minute since I've read the codex. But I thought mephiston like got locked up or went into hiding and overcame the black rage with his mind. Which is why he is so powerful.

Omfgorzzz wrote:
Its been a minute since I've read the codex. But I thought mephiston like got locked up or went into hiding and overcame the black rage with his mind. Which is why he is so powerful.

He over came it whilst being crushed under a building, during the battle that he was inducted in the Death Company. A battle which he never should have been involved in, because if like they say they do in the Librarian entry, he would have been put down as soon as he began to show signs of the Black Rage.

Was he a librarian at the time? Or did his powers emerge later?

just a thought.

Quoted from Blood .angels 5th edition.

'Mephiston was once Brother Calistarius, a Librarian of exceptional valour and strength of character...'

Yep, it says he was a Librarian who was inducted into the Death Company and sent into battle. The opposing page (Librarian entry) says the BA Librarians "swiftly" kill other BA Librarians when the succumb to the Black Rage. Guess that latter part explains why there are no Death Company Furioso Dreadnoughts.

Maybe Calistarius was an exception or perhaps the practice of killing Librarians with the Black Rage did not begin until Calistarius became Mephiston (which is an exceptionally macabre thought). But I agree the two entries don't seem to give any leeway to explain the apparent contradiction. The only thing to go on, regarding the idea that they started killing Black Rage Librarians after Mephiston, is the rumors that Mephiston only overcame the Black Rage by replacing it with something worse.

More likely, it has to do with not wanting to stat out Death Company Librarians.

 Manchu wrote:

More likely, it has to do with not wanting to stat out Death Company Librarians.

This. imo black rage libbys are not any more dangerous than normal marines, they are still able to determine friend from foe, its just 10,000 years back friends that sanguinius knew.

 raiden wrote:

 Manchu wrote:

More likely, it has to do with not wanting to stat out Death Company Librarians.

This. imo black rage libbys are not any more dangerous than normal marines, they are still able to determine friend from foe, its just 10,000 years back friends that sanguinius knew.

Would be a cool concept, a Death Co. Librarian that has the potential of going full rage machine and turning into a daemon prince.


@manchu, I like the idea that they no longer do it because of what has happened to Mephiston.

Actually I think this is fairly simple to explain. The Librarian entry specifies that BA Librarians kill other Librarians that have fallen to the Black Rage, it says nothing about this being a mandate across the entire chapter. So the simple explanation is that when Calistarius/Mephiston fell, there were no other BA Librarians present.

 Orblivion wrote:
Actually I think this is fairly simple to explain. The Librarian entry specifies that BA Librarians kill other Librarians that have fallen to the Black Rage, it says nothing about this being a mandate across the entire chapter. So the simple explanation is that when Calistarius/Mephiston fell, there were no other BA Librarians present.

That makes the most sense I think. Librarians typically go with a specific Company or battle group solo, so as to preform their duties for that company or detachment for the chapter. I imagine it's rare that more than one librarian is attached to a contingent of Blood Angels unless it is a major campaign they are participating in. If librarians 'police' their own exclusively, then if a Librarian falls to the Black Rage and no other is around to execute them, they are probably inducted into the Death Company and led by a Chaplain as usual, which is what happened to Calistarius before he was trapped and subsequently reborn as Mephiston.

Good stuff, and interesting discussion I'm looking forwards to picking my Blood Angels back up once I finish my I.G. off.

Take it easy everyone.

-Red__Thirst-

But surely if the chaplains/astorath know that the Librarians are too dangerous to be allowed to fall they would put them done. But then this leads to the question, does the Reclusiam know the dangers of a fallen Librarian, or is it a dark secret kept within the Administartum.

If it is a secret of the Administratum, why would BA Librarians know about it?

 Manchu wrote:
If it is a secret of the Administratum, why would BA Librarians know about it?

Sorry that was a slip of the tongue, I was talking to some about the adminstratum and writing this, I meant the Librarius

In the 3rd edition codex Mephiston's story was that he fell to the black rage during a huge battle, and was subsequently buried under some rubble for the remainder of the battle. While physically trapped, he was forced to use his mastery of psychics to conquer the black rage. It specifically referenced that he was the only blood angel to do so.

But fluff is often altered from edition to edition, so I don't know if there is going to be a solid answer.

I don't remember anything about librarian killing specifically, more that the marines who fell had their wires crossed mentally and believed they were someone ancient from the fall of terra.

Also, I never heard that mepheston was callistarius... That is the name of the blood angel librarian in the space hulk games.

Just read the parts of the Codex you're discussing. Just a thought: It says that the 'mad' librarian is put down : swiftly and mercifully, before he wreaks untold harm upon the Chapter that he once loyally served.
Couldn't it be that Mephiston (or brother Calistarius) was induced into the Death Company and sent on a suicide mission? It might be far-fetched, but it doesn't say specifically how they kill the Librarian.
Might be an explanation?

Death Company are too unstable and dangerous to keep around - even those that survive their final battle without life-threatening injury are put down. And the DC fluff also suggests it's made up of those that fall to the Black Rage "on the eve of battle", not earlier cases collected for later use. Doesn't the BA High Chaplain handle the "regular" cases that are only psychotic marines?

It stands to reason the Librarians would be swift to put down any of their own if they notice him going strange while back at base, not only because of the rage but the risk of possession if the Librarian isn't kept properly focused. In the field he'd be noticed by the Chaplain and set aside for the DC rituals.

See that's another GW mess up. The black rage only makes them see themselves as sangy back in the HH and some enemy as Horus. The red thirst is after a while. What causes BA to turn into mindless killing machines. BR victims are actually very consistent in telling friend from foe. Its just a mercy to kill them. Not a necessitie.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
PS eventually the red thirst overcomes those that fall to the black rage.

 raiden wrote:
See that's another GW mess up. The black rage only makes them see themselves as sangy back in the HH and some enemy as Horus. The red thirst is after a while. What causes BA to turn into mindless killing machines. BR victims are actually very consistent in telling friend from foe. Its just a mercy to kill them. Not a necessitie.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
PS eventually the red thirst overcomes those that fall to the black rage.

This is true, but a Librarian that has no sense of restraint or focus is a high risk for possession, which is something other Librarians would understand all too well. That is why the Blood Angel Librarians take it upon themselves to kill any of their own that fall to the Black Rage. Like I said earlier though, this seems to be an unwritten rule within the Librarius itself and not an order throughout the chapter. It stands to reason that whichever chaplain was on hand when Calistarius fell treated him just like any other member of the Death Company.