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 Kirasu wrote:
I once was told that my digital codex (back when I made PDFs of everything.. and still do) wasn't legit cause I could edit it. Is that true? Sure I guess? but it's INCREDIBLY easy to find out its a fake by merely picking up ANOTHER copy of the book.

That seems to be this TO's point - he can't pick up another copy of, say, the Sisters codex to cross-check (as it's not physically available in the store).

I'm not a fan of the digital codex. Physical books are still faster to use in many situations, and MUCH faster to use if you need to look at more than one book at a time. Plus, I don't have to hand my expensive piece of electronics to my fumble-fingered opponent.

Niexist wrote:After reading this thread, and finding out that people are manipulating digital codexes to add special rules, I'm not sure I want to play someone who doesn't have a physical copy.

This will not be an issue at any large event, all the judges know the rules very well. Also the tos usually have copies of every codex to cross reference with.

Niexist wrote:
After reading this thread, and finding out that people are manipulating digital codexes to add special rules, I'm not sure I want to play someone who doesn't have a physical copy.

I wouldn't worry about it, Dice are much easier to manipulate and they have been around for decades.

Given the time, money and incentive (and if I play warhammer, I probably have all three in abundance already), I could probably alter a physical codex.

Whats to say that your opponents physical codex is legit?

 krootman. wrote:

Niexist wrote:After reading this thread, and finding out that people are manipulating digital codexes to add special rules, I'm not sure I want to play someone who doesn't have a physical copy.

This will not be an issue at any large event, all the judges know the rules very well. Also the tos usually have copies of every codex to cross reference with.

This event (the one I referenced in the OP) is a large event. It is a 2 day GT and will likely have over 64 players. It isn't a huge Nova/BAO/Adepticon event, but it is a legit GT.

 punchdub wrote:

 krootman. wrote:

Niexist wrote:After reading this thread, and finding out that people are manipulating digital codexes to add special rules, I'm not sure I want to play someone who doesn't have a physical copy.

This will not be an issue at any large event, all the judges know the rules very well. Also the tos usually have copies of every codex to cross reference with.

This event (the one I referenced in the OP) is a large event. It is a 2 day GT and will likely have over 64 players. It isn't a huge Nova/BAO/Adepticon event, but it is a legit GT.

Something to consider is that if you have all the codexes on your electronic device and his doesn't match yours you can call the TO. Cheating should be less likely to happen if everyone has every codex at their fingertips.

I will always have a physical copy of my army's book where possible.

But I keep PDf scans and ePub versions of every codex on my 7" tablet for reference at tournaments so I can look up other peoples rules myself and double check things.

With regards to rulings and cheating I think the resolution is simple:

There should be a central up to date copy of the rule book, every legal codex, every legal supplement, every legal Forgeworld book and every relevant FAQ for the judges to refer to so that no matter what anyone has edited into their PDF it is not possible to continually cheat.

 marv335 wrote:
I only buy codecies in digital format now.
If a tourney bans digital, I won't be going.
It's that simple.

Same here. I do not support stores that don't allow them.

All I can say is, if you ban digital codices, you are clearly a heretic and deserve retribution.

all should ban em so peeps stop buying the things and they actually start giving people hardcopy versions instead of trying to rip peeps off with the digital ones.

Tbh im not against digital copies but I am when its a fraction of the cost to make but they charge the same as a hardcopy

They really, really don't cost a fraction of what a physical copy costs,

the costs of printing/distribution for the physical copy is offset by the costs of

maintaining a digital distribution service,
programing for multiple platforms (which they now do), licencing fees to things like iTunes,
and extra tax costs (in many countries physical books are tax free, or low tax compared to digital files

marginal differences at best

The problem with electronic only codexes is that unless you have a hard copy, or your own copy that you bought as the TO, you don't know that it hasn't been edited. Once a file is on a computer, it's very easy to edit it, including those apple files, or .mobi, or any other format. For example, I could take the BA codex and make the assault marines all strength 10, WS 7, 3 wounds, 5 points each, and the only way to verify that my codex was wrong would be to have another copy., physical or electronic. It requires a second copy. If the TO doesn't have one, it's a bit hard to verify. They are great, but they do raise new issues.

 troa wrote:
The problem with electronic only codexes is that unless you have a hard copy, or your own copy that you bought as the TO, you don't know that it hasn't been edited. Once a file is on a computer, it's very easy to edit it, including those apple files, or .mobi, or any other format. For example, I could take the BA codex and make the assault marines all strength 10, WS 7, 3 wounds, 5 points each, and the only way to verify that my codex was wrong would be to have another copy., physical or electronic. It requires a second copy. If the TO doesn't have one, it's a bit hard to verify. They are great, but they do raise new issues.

And I don't know if my opponent cooked his dice or modified his tape measure. Its going to be very apparent when someone is cheating.

I have pre-purchased the Inquisitional codex.

That being said...I would not blame a TO that banned it if there was not a hard copy from GW made available for him to look at or a mechanism that GW designed that a TO could use to quickly determine of an electronic copy had not been altered that a player brought in.

Some people cheat, that is just a fact. I have caught players with loaded dice, one with mercury loaded dice that could be tapped to produce any side he desired.

Modification of both the Apple and the emobi codex's has already happen and been caught.

Unless GW finds a way quickly for TO's to easily establish that a copy is genuine I would not blame them for banning them.

What else are they supposed to do? It is easy to say a TO should just but a copy of every electronic codex and supplement but that costs a lot of money.




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 Ravenous D wrote:

 troa wrote:
The problem with electronic only codexes is that unless you have a hard copy, or your own copy that you bought as the TO, you don't know that it hasn't been edited. Once a file is on a computer, it's very easy to edit it, including those apple files, or .mobi, or any other format. For example, I could take the BA codex and make the assault marines all strength 10, WS 7, 3 wounds, 5 points each, and the only way to verify that my codex was wrong would be to have another copy., physical or electronic. It requires a second copy. If the TO doesn't have one, it's a bit hard to verify. They are great, but they do raise new issues.

And I don't know if my opponent cooked his dice or modified his tape measure. Its going to be very apparent when someone is cheating.

A crooked dice yes, a tape measure yes, a altered electronic codex, not unless there is another to compare it to.....

I'm sure if someone went to enough trouble they could cheat a printed codex as well. Should we ban the use of dice?

If a store or a club is running regular tournaments then the TO should probably be picking up a digital copy of the digital only codexes

even if they need to move a bit of cash from the entry fees to pay for it

alternatively they could allow them only if the owner was willing to delete the one on their ipad or whatever and re-download it with the TO supervising where it came from (assuming you can re-download them for free like you can with kindle books)

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
(assuming you can re-download them for free like you can with kindle books)

You can.

 Lutharr101 wrote:
all should ban em so peeps stop buying the things and they actually start giving people hardcopy versions instead of trying to rip peeps off with the digital ones.

Tbh im not against digital copies but I am when its a fraction of the cost to make but they charge the same as a hardcopy

Uh, the digital books are available at a steep discount (~30-35% off for non-Blood Angels books). You just need to buy the ePub version instead of the iBook one.

 Dozer Blades wrote:
I'm sure if someone went to enough trouble they could cheat a printed codex as well. Should we ban the use of dice?

I have seen events that supplied dice... some just so they had funky event-specific dice, but it also helps remove the issue of 'special' dice.

It is actually for the best but requires more of an effort.

Again, I'll say it: If I really wanted to, I could alter a physical codex.

If your really that worried about people cheating, then maybe you should collect stamps. Don't take it out on us honorable players.

I also resent the implication that if the possibility exists for someone to cheat (by, say, altering a digital codex) that my digital copy can't be trusted because I might be cheating. By that logic, dice should be banned, because the possibility exists that I might load my dice. Additionally, I might bring 2-3 separate army lists with me to an organized event, and field whatever list best suits whoever I am fighting in that particular round. I've NEVER seen a TO go around and check player's armies against the list they turned in at the start time.

It would be really easy for me to swap army lists and Leman Russ turrets each game, depending on what my opponent has. Or swap characters. Or replace those meltaguns with flamers if I happen to run across a 120 Ork boyz list.

Point is, there are SO MANY other options to cheat, that to alter my digital codex to do so is the most time consuming, and least effective, means to do so.

I'm not sure what the problem is with them. Arguably they're more convenient to have than sheafs of paper crammed into a codex. Plus you're not spending forever trying to find the reference you're after which would put your opponent's nose outta joint a bit.