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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/11/16 05:17:22
Subject: Re:How do you kill a riptide?
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Grisly Ghost Ark Driver
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streamdragon wrote: It's a team effort to have fun, but that apparently doesn't extend to knowingly using multiple highly overpowered/undercosted units?
What the frell am I even reading here?
my opinion. Just as your comment that a unit being overpowered and/or undercosted means your opponent should only field them in limited quantities if at all is one of yours? Isn't it nice how the internet works?
In any case this has devolved a bit from discussing strategy so that is the last of my comments you'll have to decipher
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/11/16 08:35:58
Subject: How do you kill a riptide?
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Boosting Space Marine Biker
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Seriously, this is a tactics thread guys.
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Solid Fists 2000 wip |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/11/16 14:06:50
Subject: Re:How do you kill a riptide?
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Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot
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Zagman wrote: Mr.Omega wrote:
Nice. Ad Hominem.
You fail to mention just how many points this costs.
Answer: 3 Fifths of jacks**t.
185 points for a BS3 S8 AP2 pie plate dispenser with infinite range and immunity to being instant killed by most heavy weaponry before you even consider the other features is absolutely drop-dead pants-on-head level stupid.
You fail to mention that it has a 1/6 chance of failing to fire.
Ah yes, failing to fire the gun once per game completely balances out everything.
You fail to mention being BS3 and having a huge chance of scattering
Big deal. Its the sheer amount of firepower it churns out for its asinine cost is the issue here; when it connects you're still boned.
This, deals a relatively low amount of Damage. Fact.
You have not supplied ample evidence to make this claim, and to call it fact after such a handwave suggestion is just obnoxious. Its a S8 AP2 pie plate. In no world is that not an effective weapon. Even a BS1 AP2 pie plate auto-hits 33% of the time.
Compared to weapons of other races and the availability of such weapons, it is incredibly valuable; unbelievably so when you consider it effectively has infinite range.
You also assume every Riptide has the SMS, which is not the case and interestingly enough will often deal more reliable damage then the Overcharged Ion Accelerator.
Having a TL 18'' Meltagun or TL Plasma Gun is hardly a consolation in the place of SMS.
you cannot assume that the Riptide always fires, always hits
The problem is that it does, will and usually hits, I mean have you even heard of Murphy's Law? You cannot afford to ignore it. There is less than a 20% chance of not being able to fire it. There is at least a 40-50% chance of hitting, and that's not factoring in marker lights (but I'm sure you'll just ramble on about how that won't always happen, because that is a completely legitimate train of thought) or Buffmanders, and that with the Riptide's nature as being almost unkillable even low accuracy doesn't really matter because you'll probably get to fire multiple times.
I suppose I'll bite. Firstly, here is the entire thread I made on the Riptide. http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/562118.page
Points Cost. A Riptide is usually ~200pts, possibly more. Support elements are much much more as well, but you assert they don't need them, so we'll forgo support elements for now.
Low Damage Output of the IA Riptide. Gets Hot S8 AP2 Large Blast at BS3
17% chance of failing to fire
34% chance to Stick its Target.
48% chance to scatter at least one inch. 40% chance it scatters at least 3". 15% chance it scatters at least 6".
You keep crying about its range and how devastating the Overcharged Ion Accelerator is, well, compare it to the Subpar LRBT.
The LRBT hasn't been competitive for a long time so this comparison is already pretty redundant
Vs most Targets the LRBT deals ~15% more damage than the Riptide
Unless the Riptide is using what, a TL FB/PR it is a straight upgrade in firepower. Noone with more than two braincells takes sponsons on an LRBT.
for ~75% the cost which makes it ~150% as effective vs anything that does not have a 2+ save as a long ranged weapon.
A) The LRBT is terrible regardless B) For a 25% increase in cost, the Riptide gets:
-Enough defensive quality to almost never be instant killed, as opposed to an LR
-Jump move
-Practical immunity to all high strength AP3 which would otherwise possibly be effective against an LR
-HB becoming TL and ignores cover, or a TL melta gun so tanks don't bother you, or a TL/PR for even more AP2.
-Massive height, so you rarely have LOS issues.
-Nova Reactor
-5+ Invulnerable
So no, only an idiot would take an LRBT over a Riptide given the choice.
C) You severely understate the importance of keeping AP2. You know half the reason why I don't even take Riptides anymore? Sodding Riptides. A Battlecannon is frigging useless against them.
They have identical range, strength, and the LRBT is more reliable thanks to not Getting Hot and being Ordinance against Vehicles.
I understand that you obviously have so few genuine arguments to draw on, but please quit parading the 17% gets hot chance as being a big deal.
The IA Riptide is obviously better against 2+ saves, but that is it.
It can screw tanks with the melta gun. For 5 points it can get interceptor. Against light vehicles or flyers it can attempt to shoot them down with 3 S7 shots, which isn't terrible, and certainly better than the LRBT.
Did I mention the LRBT is not considered a good unit nor known for its firepower?
So you're admitting this comparison is pointless?
And damn, just wait until its Tyranids and Orks that cost under 10pts each swarming towards the Riptide to tie him up indefinitely and eventually sweep him.
I went to a tournament with 80 Orks a while ago. First game was against a double Riptide list, and this was in a doubles tournament. 15~ Firewarriors and 2 Riptides basically stopped the entire Ork horde dead each turn with weight of casualties in its tracks before any model got within 6'' of his lines, so don't feed me any of that crap.
Melee Hordes are terrible in 6th and have been crappy for some time. Here you're making the classic logical fallacy 'just tie him up in CC!' which almost stimulates aneurysms on me by this point. You cannot rely on tying it up in CC with random charge distance, and it can jump away 6+2D6 a turn. It can happily sit at the back of the board. Ergo tying him in CC is going to be the furthest thing from plausible.
Things are about to get a lot worse for the Riptide, the Meta will shift away from Elite armies as Tyranids, IG, and Orks hit by first half of 2014 greatly reducing the viability of high number Riptide builds.
Pfft. All of this is theoretical.
There are a ton of units which can pump out much much more damage per turn.
How many of those units are almost impossible to kill, have infinite range, interceptor,ignore LOS for most purposes and have the flexibility of AP2? Very, very few, if any.
Damn! That looked like math, and logic, I can't possibly have written it, because you know it was a legitimate train of thought.
Incredibly flawed logic.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
earlofburger wrote:Are there any lists for orks that give them even a miniscule chance of combating cheese tides? I think BW might have a chance to make it to the gunline but not sure, trucks would get gun down way to quick and KKF hordes aren't resilient enough to make it to the enemy. Perhaps full on biker army? And no it's not possible to just simply ignore riptides like many suggest.
@Mr.Omega: nailed it, brace yourself for angry zagman babble
And angry babble? I'm just not a fan of people spouting bad internet wisdom as fact.
And I quote:
This, deals a relatively low amount of Damage. Fact.
At no point in any of my posts have I claimed my opinion as fact. Yet you have. Dayum.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/11/16 14:08:38
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/11/16 14:41:17
Subject: Re:How do you kill a riptide?
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Trustworthy Shas'vre
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We were talking about relative damage output, hence why I choose the non competitive LRBT. I did not factor in Sponsons because they were broken with 6th Ed rules until the new IG book hits.
You needlessly dismissed the firepower argument and listed everything but firepower as justification effectively conceding said argument. A short ranged secondary weapon isn't really relevant in a long ranged firepower comparison in relation to your claims for the IA.
I never argued the LRBT was competitive, just that it puts out more long ranged firepower against most targets in 40k, which is fact. A Riptide is also ~33% more expensive than a LRBT, and doesn't fail to fire ~17%.
Maybe you should look up the definition of relative. Relative to the LRBT, a commonly accepted noncompetitive choice, the unsupported IA Riptide has a lower long ranged damage output, which is directly contradicting your previous claims, ~66% the damage output for cost actually. Relative, look it up.
80 Orks is not a melee horde, and Orks are very slow right now. 80 orks at ~2k, it a moronic comparison especially Firewarriors were more likely to be dealing the damage, or you were an idiot and clumped up. Tyranids are faster and better currently. Both are old codices, and both will get better and likely faster with their new books. Speed is a trend is 6th Codices. Also, playing on tables with proper LOS blocking terrain is a must.
Thanks for playing, you have been found lacking. Have a nice day.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/11/16 15:00:41
Subject: Re:How do you kill a riptide?
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Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot
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Zagman wrote:We were talking about relative damage output, hence why I choose the non competitive LRBT. I did not factor in Sponsons because they were broken with 6th Ed rules until the new IG book hits.
You needlessly dismissed the firepower argument and listed everything but firepower as justification effectively conceding said argument. A short ranged secondary weapon isn't really relevant in a long ranged firepower comparison in relation to your claims for the IA.
I never argued the LRBT was competitive, just that it puts out more long ranged firepower against most targets in 40k, which is fact. A Riptide is also ~33% more expensive than a LRBT, and doesn't fail to fire ~17%.
Maybe you should look up the definition of relative. Relative to the LRBT, a commonly accepted noncompetitive choice, the unsupported IA Riptide has a lower long ranged damage output, which is directly contradicting your previous claims, ~66% the damage output for cost actually. Relative, look it up.
80 Orks is not a melee horde, and Orks are very slow right now. 80 orks at ~2k, it a moronic comparison especially Firewarriors were more likely to be dealing the damage, or you were an idiot and clumped up. Tyranids are faster and better currently. Both are old codices, and both will get better and likely faster with their new books. Speed is a trend is 6th Codices. Also, playing on tables with proper LOS blocking terrain is a must.
Thanks for playing, you have been found lacking. Have a nice day.
Well, I have just had an aneurysm.
The sheer hypocrisy of you telling me I am not considering the entirety of your argument put me in stitches. You have not countered or attempted to debate against any of my points directly in this post. Instead you just reiterate the same 3 weak points.
Instead of attempting to debate, you completely ignore my points on the LRBT comparison on the basis that you presume me to have committed a logical fallacy (which might I remind you is a fallacy in of itself) and feel compelled to insult my intelligence by telling me the meaning of 'relative', when I have EXPLICITLY told you that looking at those two units relatively is a pointless affair.
I never said I fielded 80 Orks at 2k. That game was at 1200, 600 each. We were on a 6x4 board and spread out as far as humanly possible, but Riptides can just remove swathes of Boys at a time and if you do spread out too far you lose an absolutely horrendous amount of ground to each casualty. Case in point, if you have 2'' gaps between 1 and 2nd rank, every time the front is wiped a third of your movement got reverted. This was not hard with no cover; and we could not afford to get in it for we would have been slowed.
I cannot actually be screwed to re-type the same post again against points you have just reiterated without consideration for any of my points.
So yes, if you're actually going to leave the room please take your arrogance with you, because I won't be missing you.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/11/16 15:04:48
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/11/16 15:04:00
Subject: Re:How do you kill a riptide?
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Rough Rider with Boomstick
Wiltshire
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Mr.Omega wrote:looking at those two units relatively is a pointless affair.
Please, enlighten me.
I'm with Zagman on this. It's a very relevant comparison.
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Note to the reader: my username is not arrogance. No, my name is taken from the most excellent of commanders: Lord Castellan Creed, of the Imperial Guar- I mean Astra Militarum - who has a special rule known only as "Tactical Genius"... Although nowhere near as awesome as before, it now allows some cool stuff for the Guar- Astra Militarum - player. FEAR ME AND MY TWO WARLORD TRAITS. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/11/16 15:10:25
Subject: Re:How do you kill a riptide?
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Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot
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The LRBT isn't competitive whereas the basis of this debate revolves around as such, it uses 5th edition pricing, is a vehicle and has qualities for a pie plate dispenser that are very rarely otherwise seen; these being AV14, practically infinite range and the heavy tank quality. Using it to make a blanket statement as a result is somewhat pointless.
Logically, we should not be looking at its firepower in a vacuum and still referring to it by its full cost.
Comparing the Riptide to it proves nothing; its like comparing an actual diamond to a fake plastic diamond. 'But look, you can still fool people into thinking its real!' doesn't make the actual diamond any less significant or change anything; especially when you consider that is not hard to determine whether a diamond is fake or not.
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2013/11/16 15:15:20
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/11/16 15:36:08
Subject: Re:How do you kill a riptide?
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Rough Rider with Boomstick
Wiltshire
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Mr.Omega wrote:
The LRBT isn't competitive whereas the basis of this debate revolves around as such, it uses 5th edition pricing, is a vehicle and has qualities for a pie plate dispenser that are very rarely otherwise seen; these being AV14, practically infinite range and the heavy tank quality. Using it to make a blanket statement as a result is somewhat pointless.
Logically, we should not be looking at its firepower in a vacuum and still referring to it by its full cost.
Comparing the Riptide to it proves nothing; its like comparing an actual diamond to a fake plastic diamond. 'But look, you can still fool people into thinking its real!' doesn't make the actual diamond any less significant or change anything; especially when you consider that is not hard to determine whether a diamond is fake or not.
Yes, Zagman KNOWS it isn't competitive, which is kind of the point.
If the LRBT has a low damage output...
And the output of a riptide is comparable (which it is)...
Then the Riptide also has a low damage output...
How is that not relevant?
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Note to the reader: my username is not arrogance. No, my name is taken from the most excellent of commanders: Lord Castellan Creed, of the Imperial Guar- I mean Astra Militarum - who has a special rule known only as "Tactical Genius"... Although nowhere near as awesome as before, it now allows some cool stuff for the Guar- Astra Militarum - player. FEAR ME AND MY TWO WARLORD TRAITS. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/11/16 16:12:34
Subject: How do you kill a riptide?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Whoa, reading this thread makes me think Riptide fielding Tau players are imbecils. Why would they field more than one of those horribad units is beyond my understanding!
For 30 points more you can throw that large blast every turn with practically no chance of a failure...
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/11/16 16:29:40
Subject: How do you kill a riptide?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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The thread's derailed at this point.
All this talk of unsupported riptides vs LRBT's. Competitive players don't actually use unsupported riptides.
The NOVA O'vesa star had a buffmander attached that supported 2 riptides. It also had 2 skyrays for multiple t/l markerlights.
The Killadaelphia winning list had 3 skyrays and 3 riptides.
The whole upsupported riptide debate just feels like tau players rationalizing the situation so they don't feel so bad about playing extremely powerful armies. Own what you play. Necron players who brought 6 flyers back in the day didn't try to tell you they weren't good. GK players back in the day didn't tell you their 3 rifle dreads were bad.
Like others have said, before the riptide every MC with a 2+ was assault oriented. This balanced out naturally as when you close for assault, you expose yourself to increasing intensity of fire. Riptides can mitigate that by never needing to close for assault and skirting the typical 24-30" kill zones of most armies.
Giving Tau players the benefit of the doubt, Riptides will be supported and potentially bubble wrapped or blocked with expendable units. The effect is a t6 2+/5++ MC that can survive the entire game. Yes, its damage output may not equal that of missile sides or certain crisis suit builds, but those units are far less likely to be causing damage from turn 1 to turn 6.
If you want/need to kill one, you'll need an effectively delivered assault unit or plenty of ap2 or rending shots.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/11/16 16:30:12
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/11/16 16:54:08
Subject: How do you kill a riptide?
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Rough Rider with Boomstick
Wiltshire
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hyv3mynd wrote:The thread's derailed at this point.
All this talk of unsupported riptides vs LRBT's. Competitive players don't actually use unsupported riptides.
The NOVA O'vesa star had a buffmander attached that supported 2 riptides. It also had 2 skyrays for multiple t/l markerlights.
The Killadaelphia winning list had 3 skyrays and 3 riptides.
The whole upsupported riptide debate just feels like tau players rationalizing the situation so they don't feel so bad about playing extremely powerful armies. Own what you play. Necron players who brought 6 flyers back in the day didn't try to tell you they weren't good. GK players back in the day didn't tell you their 3 rifle dreads were bad.
Like others have said, before the riptide every MC with a 2+ was assault oriented. This balanced out naturally as when you close for assault, you expose yourself to increasing intensity of fire. Riptides can mitigate that by never needing to close for assault and skirting the typical 24-30" kill zones of most armies.
Giving Tau players the benefit of the doubt, Riptides will be supported and potentially bubble wrapped or blocked with expendable units. The effect is a t6 2+/5++ MC that can survive the entire game. Yes, its damage output may not equal that of missile sides or certain crisis suit builds, but those units are far less likely to be causing damage from turn 1 to turn 6.
If you want/need to kill one, you'll need an effectively delivered assault unit or plenty of ap2 or rending shots.
Just going to point out, at no point was I trying to "rationalise" anything. I'm not even a tau player.
All I did was point out that people are overestimating the damage output of unsupported riptides.
That's what Zagman was showing with the LRBT argument.
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Note to the reader: my username is not arrogance. No, my name is taken from the most excellent of commanders: Lord Castellan Creed, of the Imperial Guar- I mean Astra Militarum - who has a special rule known only as "Tactical Genius"... Although nowhere near as awesome as before, it now allows some cool stuff for the Guar- Astra Militarum - player. FEAR ME AND MY TWO WARLORD TRAITS. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/11/16 17:22:13
Subject: How do you kill a riptide?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Tactical_Genius wrote: hyv3mynd wrote:The thread's derailed at this point.
All this talk of unsupported riptides vs LRBT's. Competitive players don't actually use unsupported riptides.
The NOVA O'vesa star had a buffmander attached that supported 2 riptides. It also had 2 skyrays for multiple t/l markerlights.
The Killadaelphia winning list had 3 skyrays and 3 riptides.
The whole upsupported riptide debate just feels like tau players rationalizing the situation so they don't feel so bad about playing extremely powerful armies. Own what you play. Necron players who brought 6 flyers back in the day didn't try to tell you they weren't good. GK players back in the day didn't tell you their 3 rifle dreads were bad.
Like others have said, before the riptide every MC with a 2+ was assault oriented. This balanced out naturally as when you close for assault, you expose yourself to increasing intensity of fire. Riptides can mitigate that by never needing to close for assault and skirting the typical 24-30" kill zones of most armies.
Giving Tau players the benefit of the doubt, Riptides will be supported and potentially bubble wrapped or blocked with expendable units. The effect is a t6 2+/5++ MC that can survive the entire game. Yes, its damage output may not equal that of missile sides or certain crisis suit builds, but those units are far less likely to be causing damage from turn 1 to turn 6.
If you want/need to kill one, you'll need an effectively delivered assault unit or plenty of ap2 or rending shots.
Just going to point out, at no point was I trying to "rationalise" anything. I'm not even a tau player.
All I did was point out that people are overestimating the damage output of unsupported riptides.
That's what Zagman was showing with the LRBT argument.
Which is fine. I'm just saying the odds of seeing an unsupported riptide are the same as spotting bigfoot or the loch ness monster.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/11/16 17:35:11
Subject: How do you kill a riptide?
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Fixture of Dakka
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Jamo wrote:Has anyone had luck with grav bikers against a riptide yet?
A squad of bikers with 2 grav and a comb-grav sarge does OK against them, if you have a bit of cover or first turn. 9 shots with a 30" threat range, 6 hits, 5 wounds, and 3.3 wounds on average unless it nova reactors to get the 3++ save. Last game I fought one I used a set of grav bikers and a drop pod 5 man sternguard squad with 3 combi-meltas and took down a riptide turn one. Of course it's buddy then wiped out the bikers, but them's the breaks.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/11/16 17:57:07
Subject: Re:How do you kill a riptide?
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Shas'o Commanding the Hunter Kadre
Olympia, WA
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earlofburger wrote:Tell your opponent that you concede, than follow up with a firm handshake , any game with 2 or more riptides is a game not worth any respectable person's time.
Dont be a quitter. Thats just poor form
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Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com
7th Ambassadorial Grand Tournament Registration: http://40kambassadors.com/register.php |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/11/16 20:04:39
Subject: Re:How do you kill a riptide?
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Wise Ethereal with Bodyguard
Catskills in NYS
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Tactical_Genius Heck yeah, I'm now a signature!
Although you should look at what it looks like.
Department of Redundancy Department.
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Homosexuality is the #1 cause of gay marriage.
kronk wrote:Every pizza is a personal sized pizza if you try hard enough and believe in yourself.
sebster wrote:Yes, indeed. What a terrible piece of cultural imperialism it is for me to say that a country shouldn't murder its own citizens BaronIveagh wrote:Basically they went from a carrot and stick to a smaller carrot and flanged mace. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/11/17 00:11:57
Subject: Re:How do you kill a riptide?
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Land Raider Pilot on Cruise Control
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I would at least play a few games against every player, however as I play casually, I will not get repeatedly beat upon by a power gamer using a tourney list against marines. I believe Riptides, unsupported or not can deal a huge amount of damage against Codex Marines that aren't on bikes. Just my opinion.
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Grey Templar wrote:
The Riptide can't be a giant death robot, its completely lacking a sword or massive chainsaw. All giant death robots have swords or massive chainsaws. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/11/17 05:30:01
Subject: How do you kill a riptide?
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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E1han03 wrote:How do you kill the thing! This thing is one of the toughest things in the game and would really like some advise on how to kill it thanks.
SW RP with JotWW in drop pod, rinse, repeat as needed.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/11/17 16:16:53
Subject: How do you kill a riptide?
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Locked in the Tower of Amareo
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What happens after C:SW drops and you lose JotWW?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/11/17 19:13:26
Subject: How do you kill a riptide?
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Sword-Bearing Inquisitorial Crusader
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Unless you have jaws, trying to kill a riptide is mostly a waste of time. Most people don't have the firepower to deal with 5 wounds on a 2+/5+ monstrous creature. Kill the support first. Skyrays/pathfinders are really target priority #1. As people have pointed out, riptides shoot like an overpriced LRBT without support. However, with markerlights, the riptide rips apart entire units. No cover and BS 5 changes everything. So kill the markerlights that you can first.
Other than that...yeah, there's a reason why Tau/Eldar are dominant right now. It's pretty obvious that monstrous creatures with ranged firepower are good.
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"There is no limit to the human spirit, but sometimes I wish there was."
Customers ask me what army I play in 40k. Wrong Question. The only army I've never played is orks.
The Connoisseur of Crap.
Knowing is half the battle. But it is only half. Execution...application...performance...now that is the other half.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/11/17 20:46:44
Subject: How do you kill a riptide?
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Fireknife Shas'el
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scuddman wrote:Unless you have jaws, trying to kill a riptide is mostly a waste of time. Most people don't have the firepower to deal with 5 wounds on a 2+/5+ monstrous creature. Kill the support first. Skyrays/pathfinders are really target priority #1. As people have pointed out, riptides shoot like an overpriced LRBT without support. However, with markerlights, the riptide rips apart entire units. No cover and BS 5 changes everything. So kill the markerlights that you can first.
Other than that...yeah, there's a reason why Tau/Eldar are dominant right now. It's pretty obvious that monstrous creatures with ranged firepower are good.
Lascannons can do the trick. Honestly, melee may be the best way to kill a Riptide. There are plenty of CC units that can either do enough attacks to kill it off in a turn or two or have enough AP2 (like hammernators) to wreck its face.
Eldar Vypers with Starcannons can take it out. The Eldar are almost a hard counter to Riptides. Then again, so are Lascannons.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/11/17 21:00:57
Subject: How do you kill a riptide?
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Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot
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McNinja wrote: scuddman wrote:Unless you have jaws, trying to kill a riptide is mostly a waste of time. Most people don't have the firepower to deal with 5 wounds on a 2+/5+ monstrous creature. Kill the support first. Skyrays/pathfinders are really target priority #1. As people have pointed out, riptides shoot like an overpriced LRBT without support. However, with markerlights, the riptide rips apart entire units. No cover and BS 5 changes everything. So kill the markerlights that you can first.
Other than that...yeah, there's a reason why Tau/Eldar are dominant right now. It's pretty obvious that monstrous creatures with ranged firepower are good.
Lascannons can do the trick. Honestly, melee may be the best way to kill a Riptide. There are plenty of CC units that can either do enough attacks to kill it off in a turn or two or have enough AP2 (like hammernators) to wreck its face.
Eldar Vypers with Starcannons can take it out. The Eldar are almost a hard counter to Riptides. Then again, so are Lascannons.
It takes 14 BS4 Lascannons to average killing a Riptide without FNP or the 3++ buff active.
Other stats:
TL BS3: 12 shots
TL BS4: 10 shots
BS3: 18 shots
So that's pretty much two turns spending your entire or most of your solid shot firepower reserves which you had to base your entire list around to have a decent chance to kill a single Riptide, in an ideal world where you lose no men each turn. You can't count on CC because it can move and jump, doesn't need to get close to be effective, can interceptor CC units coming in from reserves and you have to get the charge distance down.
For the Imperium the premier way of killing them is going to be plasma/grav because you can take them quite easily in high quantities.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/11/17 21:35:06
Subject: How do you kill a riptide?
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Fireknife Shas'el
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Mr.Omega wrote: McNinja wrote: scuddman wrote:Unless you have jaws, trying to kill a riptide is mostly a waste of time. Most people don't have the firepower to deal with 5 wounds on a 2+/5+ monstrous creature. Kill the support first. Skyrays/pathfinders are really target priority #1. As people have pointed out, riptides shoot like an overpriced LRBT without support. However, with markerlights, the riptide rips apart entire units. No cover and BS 5 changes everything. So kill the markerlights that you can first.
Other than that...yeah, there's a reason why Tau/Eldar are dominant right now. It's pretty obvious that monstrous creatures with ranged firepower are good.
Lascannons can do the trick. Honestly, melee may be the best way to kill a Riptide. There are plenty of CC units that can either do enough attacks to kill it off in a turn or two or have enough AP2 (like hammernators) to wreck its face.
Eldar Vypers with Starcannons can take it out. The Eldar are almost a hard counter to Riptides. Then again, so are Lascannons.
It takes 14 BS4 Lascannons to average killing a Riptide without FNP or the 3++ buff active.
Other stats:
TL BS3: 12 shots
TL BS4: 10 shots
BS3: 18 shots
So that's pretty much two turns spending your entire or most of your solid shot firepower reserves which you had to base your entire list around to have a decent chance to kill a single Riptide, in an ideal world where you lose no men each turn. You can't count on CC because it can move and jump, doesn't need to get close to be effective, can interceptor CC units coming in from reserves and you have to get the charge distance down.
For the Imperium the premier way of killing them is going to be plasma/grav because you can take them quite easily in high quantities.
True. Also, a WK with HWCs can take out a Riptide, but that's not really reliable.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/11/17 22:58:58
Subject: How do you kill a riptide?
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Khorne Chosen Marine Riding a Juggernaut
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Nurgle BikerLord with Mace.
Kharn also like Riptides, Super crunchy fish inside always makes him giddy.
Jugger Axe Lord if he had the chance to get EW or +1T with Gift of mutation is also funny to watch.
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