Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hello once again dakka,
Well remember when I couldn't decide on a setting for my game? well I was watching Criminal Minds a few days ago and a quote in there really resonated with me:

Better to write for the self and have no public then to write for the public and have no self.

so I thought long and hard about which of my game settings really appealed to me, and so I've gone back to one of my older ideas called "Mercury Skies" which to sum it up in a sentence: "WW2 in space". now I've got another qeustion: should this game be made in 15mm or the more standard 28mm?
just to clarify what I'm talking about I'd like to show you some of my proto concept art I call "the doodles":

this is what the Conscript units for the PSSU is planned to look like. they're the basic units for the PSSU faction.


here is the doodle for a unit called "the Homesteaders" for the Colombia faction. they're irregular units made up of citizen militias that bring their own weapons to the fight.


this is the Ashigaru for the Imperial shogunate faction. they're the basic units for that faction.

(please forgive my crappy art skills, I'm more a storyteller than I am a writer.)

so I will repeat my question: would you prefer this game to be in the form of a 15mm game or a 28mm game?

Until you post some information about what kind of gameplay your game will have you're just going to get answers to the question "what scale of game do you like" that ignore any specific details about your game. And, as I've said before, when you have no vision for the game and have to poll people on basic things like "what scale should I use" it casts serious doubt on your ability to take this beyond forum speculation and make a final product.

 Peregrine wrote:
Until you post some information about what kind of gameplay your game will have you're just going to get answers to the question "what scale of game do you like" that ignore any specific details about your game. And, as I've said before, when you have no vision for the game and have to poll people on basic things like "what scale should I use" it casts serious doubt on your ability to take this beyond forum speculation and make a final product.

Pretty much this, and while it's good to see you have a setting, you still have no gameplay that others can get hooked on. If you are going to throw artwork out to try and garner interest without any gameplay, it probably needs to be really eye catching artwork.

Is it skirmish or mass battle?

Indeed it entire would depend on scale.

Give us a set of rules. It doesn't have to be finished or polished, but if we have no idea how the game plays we'll have no idea which scale is better for it.

Two pages of rules. That's really all we need to get a general idea.

 Alfndrate wrote:
Is it skirmish or mass battle?

I'm not quite sure how to classify it, because it combines aspects of a TCG in that your army is made up of a deck of cards that when you play they create a miniature on the tabletop. so if you have a slow moment in a game it could look like a skirmish game, but if both players have most of their armies out then it will look more like mass battle.

That doesn't answer my question. Let's put it this way, do you imagine this more like Bolt Action, 40k, Warmachine/Hordes, or do you imagine it more like Drop zone commander, Flames of War, Epic 40k, etc...

What is the intended size and scale of the game....

How many models should be present in a standard game? How many cards?
How many models per card?
How big is the table. etc etc etc

Desubot wrote:What is the intended size and scale of the game....

How many models should be present in a standard game? How many cards?
How many models per card?
How big is the table. etc etc etc

well the standard deck is between 60 and 45 cards, with any number of those being either support cards (kind of like sorcery and instant cards in MtG) and others being unit cards.
generally there will only be one physical model per card, but if I go with 15mm an infantry unit will be made up of three figures on one base as a model.
there's no mandated size or even shape for the table, however a good size is between 4x4 and 6x6 but these can be adjusted to suit the kind of game and avalable space. the important part is that the table is gridded off into 1" squares that are used to make the game go a lot quicker.

@Alfendrate: I honestly imagine it like none of them, I imagine this as more like MtG or the Pokemon TCG than any miniature wargame.

 yeri wrote:
@Alfendrate: I honestly imagine it like none of them, I imagine this as more like MtG or the Pokemon TCG than any miniature wargame.

Kind of like Dystopian Legions?

yeri wrote:there's no mandated size or even shape for the table, however a good size is between 4x4 and 6x6 but these can be adjusted to suit the kind of game and avalable space. the important part is that the table is gridded off into 1" squares that are used to make the game go a lot quicker.

@Alfendrate: I honestly imagine it like none of them, I imaginor is as more like MtG or the Pokemon TCG than any miniature wargame.

So I don't need a normal wargaming table, need a chessex RPG mat, fine I can deal with that, but if you look at it like a magic or a pokemon instead of a 40k or a flames, then the scale of the game doesn't matter. I still think your game idea is simply trying to combine "all the things" and because of this you're getting stuck on stupid things like, "what scale should my game be?" We don't freaking know, especially if you can't tell us how you imagine the models being on the table.

Kinda though it was more like Super dungeon explores meets MTG.

Im assuming you draw the decks and deploy when played from your table edge like reserves.

I want to say limit it to 4x4 at max, and use 28mm there are plenty of available models to use for WW2 IINNN SPAAACEEEEE

Edit: keep the model count and scale small (maybe make it so 1 model represents a whole unit and move on from there) WW2 was kinda big depending on where you where. )

Alfndrate wrote:

yeri wrote:there's no mandated size or even shape for the table, however a good size is between 4x4 and 6x6 but these can be adjusted to suit the kind of game and avalable space. the important part is that the table is gridded off into 1" squares that are used to make the game go a lot quicker.

@Alfendrate: I honestly imagine it like none of them, I imaginor is as more like MtG or the Pokemon TCG than any miniature wargame.

So I don't need a normal wargaming table, need a chessex RPG mat, fine I can deal with that, but if you look at it like a magic or a pokemon instead of a 40k or a flames, then the scale of the game doesn't matter. I still think your game idea is simply trying to combine "all the things" and because of this you're getting stuck on stupid things like, "what scale should my game be?" We don't freaking know, especially if you can't tell us how you imagine the models being on the table.

well you don't need an RPG mat, I'm going to make available a map designer tool that will let you make a nice looking map and print it out ready to be glued onto foamboard or other backing material of your choice. and I ask about the scale because I worry that while a 15mm game may give me numbers that work out as far as ranges, I'm not sure that it will sell as well as a 28mm game.

Desubot wrote:Kinda though it was more like Super dungeon explores meets MTG.

Im assuming you draw the decks and deploy when played from your table edge like reserves.

I want to say limit it to 4x4 at max, and use 28mm there are plenty of available models to use for WW2 IINNN SPAAACEEEEE

Edit: keep the model count and scale small (maybe make it so 1 model represents a whole unit and move on from there) WW2 was kinda big depending on where you where. )

yea it's sort of like that, but instead of deploying from a table edge you deploy from a command center called a DCC.

Can you please post up trial rules? At this point I'm sure we wouldn't even care if there are some spelling/grammatical problems etc. We just want to see some rules that we can try out.

sure, I'll try to get them written down during the long car ride I've got planned tomorrow. I don't know when I'll get to post them, but I'll try to put a PDF up sometime tomorrow.

Sounds good, can't wait to see it.

yeri wrote:well you don't need an RPG mat, I'm going to make available a map designer tool that will let you make a nice looking map and print it out ready to be glued onto foamboard or other backing material of your choice. and I ask about the scale because I worry that while a 15mm game may give me numbers that work out as far as ranges, I'm not sure that it will sell as well as a 28mm game.

So to play your game, I need 1) a deck per person, 2) models that are determined by what's in my deck 3) the ability to print a 4 foot by 4 foot grid?

yeri wrote:sure, I'll try to get them written down during the long car ride I've got planned tomorrow. I don't know when I'll get to post them, but I'll try to put a PDF up sometime tomorrow.

I thought you had the rules decided on as per your last thread, but couldn't decide which 'skin' sounded the best?

 Alfndrate wrote:

yeri wrote:well you don't need an RPG mat, I'm going to make available a map designer tool that will let you make a nice looking map and print it out ready to be glued onto foamboard or other backing material of your choice. and I ask about the scale because I worry that while a 15mm game may give me numbers that work out as far as ranges, I'm not sure that it will sell as well as a 28mm game.

So to play your game, I need 1) a deck per person, 2) models that are determined by what's in my deck 3) the ability to print a 4 foot by 4 foot grid?

not exactly, you would print it in printer paper sized sections then glue it to something sturdier. heck you could even make modular sections out of each sheet come to think of it.

yeri wrote:sure, I'll try to get them written down during the long car ride I've got planned tomorrow. I don't know when I'll get to post them, but I'll try to put a PDF up sometime tomorrow.

I thought you had the rules decided on as per your last thread, but couldn't decide which 'skin' sounded the best?

 yeri wrote:
not exactly, you would print it in printer paper sized sections then glue it to something sturdier. heck you could even make modular sections out of each sheet come to think of it.

I'd rather just use a Chessex mat, at least then I'm not wasting ink and paper everytime I want to have a battle... The game on a grid isn't a bad idea, your implementation of it is a bad idea.

yeri wrote:sure, I'll try to get them written down during the long car ride I've got planned tomorrow. I don't know when I'll get to post them, but I'll try to put a PDF up sometime tomorrow.

I thought you had the rules decided on as per your last thread, but couldn't decide which 'skin' sounded the best?

yep I decided on the rules during a "thought experiment" I had a few months ago and they haven't changed since then, I just haven't written them down yet, they're all in my head at this point.

also it looks like my road trip got canceled so I'm sitting at my workstation right now typing out the rules. I'm just not sure I can fit the quickstart rules in two pages as they stand, so it may be a few more than two pages when I'm done.

I mean it's going to be tough to give us quick start rules when we don't even have the decks that are required to play. Again, this sounds far too complicated and it seems like you're just throwing together "all the things" because you can't sit down and make the really hard choices when it comes to game design, like what to cut. Hell I just wasted 6 months of development because a game I was designing works out better as a deck building game than a miniatures game.

would you like me to include some playtest cards in the quickstart PDF? because I've been working on those too.

 yeri wrote:
would you like me to include some playtest cards in the quickstart PDF? because I've been working on those too.

Well since cards seem necessary to the game functioning, I don't see how you could give us a ruleset that works without them.

 yeri wrote:
would you like me to include some playtest cards in the quickstart PDF? because I've been working on those too.

At least enough so like a deck that's a quarter or a third of the size of a regular deck.

ok, would anyone like any particular faction I've got six:
there's Colombia (America, Canada and Mexico all banding together), Brittania (Brittan and all its colonies), Germania (a Germany where they united based on shared struggle instead of race and took over most of continental Europe), the Imperial Shogunate (imperial Japan where the emperor declared he had the joint title of both shogun and emperor), the PSSU (basically same reds different name) and the Chinese Federation (China united under a semi-fascist government)

 yeri wrote:
ok, would anyone like any particular faction I've got six:
there's Colombia (America, Canada and Mexico all banding together), Brittania (Brittan and all its colonies), Germania (a Germany where they united based on shared struggle instead of race and took over most of continental Europe), the Imperial Shogunate (imperial Japan where the emperor declared he had the joint title of both shogun and emperor), the PSSU (basically same reds different name) and the Chinese Federation (China united under a semi-fascist government)

Pick 2 factions, probably 2 that aren't complex. Maybe 1 is your standard, "good guys that aren't too good in one area and too bad in another area" and then maybe a "lots of 'cheap' little guys" sort of faction.

You're basically trying to sell us on your product before we get it, so stop asking us about which is your best foot forward, and start making decisions about your game!

there's just one problem with that: any of those armies can be played either of those ways depending on how you build your deck. the way the stats are built is based on the number 3. so in each category of stats there will be one stat a particular faction is good at, one it's bad at, and one that's just average. that way it all somewhat balances out. and I ask these questions because I can have any of the decks ready, but I would like to know which ones people have interest in. also the starter sets are going to be available for every faction so you and your friend each buy a starter for the faction that interests you instead of having two armies when you just want one of them. it was more a question of interest than which foot to put forward.

Britain and Germany then. Peoples' interests in these rough draft decks accompanying rough draft rules shouldn't be the deciding point in which ones you send out there. Pick the two that you have the most concrete understanding of how you want them to play, and the most stuff sorted out for, and do those factions. If your response is going to be 'they are all pretty much evenly thought out, which ones do you guys want', then Britain and Germany. Why? Because I rolled a D6 twice.

 yeri wrote:
there's just one problem with that: any of those armies can be played either of those ways depending on how you build your deck. the way the stats are built is based on the number 3. so in each category of stats there will be one stat a particular faction is good at, one it's bad at, and one that's just average. that way it all somewhat balances out. and I ask these questions because I can have any of the decks ready, but I would like to know which ones people have interest in. also the starter sets are going to be available for every faction so you and your friend each buy a starter for the faction that interests you instead of having two armies when you just want one of them. it was more a question of interest than which foot to put forward.

^ This is what you're doing. You're talking about starter factions, minis, cards, all of these things before you give us something that actually puts all of this in light. I don't care what factions you include because to me they're just names. Why would I want to play Britain or Germany, or Americas? These are questions I can figure out AFTER I have gotten a demo/played a quickstart game. YOU should know your game well enough to be able to say, "These factions are pretty easy to learn, I'll include these factions in these quickstart rules."

Also Motyak's right with the "most stuff sorted out for" but this means rules, gameplay, interaction, this does not mean fluff or background.

Strong suggestion from one game designer to another (potential) game designer;

Get your rules typed out and edited, map(s) (if needed) sorted, factions sorted, pieces required to play the game sorted and designed first (the basics .. no background or fluffy bits at this point, even if you have a rich backstory thought out .. it's irrelevant to actual game play).

Playtest the game second (by yourself, a few dozen times, then bring in a friend to try it a few times and give his/her opinions).

THEN look for peoples feedback and opinions.

Don't expect people to sort it out for you. Get the basics of the game ready to play (a demo/rough game - does not have to be refined or final) first, then look for feedback. That's really the only way to go about creating a game.

You seem to be looking for opinion and feedback every step of the way and (as stated above) putting the cart before the horse, then getting bogged down in minute (and ultimately unimportant) details.

And, to be completely honest, your doodle-artwork does absolutely nothing to further your goal. I would actually say it hurts your cause more than anything

What Alfndrate said.

Just put out the rules and how to play along with 2 opposing forces.

Fluff is irrelevant at this stage.