Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Okay then... on the topic of GE vs IoM the IoM would probably win. Power Armor is far stronger than Stormtrooper armor. Clone armor is much stronger than Stormtrooper armor by a great margin but Stormtrooprer armor has better enviromental capabilities.

As for weapons a Stormtrooper E-11 blaster rifle as noted can bust holes in walls and is superior to a Lasgun Though not as good as an actual Bolter.

As for Vehicles it's kinda even AT-STs and AT-ATs are not all they have. They have a HUGE armament of vehicles compared to the IoM LARGE Amount of vehicles.

GE has better Super Weapons and (probably) better heroes.

Spess: Probably even. Star Destroyers and Super Star Destroyers vs The Imperial Fleet

Final verdict: The IoM will win do to numbers and Spess Mahrens. If the GE had Alien Stormtroopers then they would have had moar of a chance and possibly even have won. (STORMWOOKIES!)

If it was multiple factions then the IoM would most likely lose. What with Mixed species Rebels, GE Stormtroopers, and Yuuzhen Vong then it'd be pretty even. (YUUZHEN BIO-TECH!)

Well if it was multiple factions IOM would have every 40k faction since that's what you give GE.Nids eat biomatter.What's yuzzhang Von stuff made of? .The empire would lose space simply because:How big is a star destroyer which is their main ship?How big is an Imperium ESCORT ship?The empire have like six Super star destroyers If you ignore timeline.How many ships bigger then that do the Imperium have?thousands.(maybe hundreds but still.LOTS)Death stars:Lets try a Imperium fleet against it.Now since it takes night lords seconds to destroy a planet that I'm pretty sure was mainly metal I doubt a death star would last very long.

 shinros wrote:
I wonder why we are comparing these two universes? They are pretty different in my opinion.

Of course they are different. We are comparing them because we are Nerds, and this is what we do for fun.

 raiden wrote:

 shinros wrote:
I wonder why we are comparing these two universes? They are pretty different in my opinion.

this, we should compare SW to Star trek, and 40k to.. um. starshiptroopers?

When you say Star Trek are we talking just Federation, or Star Trek on the whole? Because I'm pretty sure Q would just conjure up a bowl of popcorn and sit back.

Kaesoron wrote:

this, we should compare SW to Star trek, and 40k to.. um. starshiptroopers?

Agreed, SW and Star trek are annoying morality tales meant to make us optimistic about the future. 40k and Starship Troopers are meant to be grimdark and make us say about our current world, you know maybe things aren't so bad after all.

Star Wars is not a morality tale to make us optimistic about the future.It takes place a long time ago. And (IIRC) it is basically based off another Sci-Fi story.

Kaesoron wrote:

this, we should compare SW to Star trek, and 40k to.. um. starshiptroopers?

Agreed, SW and Star trek are annoying morality tales meant to make us optimistic about the future. 40k and Starship Troopers are meant to be grimdark and make us say about our current world, you know maybe things aren't so bad after all.

Happyjew wrote:Star Wars is not a morality tale to make us optimistic about the future.It takes place a long time ago. And (IIRC) it is basically based off another Sci-Fi story.

- Star Trek is a platform for Sci-fi writing that took a heavy injection of moralism by the 1990s. TNG and DS9 alternate some of the best stories in the history of Trek with others that are basically "Dr. Quinn, medicine woman" with aliens and spaceships.

- Star Wars IS a tale about the downfall and redemption of a man, paralled with a Campbellian story about the making of a hero. Nothing about optimism or even the future here - Star Wars could have been set in medieval Japan without losing a iota of meaning.

- Starship Troopers is a coming-of-age story aimed at young readers.

- 40k is an overblown political joke

 Agent_Tremolo wrote:

Kaesoron wrote:

- Star Trek is a platform for Sci-fi writing that took a heavy injection of moralism by the 1990s. TNG and DS9 alternate some of the best stories in the history of Trek with others that are basically "Dr. Quinn, medicine woman" with aliens and spaceships.

- Star Wars IS a tale about the downfall and redemption of a man, paralled with a Campbellian story about the making of a hero. Nothing about optimism or even the future here - Star Wars could have been set in medieval Japan without losing a iota of meaning.

- Starship Troopers is a coming-of-age story aimed at young readers.

- 40k is an overblown political joke

I like this. +1

Da krimson barun wrote:
The empire would lose space simply because:How big is a star destroyer which is their main ship?How big is an Imperium ESCORT ship?

Size doesn't matter. All that matters is firepower and defense, a big ship with awful guns will lose to a small ship with better firepower and defense. For example, a single Culture warship is a few hundred meters long, but could effortlessly destroy the entire Imperial navy if it didn't get bored first.

Though that ignores the case that the Imperial's ships are both larger and probably more powerful, on average.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Agent_Tremolo wrote:

- Star Trek is a platform for Sci-fi writing that took a heavy injection of moralism by the 1990s. TNG and DS9 alternate some of the best stories in the history of Trek with others that are basically "Dr. Quinn, medicine woman" with aliens and spaceships.

- Star Wars IS a tale about the downfall and redemption of a man, paralled with a Campbellian story about the making of a hero. Nothing about optimism or even the future here - Star Wars could have been set in medieval Japan without losing a iota of meaning.

- Starship Troopers is a coming-of-age story aimed at young readers.

- 40k is an overblown political joke

40k is a setting, that many stories with different themes can and do reside in.

If a imperium ship can destroy planets I'm pretty sure it can take down a star destroyer.As a matter of fact:We have NO idea what happens to lance and turbolaser shots when they hit enemy shields.

The main difference with the two universes is one takes place in a real place which we know of: The Milky Way; and Star Wars takes place in its own Galaxy. We do not know the scale of the SW galaxy, so estimating numbers is pretty difficult.

If i'm honest the Idea that the Imperium is made up of a million worlds is pretty laughable, the spread of the Imperium would mean that the actual concentration of worlds within the Imperial "border" would be tiny.

Even if the Imperium were to inhabit only habitable earth-like worlds, we are talking 40 billion planets of this category, say the Imperium only controlled a tenth, thats a billion. If we go simply for habitable earth like planets orbiting sun-like stars, thats about 11 billion candidates, assuming 10% then a billion, As we have seen the Imperium inhabits plenty of dead and feral worlds, so this number of worlds should be even greater.

With these figures the populations we are talking about are truly staggering and in some sense make the kind of losses the Imperial guard see seem pretty inconsiquential. This is the main problem for any invasion, the logistic of destroying the Imperium are unimaginable, billions of people mean nothing, those numbers could be made up in weeks or even days.

The Star Wars galaxy even if its is a much smaller galaxy the same rules would apply. This further shows just how completely ridiculous some of the Star Wars scale is: The Grand Army of the Republic being 5 million strongish for example... 40k is far closer to the mark in this regard but is still too small in scale, despite everything.

That is explained quite succinctly in the fluff.

Its partly due to the nature of Warp Travel. Systems that are close in the physical sense might be inaccessible directly by warp. You may have to take a long way around to get to it.

Having a million worlds in a galaxy full of hostile aliens and other lesser empires isn't silly. The Imperium doesn't have defined set borders. Its more of a collection of Islands in a sea of hostility.

The Imperium doesn't own even a majority of planets in the galaxy. its just the largest political entity in the Galaxy, which can still put them at only a tiny amount of the planets.


And even with only a million planets, only a fraction of which are hive worlds, we still have insane population numbers.

Zookie wrote:
Star Wars has a much bigger library and the Star Wars universes is a lot more developed.

But more developed is not necessarily better. 40k makes good use of unreliable narration, so discontinuity and plot holes are part of the fun. No matter what you read in 40k you never really know if you are getting the “real” story.

Since Star Wars has tight creative controls over the license you can’t have nearly as much creative freedom in that universe as you can in 40K.

I prefer the W40K BL material over most of the Star Wars EU. As much as I love Star Wars, nearly everything post Return of the Jedi is a bunch of convoluted weird stories and plots that don't even feel like Star Wars. The Vong don't feel like they belong at all, and the whole story of the galactic invasion was poorly executed.

The only era I recommended is the Old Republic. Most of it is well-written and properly executed without a large amount of discontinuity.

Also, as for the Stormtroopers, they were actually winning Endor. They only lost when the ATST showed up. As for their armor, it wouldn't stop a lasgun, just as the IG flak armor wouldn't either. Plastoid works like a ballistic vest. You can actually survive a point-blank blaster shot so long as it wasn't a high powered blaster or a glancing hit, so long as a medic comes by. However, plastoid is extremely effective at deflecting all melee attacks, IIRC, a Stormtrooper recruit was hit by a thrown spear from what I think was a wiki, that sent him flying through a room and smashed into a wall. The armor wasn't even dangerously damaged and the recruit survived. However, if it hits the body glove they wear, while vacuum sealed, is easily penetrated with enough force from a combat knife or spear.

As for quality, Clone Troopers and Stormtroopers tend to be better than Imperial Guardsmen. However, there's simply an outlandish numbers difference that would take months to solve (the Empire has access to Spaarti cloning chambers. With the know-how, you can reduce the cloning time to weeks and raise an army in the billions in a month if you went industrial and built them on every planet. The problem is doing so and finding out how to prevent the clones from going insane due to the speed at which they were created.).

So-

Guardsmen Grunt < Stormtrooper < ROTE Era Clone Trooper < IG Storm Trooper.

All of their weapons would cause similar damage due to death, although I think the typical lasgun has greater range than most weapons a Stormtrooper from the Galactic Empire has access to besides snipers.

As for the ships, some EU material boosted Star Wars to stupid levels. Incredible Cross Sections gave the Acclamator (old carrier cruiser from the clone wars) a yield of 200 gigatons per shot from its main guns. The Imperial Class Star Destroyers should not only have more powerful shots, but also in greater numbers. Plus, Star Wars ships have way better FTL and FTL speed (unless you count the possibility of random time travel) than the IOM, that also doesn't run the risk of having your face clawed off by Daemons.

I've been in these discussions before. It typically boils down to, in a fight, the Galactic Empire's ships running circles around the Imperium and striking worlds with heavy firepower, then running the minute they show up. However, whenever the IOM brings its best heavy hitters to play (which they also have in greater numbers than the GE's biggest ships like the Executor and Eclipse Classes), the Empire has to immediately fold all its resources and retreat.

As for why the Rebels won- a greater portion of the galaxy hated the Galactic Empire (and main characters have Doctor Who levels of plot shields). They would be constantly bogged down in effective resistance cells, similar to how Nazi Germany got bogged down by Poland because their resistance forces were ex-military and trained well. It didn't help either that Palpatine specifically built the Empire to crumble upon his death, as to prevent assassination.

However, the Galactic Empire did survive the Civil War and still is around over a hundred years ABY. Just vastly different.

.nvm

 Wyzilla wrote:
As for their armor, it wouldn't stop a lasgun, just as the IG flak armor wouldn't either.

Except, Flak armour very clearly does stop lasgun shots. Just 1/3 of the time.

 Happyjew wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:
As for their armor, it wouldn't stop a lasgun, just as the IG flak armor wouldn't either.

Except, Flak armour very clearly does stop lasgun shots. Just 1/3 of the time.

Depends on the calcs for the lasgun in the novel. Lasgun calcs vary between light lasers to boom guns that blow off limbs/greater portions of a torso and blow apart concrete chunks. Blasters meanwhile focus on penetration an internal vaporization.

We are all trying to justify our comparisons of apples to oranges, I thought I'd put that out there.

Anyways, for context's sake, try to think of that simple flak armor as a close comparison to modern-day Kevlar. Changes perspective, knowing it's not just cardboard, eh?

 KommissarKiln wrote:
We are all trying to justify our comparisons of apples to oranges, I thought I'd put that out there.

Anyways, for context's sake, try to think of that simple flak armor as a close comparison to modern-day Kevlar. Changes perspective, knowing it's not just cardboard, eh?

No, Flak armor is a lot better than modern day kevlar. Just it does squat against the more powerful weapons above a lasgun. Doesn't help either it normally doesn't cover the majority of the body. Meanwhile, carapace armor is above and beyond flak, just as power armor is above carapace.

I suppose that can only further my point... I think (Right?)