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We all know its the thing to do. Chump the nob into killing the seargent with a grenade, or have a power weapon snipe him out before he does damage. Its crap, and anyone who plays assault armies knows it. So figuring that orks basically rampage in meelee how about this. To represent a challenger calling out an ork, the ork rampages through the meelee, killing and laughing till he gets there. When the challenge is issued (beginning of combat) the ork fights his way through the crowd. One attack agains his own orks, and D3 attacks against the enemy, to represent him flinging gits out of the way WITH whatever wargear he is using counting. These attacks would happen before regular combat. So even if he is armed with a klaw, he is guaranteed at least d3 attacks against the squad, and probably a dead boy too. Would make sense orks wise, and help lessen the chumping and harsh penalties meelee has already taken so far in 6th. People would think twice about challenging to chump, as they might lose 3 guys anyway on top of the challenger. Of course this would kind of bone chaos with their has to make challenges, but I think its the same for black Templars, and some other things in armies. Honor guard marine champion would have to also.

So you're proposing an Ork nob gets D3 free power klaw attacks (does he have to roll to hit/wound first?) at initiative, and then get his normal attacks?

Yeah, sounds like you didn't think the repercussions all the way through.

Losing one ork for the possibility of killing three MEQ and then getting your normal attack value later is so broken.

 Blacksails wrote:
So you're proposing an Ork nob gets D3 free power klaw attacks (does he have to roll to hit/wound first?) at initiative, and then get his normal attacks?

Yeah, sounds like you didn't think the repercussions all the way through.

Losing one ork for the possibility of killing three MEQ and then getting your normal attack value later is so broken.

has to hit and wound as normal. And I did think it through. Chumping is a thing, and meelee is already neutered in 6th. This would give the unit some bite. AND unless your chaos, just don't challenge. Then the nob gets his regular attacks, and youdo too. And the rule should only apply if the orks are challenged, not the other way round. One guy only, in the case of a nob squad.

I really don't see how that's as broken as the opposite we are going thru now, where we went from a nob being able to get his attacks in 5th, to being chumped/sniped before he can do jack.

if i where the ork player id always issue a challenge just to get free attacks and still fight the seargant. Whats stopping this from happening every time the ork assaults...

Its seems like if you want to prevent enemy characters from sniping nobs, there are smoother ways to implement this. Either make the nob not a character, or allow for more than one per squad of Boyz to give some redundancy. Besides the complaint of a players squad leader getting sniped out through challenges is something everyone has to deal with, it just so happens that orks are worse at this since they have such low initiative. I wouldn't be at all surprised if they get some sort of squig Wargear that helps them out in challenges in their new codex though, so maybe look at how that could be implemented. Maybe something similar to the new sisters repentia rule, where even if they are killed they still get at least one attack.

 Swastakowey wrote:
if i where the ork player id always issue a challenge just to get free attacks and still fight the seargant. Whats stopping this from happening every time the ork assaults...

I edited the entry to say it only works if challenged, not if challenging.

Allow any wounds dealt by an ork in a challenge to overflow into the squad his unit is fighting against. It's got a decent risk vs reward as orks almost always striking last and removes the "HAHA your special weapon can only kill one guy" that challenges devolve into.

Want a fluff justification, Orks don't challenge, they rampage.

Ideas aside I really want orks to get something to help them out in combat, as much as I love them they have been shelved until a new codex comes along.

Speaking of rampage, how about giving a Nob a bonus of some kind if he wins a challenge? Spurred on by the respekt of da boyz he becomes a crazed killing machine, gaining bonus attacks or something.

So we don't remove challenges but give some benefit to offset them.

I also approve of the overflow. Someone mentioned ill-thought out rules, and I gotta say the challenge rules themselves are pretty poorly planned in this regard

Or you could do 1 attack when challenged at a random model on either players side to represent the rampage, but he doesn't get that attack in the challenge, or if you do over flow depending on how many are over flow you roll one die. If there is 3 left over it's a d3 if it's 2 over it's a d2 and if it's 1 left over roll a die 4,5, or 6 it hits a enemy 1,2,or 3 no it doesn't. In case there are 4 or 5 left over from a challenge limit it to 3 max can carry over.