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I forgot a HUGE negative in the case of the Hormagaunts: LD 6. They aren't hard to shoot down, and even though they dump out a lot of attacks when they are up against Plague Marines they are in trouble. I kinda wish I had taken Poisoned in this case, but I know I would have wished for Adrenal Glands if there were something with higher armor involved. I lost on my first break test

In my second game, I switched to Genestealers. Normally I'd keep testing the 'Gaunts, but LD 6 just doesn't work in Kill Teams. I played vs Dark Angels, and the 'stealers ate them alive. I cleared the board, and lost I think 5 out of 14. The trick I used was rushing and overwhelming them with numbers, and if a 'stealer dropped there was one right behind it to charge in. Rending, I6 and WS6 really helped out.

I'm making this much more on the fluffy side of things, but I thought I'd share my list on here before I play this weekend (vs Dark Angels)

Ravenguard Chapter Tactics

5x Scout Snipers
-Veteran Sergeant (w/ Armorbane)

5x Assault Marines
-Flamer (w/ Shred)
-Flamer (w/ Fleshbane)
-Veteran Sergeant w/ Lightning Claw (Leader)

So obviously not the most competitive, but I think it will be a lot of fun to play

There's nothing wrong with that, tell us how it goes!

Some quick replies, I'm just prepping my Kill Team, probably going to face Eldar.

Dez wrote:I forgot a HUGE negative in the case of the Hormagaunts: LD 6. They aren't hard to shoot down, and even though they dump out a lot of attacks when they are up against Plague Marines they are in trouble. I kinda wish I had taken Poisoned in this case, but I know I would have wished for Adrenal Glands if there were something with higher armor involved. I lost on my first break test

In my second game, I switched to Genestealers. Normally I'd keep testing the 'Gaunts, but LD 6 just doesn't work in Kill Teams. I played vs Dark Angels, and the 'stealers ate them alive. I cleared the board, and lost I think 5 out of 14. The trick I used was rushing and overwhelming them with numbers, and if a 'stealer dropped there was one right behind it to charge in. Rending, I6 and WS6 really helped out.

Now I'm starting to see why my Tyranid playing friend insisted on using Genestealers after reading the Kill Team rules.

Good job with the Genestealers! I faced a similar list. 1st game, I think I had a similar situation as your opponent. On the 2nd and 3rd, I wised up, got the experience from the 1st game, and played very defensively. Just held the line in some buildings, basically forsaking the objective. I learned Genestealers always want to be charging, like you said, just overrun, but they don't like holding objectives. That turned around the entire situation. I'm guessing your opponent tried to play aggressively, taking the fight to you instead of waiting it out. That's probably his only mistake, and a very understandable one, but enough to be his last mistake.

rabid1903 wrote:I'm making this much more on the fluffy side of things, but I thought I'd share my list on here before I play this weekend (vs Dark Angels)

Ravenguard Chapter Tactics

5x Scout Snipers
-Veteran Sergeant (w/ Armorbane)

5x Assault Marines
-Flamer (w/ Shred)
-Flamer (w/ Fleshbane)
-Veteran Sergeant w/ Lightning Claw (Leader)

So obviously not the most competitive, but I think it will be a lot of fun to play

Sorry if this is late, very quick feedback. I agree with Dez, it's a good list, a real good list.

Is the Veteran Sergeant using a Sniper rifle pls? If so, just a reminder it might not be the best usage of Armourbane. An Assault Marine just using a regular Krak Grenade may more effective with Armourbane (basically guaranteeing a Vehicle Destroyed).

I actually think it's a really good list, though. Just pls be reminded to fight the temptation of charging the 1st thing you see, Assault Marines are best used hitting hard-to-hit, well-protected units. In KT, they really benefit from ample cover to hop & hide in.

 Insane Smile wrote:
Any idea when the imperial guard will be done bacause that has me very excited.

You could... play test them... your (cough) self

Alright, so just got back from my game. We both made fluffy style lists and had a good time.

He ran Dark Angels with (from memory):
3 Bikers
-Flamer on two of them
-Power Sword on the Sergeant
5 Scouts
-4 with Snipers
-1 with Heavy Bolter


The game went heavily in my favor mainly because I was better at using terrain with the Assault Marines. That 12" move just begs them to jump from cover to cover and pounce on a perfect target. That let me charge on my terms, and I managed to table him while only losing my leader and a flamer ASM.

Lessons learned:
-Raven Guard + fluffy list actually makes for a really good list. I didn't expect the two to go so well together. Rerolling charge ranges and HoW wounds is fantastic.
-A little late on the advice, but your point was dead on. Armorbane wasn't used at all this game, but the more I saw it the more I realized that it was a waste on a Sniper Rifle. I would like to keep it fluffy and give him a good specialist rule, so I'm strongly considering changing it to Ignores Cover.

For IG, vets with Harker, 3 snipers and autocannon team?

That leaves a bit left over for a sentinel w/AC and HK.

Been so long since I had a chance to play 40k, I forgot how expensive the units for IG are.

1st, thanks for the sharing on the Ravenguard team, great observations. Way to fight on your own terms, very smart.

 Civik wrote:
For IG, vets with Harker, 3 snipers and autocannon team?

That leaves a bit left over for a sentinel w/AC and HK.

Been so long since I had a chance to play 40k, I forgot how expensive the units for IG are.

IG has been not great for us. It's sort of like the Special/Heavy Weapons or Vehicles were the only things that count.

Everything else are just corpses-to-be. Special characters like Harker are cool, but die fast and are too costly.

Sentinels are cool, with just their multi-laser, when made a Specialist with a USR, you can save points on that.

May I recommend maybe a Chimera instead of Harker? And play defensively, IG are sadly not great for KT.

(I'll try to get our notes on the IG up ASAP, I have to shorten everything to fit).

What about this for IG:


Ratling Squad (30pts)
3x Ratling -Shred

Veteran Squad (120pts)
4x Lasgun, Mortar, 3x Plasma Gun -Fleshbane (Mortar team)
Veteran Sergeant -Leader
Shotgun, CCW

Scout Sentinel (50pts)
Missile Launcher, Smoke Launcher -Shrouded

Thanks to Civik and Mr. Omega for asking our opinions. It's just me right now, most of my circle of friends are traveling for the holidays.

(And of course, as usual I invite everyone to participate. I'm consolidating not just our local group's playtesting, but reports everywhere.)

You both made smart lists, it's just KT is a little against IG. In the case of Harker, it's just all the IG Special Characters are too costly.

Sentinels are good. Ratlings are good. Special Weapons are good. It's basically Lasguns and even Krak Grenades haven't paid dividends.

So what I see as working is how you're spread your points so you have many threats. I can't just send an Assault Marine at your Ratlings, I have to worry about your Plasma Guns, your Mortar, your Sentinel. As long you spread your forces as well as you spread your points, so that I have no clear idea of what I should strike and waste my turns/resources/men going all over the place, then your opponent has the same problem.

If I seem harsh on IG, it's only because I think their Codex is harsh on them. Many of their units are more expensive than even Marines now.

---

Tonight (my timezone) I just really reworked the article to have almost a full IG unit review. I want to sleep on it, take another look in the morning, then post it. It's our best, most genuinely felt view on IG in Kill Team, even if it proves unpopular.

I know this is a gamble, but what about Marbo? "Manliest Man in the Imperium of Man" jokes aside, do you think he's got a viable place in a Kill Team game or just another points sink? I mean, one well placed demo charge could wreak so much havoc

He'd need to get in range first, which can be quite a chore seeing as he can't pop up anywhere unlike regular games.

Oh shoot, I didn't know he'd lose the ability to drop in from anywhere in a KT game. Sorry, just got the rules and am excited to play my first game soon, but def missed that crucial point. Such a shame because Marbo would have been boss in this scenario.

I just want to clarify, his entry says that he always starts in reserve even in missions that do not use the rule - but will that supersede the rule set of KillTeam?

Yeah, the rules sadly specifically say so. :(

Which is why I was looking at Harker, since he gives his entire squad scout, stealth, and move through cover. You can give Harker Shrouded(as a specialist) and keep him away from anyone with ignores cover.

Sadly, it appears you're better off with weight of numbers fielding a basic platoon.

In Kill Team Harker doesn’t give out his unit bonuses (aka Move through cover) he’s the only one to get them. There is a reason why the higher the point value the game is the better IG armies are since they can diversify better than any other army in my opinion. In these low point games guard really don’t have any take on all comers build. I have pages of list that each kill be very affective in one way or another but also have glaring weaknesses.

The only character upgrade I ever purchase in KT is a commissar just so I have a LD 9 on the field and allow me re-rolls if needed.

New Kill Teams rules are up via the Black Library and App Store. Here are a few changes from the last rule set:

Leader models roll on a chart like Warlords
Individual models make break tests
Models within 6" of the leader who passes break auto pass
6 Missions
3 wound models allowed
No 2+ saves
Brotherhood of Psykers is out

Still reading, I'm sure I'll find more!

MAJOR NEWS AS PER THIS UPDATE


Kill Team was a free skirmish ruleset offered by Games Workshop, but as of this writing today, it is now a paid online supplement at:

https://itunes.apple.com/us/book/warhammer-40-000-kill-team/id775959071?mt=11

Below, for now, we have the previous (free) version, as well as our Tactica based on that ruleset. We're reviewing the new rules.


---


Hi guys, while I was working on the update with the Imperial Guard, I found a paid supplement for Kill Team was released today.

(The free rules that the Article was so far based on had been removed for a week or 2, and I guess this was why.)

I've already looked over the rules. Now, this is just me, I haven't talked to the Kill Team Kommittee of friends, but IMHO:

Infiltrators - previously, you can't use the Infiltrate rule, but now you can. Still no Deep Strike nor Flyers

Multi-shot Weapons - previously, I in particular favoured them as they can split fire, but they can no longer do so

Non-Transport Vehicles - can no longer be Specialists. The insane Landspeeder Specialist is no longer a threat

Forgeworld - the KT rules used to specify no FW stuff. Nothing's mentioned here. Potentially huge loop holes

An Allies Loophole - it says your KT has to be "from a single Codex". But different Chapters are in the SM same codex

---

Some of these changes make sense, like Infiltrators are now really, really useful for these Delta style games. That's good!

But here are my predictions, on the day of this new KT ruleset release, on what's going to be the Killer Kill Teams:

Sniper Team - many Snipers have Infiltrate or Scout. Great in the old KT rules, even better now. They'll be very common

Some FW Imperial Armour Book Exploit - I'm not familiar with many FW units yet, but I can see some exploit happening

Mixed Space Marines - because of the "from a single Codex" rule, I bet there will be some IH + WS or something

Sniper kroot just got ridiculous. Just taking 10 costs 70 points but infiltrating snipers are brutal in such small games. Morale is an issue but really, 24" snipers on infiltrating models where the standard army is about 10 men? Nasty.

As for FW, I can't think of anything hugely game breaking other than maybe hornets and sabres. Acanthrites would be annoying too but with these new missions (especially the escape from a table edge one), they're really rewarding horde armies over the smaller, elite armies tha the old mission favoured.

I believe you may be overthinking the 'from a single codex'. There is still a force org and no allies.

I would also argue the Harker not conferring Catachan Devils on his squad since he confers it at time of purchase for the squad as an upgrade and they don't lose Catachan Devils on his death. It isn't like a ministorum priest or other character joining the squad and then being separated.

I asked about the Harker thing at YMDC and thankfully, I got away with my sanity and dignity intact. Also, according to the wording, only Harker benefits from the rules.

Sorry for necroing anything but since this is an article I wanted to ask has anyone tried using a squad of stormtroopers in killteam? Their lasguns ignore 3+ armor and each model infiltrates in independently. Maybe give one a plasma gun (preferred enemy) melta gun make it mastercrafted, and give a trooper poison attacks? I've been tempted to do this and I know typically stormtroopers are expensive in regular 40k but kill team seems like they were made for this.

Thanks to the new rules I really think Storm Troopers got a major boost. Before the range was killing them but now that they can all infiltrate again it puts you right in range on turn one and, if there is some LOS blocking terrain, possibly in double tap range. Would recommend giving one the sniper rule so you can then be wounding marines on a 4+. Had great results with a 5-man squad with a plasma gun with a veteran squad backing them up. Also didn’t hurt to have a lascannon with the ignore cover rule obliterating something every turn.

 Panzer1944 wrote:
Thanks to the new rules I really think Storm Troopers got a major boost. Before the range was killing them but now that they can all infiltrate again it puts you right in range on turn one and, if there is some LOS blocking terrain, possibly in double tap range. Would recommend giving one the sniper rule so you can then be wounding marines on a 4+. Had great results with a 5-man squad with a plasma gun with a veteran squad backing them up. Also didn’t hurt to have a lascannon with the ignore cover rule obliterating something every turn.

So you had 15 bodies then yea? what worries me is the low leadership though. I was wanting to do 10 stormtroopers, but I think maybe more bodies might be in the guards favor for killteam. Though their ap3 lasguns pretty much chew up infantry. I might just start 10 ST and see how it goes.

Kommissar Waaaghrick, I can't help but notice you didn't talk about vehicles outside of the Chimera in the Dakka Article.

I feel like you really need to mention that AV10 and especially AV11 stuff gains a lot of traction and viability in Kill Team it wouldn't have in regular games.

1) Chances are most armies only have one weapon that can really deal with it. Space Marines and their Chaos equivalents are one of the only 6E armies that can reliably go after vehicles with every last guy because Krak Grenades. The vast majority of other armies don't have better than S4 weapons or punchings without spending extra points to get it.

2) For Space Marines, Rhinos need to be discussed. Rhinos are amazing in Kill Team, better than Razorbacks despite being a lot cheaper. Biggest reason 2 firing hatches. Each model is it's own unit therefore the two guys firing out of them can do so at different units. Plus the Rhino itself still has a Storm Bolter which actually matters in Kill Team. It's the best way to protect your heavy weapons guy if you choose to bring one. I know a guy who just gives his HW guy "Stealth" and parks him in the back, and I snipe him every game with my own HW guy that I give Ignores Cover.

Also, if your models break, the dudes inside are Fearless. Keeps at least the two guys you leave inside from fleeing.

3) I've had a ton of success bringing a Heavy Flamer Land Speeder to games. AV10 is just hard to hurt, and the mobility with the heavy flamer is one of the best ways to punish people with high model count. I highly recommend giving it a shot alongside a Tactical Squad.

edit again: Oh man I didn't realize how old this was as a thread necro. We really should go update the Kill Team Tactica thing to include as many armies as possible.

So I played a game with Tau today. I find it's either win big or get stomped, but it worked out pretty well today.

List:
Crisis Team, three Shas'ui
Two Burst Cannons
Shred
Two Burst Cannons
Preferred Enemy
Two Plasma Rifles
Ignores Cover

Fire Warrior Squad
Six Fire warriors

The Fire warriors didn't do much (anything), but the Crisis Team carried hard. I was against Marines, who had a Tac squad, Sergeant with Combi Melta, Specialist with Meltagun and Relentless Missile Launcher.

Playing Tau in Kill Team I think requires you to utilise two main strategies: JSJ, mainly LOS hopping, and fire lanes. The Fire Warriors worked more as a deterrent than actual damage, only firing twice in the whole match. The Crisis Team had to close to enemy threats, pick them off, then Jump out of sight - usually over terrain. The first to go was the missile launcher. The Fire Warriors bubble wrapped the objective and babysat while the Crisis team practised target priority.

So, Tau in a nutshell: JSJ (never forget this, it will save your Crisis suits. You're not that tough), Fire lanes and board control (Or, the reason you bring Fire Warriors, regardless of how they can't seem to roll higher than a 2 to hit), and target priority.

I'm considering Pathfinders, but the Crisis team killed pretty much whatever it shot at without needing markerlights, usually putting ~4 wounds on target, or 1-2 AP2 Ignores Cover wounds.

Why Shred on a guy with two burst cannons? The Shred USR in Kill Team is melee only.

 SRSFACE wrote:
Why Shred on a guy with two burst cannons? The Shred USR in Kill Team is melee only.

Oh, now he tells me
Basically, because I derped.

Actually, better question, why not fleshbane?

Exact same reasons. It's also melee only.

Your guy with Ignores Cover is the weapons specialist, the guy with preferred enemy is the guerilla specialist.

You could try Poisoned (4+), as that only applies to shooting. I think Burst Cannons are at least S4, so you'd reroll your wounds against any target with = or < your weapon strength. It'd basically function just like the way you thought running him with Shred would, and it's the same specialist (Dirty Fighter).

You could also try Indomitable Specialist and give him Eternal Warrior so he doesn't get insta-gibbed by Melta or Rocket Launchers, or try Feel No Pain so he's just that much more of a monster to kill.

I've figured out why I derped, and it's because we were running off the older KT rules (Where shred applied to both ranged and close combat).

As a side note, I take it the KT rules are different enough to be worth buying then?