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The Great State of Texas

mmm...there's green in that there green!

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/supporters-declare-victory-colorado-measure-tax-recreational-pot-044430275.html

..Colorado voters approve 25 percent taxes on recreational marijuana
By Keith Coffman | Reuters – 5 hours ago....Email0

DENVER (Reuters) - A Colorado measure to impose sales and excise taxes of 25 percent on newly legalized recreational marijuana and earmark the first $40 million in revenue for public schools was approved by voters on Tuesday, Governor John Hickenlooper said.

The move showed a willingness on the part of Colorado voters to tax marijuana for the public benefit even as they roundly defeated a broader tax measure that would have increased state income taxes to raise $1 billion for schools.

Colorado and Washington last year became the first U.S. states to legalize marijuana for recreational purposes. But Colorado, whose constitution requires a statewide vote to approve tax increases, left it to voters to decide how to tax the newly legal drug.

"We are grateful voters approved funding that will allow for a strong regulatory environment, just like liquor is regulated," Hickenlooper said as returns showed 65 percent of voters in favor of the tax and 35 percent against with about a quarter of votes counted.

"We will do everything in our power to make sure kids don't smoke pot and that we don't have people driving who are high. This ballot measure gives Colorado the ability to regulate marijuana properly," the Democratic governor said in a statement.

Under the marijuana tax proposal, a combined 15 percent excise and 10 percent sales tax would be imposed on recreational pot sales, with the first $40 million raised to fund school construction projects.

In Denver, a local ballot measure that would tack an additional 3.5 percent city sales tax on pot shops also appeared headed for passage, by a margin of 69 to 31 percent with roughly a third of votes counted.

Even as many proponents of legalizing recreational marijuana supported taxing the drug, some within the pot legalization community opposed the tax.

Rachel Gillette, president of Colorado's chapter of the National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws, said before the vote that her organization was not against taxing cannabis sales, but that the state was going too far.

"This is not keeping with the promise to tax marijuana like alcohol," Gillette said. "It's more like regulating the sale of plutonium than alcohol. It looks like a law-enforcement money grab."

BROADER TAS MEASURE FAILS

Backers of a statewide proposal that would have increased the state income tax to raise nearly $1 billion annually for public schools conceded defeat on Tuesday, as returns showed it losing 66 percent to 34 percent with about 25 percent of votes counted.

"Tonight, we know that goal isn't happening as soon as we'd like. But it will happen," said state Senator Mike Johnston, a Democrat from Denver.

The school funding constitutional amendment would have scrapped the state's current 4.63 percent flat income tax rate tied to federal adjusted gross income tax, and replaced it with a two-tiered income tax increase.

Under the proposal, taxpayers who made less than $75,000 would have paid a 5 percent rate and taxpayers who made over $75,000 would have faced a 5.9 percent rate.

Proponents of the measure say Colorado has for years underfunded public education, and sought voter approval to put school funding on a surer financial footing.

Opponents argued that Colorado requires local school districts to allocate tax revenues, so there is no guarantee on how the money will be spent at the local level, which could be used on teacher salaries or to backfill the state's underfunded public employees retirement fund.

Backers of the tax raised more than $10 million for their campaign, bombarding television and radio airwaves with ads, touting the need for money to fund full-day kindergarten, and to restore music, art and physical education programs.

Among the donors to the pro-tax measure were Microsoft founder Bill Gates and his wife Melinda and New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg, who, combined, donated $2 million to the campaign.

(Writing by Dan Whitcomb; Editing by Cynthia Johnston and Mohammad Zargham)

...

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Taxed and regulated!

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Pretty soon they be screaming how they are being unfairly targeted for revenues.

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Good for them. This is what those in favour of legalisation wanted, taxes and regulation.

 
   
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Swindon, Wiltshire, UK

Weird that it wasn't taxed as soon as it was legalised.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/11/06 13:31:13


 
   
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Burtucky, Michigan

Ive been saying we should do that for years. Its a fracking cash cow that is less harmful than cigarettes and alcohol. I mean cmon!
   
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Weed is a goldmine, and I wish more places would do the same thing. People are likely gonna keep buying from dealers, but it's still a step in the right direction.

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 fishy bob wrote:
People are likely gonna keep buying from dealers, but it's still a step in the right direction.

Well one of the cornerstone arguments for legalisation was that pot dealers would be a thing of the past once legal channels were established a la bootleggers during Prohibition (although moonshine is still pretty popular in some areas). We'll just have to see how big an impact taxes have on this.

 
   
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 Dreadclaw69 wrote:
 fishy bob wrote:
People are likely gonna keep buying from dealers, but it's still a step in the right direction.

Well one of the cornerstone arguments for legalisation was that pot dealers would be a thing of the past once legal channels were established a la bootleggers during Prohibition (although moonshine is still pretty popular in some areas). We'll just have to see how big an impact taxes have on this.

That's what I'm talking about. If pot dealers will be able to offer it cheaper (I have no idea how much legal pot is gonna cost) then I don't see them going anywhere.

Shotgun wrote:
I don't think I will ever understand the mentality of people that feel the need to record and post their butthurt on the interwebs.
 
   
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Somewhere in south-central England.

Pot growers and dealers will make a rational analysis of the cost/benefit ratio of going legit and paying their taxes.

There is lots of untaxed tobacco sold in the UK thanks to the high duty on it, as well as legitimate sales.

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 Kilkrazy wrote:
Pot growers and dealers will make a rational analysis of the cost/benefit ratio of going legit and paying their taxes.

There is lots of untaxed tobacco sold in the UK thanks to the high duty on it, as well as legitimate sales.

Yup, and some of the biggest players in untaxed tobacco are the various terror groups in Northern Ireland. As I've said before I'm in favour of legalisation (I'm not a user) but I am interested in how the pro-legalisation arguments will stack up against reality.

 
   
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The Great State of Texas

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Pot growers and dealers will make a rational analysis of the cost/benefit ratio of going legit and paying their taxes.

There is lots of untaxed tobacco sold in the UK thanks to the high duty on it, as well as legitimate sales.


Shoot some illegal pot dealers on TV and that will provide additional clarity on the cost/benefit ratio.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Dreadclaw69 wrote:
 Kilkrazy wrote:
Pot growers and dealers will make a rational analysis of the cost/benefit ratio of going legit and paying their taxes.

There is lots of untaxed tobacco sold in the UK thanks to the high duty on it, as well as legitimate sales.

Yup, and some of the biggest players in untaxed tobacco are the various terror groups in Northern Ireland. As I've said before I'm in favour of legalisation (I'm not a user) but I am interested in how the pro-legalisation arguments will stack up against reality.


Really? Where do they get the tobacco?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/11/06 13:53:51


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 Frazzled wrote:
Really? Where do they get the tobacco?

Spain, Portugal Eastern Europe, Russia. Basically anywhere that seems them cheaper and where they can be bought in bulk and smuggled in. If I recall that and laundered fuel (selling farm diesel as regular diesel by removing the ink) are two of their bigger money makers

 
   
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Leerstetten, Germany

The same thing happens in the US as well, at least in my neck of the woods.

There are lots of illegal tobacco sales using cheaper tax stamps via the native tribes. People weigh the risk of getting caught and then decide if the money saved is worth it.

I am curious to see how the initial tax numbers are going to look once collections begin, and if having actual tax revenue information would push other states towards legalization.
   
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The Void

 Corpsesarefun wrote:
Weird that it wasn't taxed as soon as it was legalised.


It wasn't fully "legalized" the law voting for the legalization of MJ was passed last year, but the actual laws handling it's regulation still had to be drafted and created. This was actually the RIGHT choice to make as it reduces the actual legalization question to a Yes/No question and prevents any hang ups in fights over what MJ should be taxed as, how dispensaries should be regulated, how farms should be regulated, how all this stuff should be enforced! Better to handle ALL of that after the big question gets answered yes?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/11/06 14:11:18


I beg of you sarge let me lead the charge when the battle lines are drawn
Lemme at least leave a good hoof beat they'll remember loud and long


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 d-usa wrote:
I am curious to see how the initial tax numbers are going to look once collections begin, and if having actual tax revenue information would push other states towards legalization.

Given California's more liberal outlook and budget problems I wouldn't be surprised if they are watching this very carefully. It may also help border States if the cartels' pot market north of the border starts shrinking.

 
   
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 Dreadclaw69 wrote:
 fishy bob wrote:
People are likely gonna keep buying from dealers, but it's still a step in the right direction.

Well one of the cornerstone arguments for legalisation was that pot dealers would be a thing of the past once legal channels were established a la bootleggers during Prohibition (although moonshine is still pretty popular in some areas). We'll just have to see how big an impact taxes have on this.


It isn't just moonshine. Regular bottled booze without the tax stamp, and cigarettes without theirs are actually pretty big sellers. If you have a high enough tax, the black market will flourish.

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But the overall effect will still hammer illegal dealers. It may take a decade but your average pot smoker now might (i stress might) know where to find pot from someone other than their "local" guy. And they might, when the tax is high enough, go to their local guy to help them find a cheaper way of getting their stash. But 10 years from now when the next batch of kids that didn't grow up having to find dealers comes of age they won't turn anywhere but their local walmart (or equivelant) that sells weed.

It also depends on where you live in the US. Tobacco and Booze without a tax stamp in say Virginia is a heck of a lot more common than New York or California.

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 Hulksmash wrote:
But the overall effect will still hammer illegal dealers. It may take a decade but your average pot smoker now might (i stress might) know where to find pot from someone other than their "local" guy. And they might, when the tax is high enough, go to their local guy to help them find a cheaper way of getting their stash. But 10 years from now when the next batch of kids that didn't grow up having to find dealers comes of age they won't turn anywhere but their local walmart (or equivelant) that sells weed.

It also depends on where you live in the US. Tobacco and Booze without a tax stamp in say Virginia is a heck of a lot more common than New York or California.


If there is still a huge market for untaxed cigarettes (and there is, there are estimates that half the cigarettes sold in NYC are bootlegged), which even taxed are a fraction of the cost of pot, how can you not expect the market for untaxed pot to flourish?


Every time a terrorist dies a Paratrooper gets his wings. 
   
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Swindon, Wiltshire, UK

Despite the sizable market for untaxed booze and tobacco, how large really is it in relation to the taxed market?

You have to remember that we're going from an entirely untaxed system to a taxed system so, even if there is a 10% untaxed market, it's better than the 100% we had before.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/11/06 15:10:48


 
   
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Home Base: Prosper, TX (Dallas)

There are a ton of factors that come into play.

-Cost of legalized pot in relation to what it costs right now.
-Amount needed to be imbibed and frequency
-Differing growing conditions
-Mentalities of users
-Location and availability (i.e. untaxed items in a non-grow/brew environment are harder to come by outside of major cities)

I'm not saying their won't be a black market. Just that the current illegal providers will take a massive punch in the gut over the next decade. Which, as a former californian, is a good thing. And that doesn't touch on the money saved by not having to pay for the inmate housing on pot offenders.

My thought, Big Business will drive the actual cost down from it's current cost. Taxes will drag it back up. And we'll basically be paying the same amount in the future as now. But it's the first time something like this in our lifetime has been legalized, so it's all up in the air anyway.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/11/06 15:13:00


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Summary of Article: "Man I liked marajuana when it was cool and anti-establishment. Now I'm just another one of you common douchebags."


   
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Pleasant Valley, Iowa

It feels kinda weird to un-ironically say "This is great news!" but here we are.

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I can't stand weed, but this is probably a step in the right direction. Interested to see how this plays out since I'm sure there are other states thinking about legalizing weed as well.

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 LordofHats wrote:




Summary of Article: "Man I liked marajuana when it was cool and anti-establishment. Now I'm just another one of you common douchebags."


Yeah, there was a certain amount of condescending, elitist, hipster attitude dripping from that article, which could pretty much be summed up with "mainstream = bad"

 
   
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I have friends and family in Colorado (Denver / Boulder).

This will be a huuuuge cash tax revenue for the state.

It will never go away.

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Most of that 25% tax isnt going to help schools, roads or other stuff. IT is going to go right back into making sure the Marijuana is regulated properly. The people to inspect plants, whatever agency (ATFC?) is needed to enforce it is not being sold illegally.
And its going to force small growers to abandon their operations

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 hotsauceman1 wrote:
And its going to force small growers to abandon their operations


Not quite.

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