Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Ironfront Alex brings his nasty Taudar list out for some practice for the Guardian Cup, in Portland Oregon, against Reecius' experimental Rhino Rush Raven guard and Space Wolf list in this Warhammer 40K video battle report!

another great report. I like your list Reecius. I use WS with khan or RW sometimes and that scout move is a beast! It terrifies folk and puts them on the back foot even during deployment. The army lists scroll too quickly to read! Could you post your list so I can have a deek?

Yeah, I tried it with Kahn first but realized you could get owned by enemy infiltrators. And, Khan isn't that good. I like Shrike more and that Assault Squad is pretty dang good, actually.

For the army lists you can hit pause if they go too fast, if we scroll them slowly we find it adds like a minute to the videos and we're fighting to shorten them. It's tough to convey all the info we want to get out in under 20 minutes.

Great list and great game. That was a great counter deployment by Alex. It really broke up your army and gave him the time and LoS needed to kill your TFC. Then that seizing the first turn combined with it really made the battle an up hill experience. Without that TFC you were forced to deal with the Ld and pulse buffing that ethereal provides...which is huge.

Even his putting the riptides in reserves turned out to be a really good move as it looks like you would have almost assuredly jaws them turn 1. Those forward deploying jetpack with jaws is crazy as you can get almost any angle you need with that jaws line.

I really am liking your list. I will have to steal it when I get my hands on enough models to pull it off. Is there any specific reason you run the GH in a rhino rather than podding them down turn 1 with perhaps a second priest? (you could probably cut the melta bombs and power axe and have the points for another priest)

Have you managed a game against anything with a helldrake yet? I am curious how the list will do against a 2 helldrake list.

 Reecius wrote:
For the army lists you can hit pause if they go too fast, if we scroll them slowly we find it adds like a minute to the videos and we're fighting to shorten them. It's tough to convey all the info we want to get out in under 20 minutes.

Perhaps you could instead of scrolling them, just put them up for a couple of seconds (same time you now use to scroll). Static text would make it easier to read (scrolling text is almost impossible to read, especially at that speed) and makes it easier to pause and have a nice look at it for those that want to.

On the report, nice bloodbath. I am always surprised just how tough a marine list with lots of bodies is.
I like the scouting/infiltrate, unfortunately in the area I play it doesn't work as:
1. We don't have a clear tournament ruling on how independent character infiltrate interacts with deployment together with a non-infiltrating unit. Which means you rely on a judges call during a tournament or a D6. Both aren't really good options to design your list around
2. Most missions in tournaments are based on the book missions (single) which means first blood is often very important as there aren't that many VP's to be had and often include a Purge the Alien mission as well.

Still I like that your trying out Space Marine armies. I hope you inspire people to start playing them again. Situation here is currently pretty grim. Last big tournament (66 players, well it's big for us ) there were only 5 Space Marine players with the majority of the armies being played being Tau ( 25%).

I think I'll call this build the MTO marines. Haha, oh, the irony of the build.

It'll be interesting to see them against the likes of daemons or another ultra-aggressive army.

@ansacs

It is really fun to play! I am enjoy it a lot.

No pod because Tau eat a single pod unit for breakfast. All the Broadisdes had interceptor. The would have gotten nuked the turn they came down.

Losing the TFC was BRUTAL! Ah, that would have helped so much to smoke his infantry, Alex was smart to take it out early. He is an experienced tournament player though, so he knows what he's doing. His Target Priority was spot on.

And yeah, reserving the Riptides meant they did less offensively but they were 100% certain going to contest an objective each. I had nothing in the backfield to deal with them.

No Heldrakes yet, that will be a tough match. Rhinos help a lot and that is why I take the Stalker (blows in general) so hopefully it pays off or I have to make room for a Stormtalon.

@Dutchsage

We actually have a ruling on IC's infiltrating in the USA for a lot of the big events, we ruled that they can infiltrate a unit. It is clearly the RAI and Adepticon, FoB, WargamesCon, Da Boyz, BAO, LVO, etc. all play it that way.

And, most tournaments in the States also use layered missions to reduce how big of a deal First Blood is and it makes the game a lot more fun.

But, your points are good, it's just that here those variables are largely mitigated by format. And as you pointed out, it helps to diversify the field! Lots of Marines are tough and despite taking tons of casualties, I still had 10 scoring units left!

@Jy2

Haha, yes, it does function on that principle! Works well, I played some nasty lists with it and especially if I go first, it is so hard hitting! I like playing lists like this a lot.

I really like the Raven Guard list and would love to see it again in action. I think you're on to something,

 Dozer Blades wrote:
I really like the Raven Guard list and would love to see it again in action. I think you're on to something,

I concur, I really like the look of that list as I was at one point interested in doing a Black Dragons/Raven Guard army. Would really like to see some more reports using this list, maybe take a second Thunderfire Cannon however or even a Stormraven over the stalker.

Love that list and even love it more with how aggressive you played it. If he didn’t seize from you I can only imagine just how deep your guys would have gotten into his line with a round or two of thunderfire support. Very smart deployment on his side to try to counter the bum rush you had going. Wish it could have played out.

Thanks, guys! Yeah, it's a fun list. I have tried it with WS, too and Khan, it works very well.

If I go first and they deploy poorly, it's game over turn 2 in some cases. It's savage.

I will definitely play it some more!

Interesting! There is a player in our area that does 14 Rhinos with Raven Guard + DA at 1850.

Lucarikx

Thank you for posting this report reecius

Glad you liked it, guys, I did, too.

I plan also to use RG at the our next tournament.

I was wondering why do you use only Rhino.
For example, why not replace the rhinos of the Tactical Squads without Heavy Weapon, removing 4 bodies and add a Razorback with assault cannon?

Good report. Making me reconsider all my poor Rhino's that just don't get used at the moment. Is there a way to double up on the Thunderfire's without losing its 'Marines down your throat turn two?'

Daemons might be a pain though!

@Harry mason

I want as many bodies on the table as possible, that is why i pass on the Razorbacks. The strength of the list is massed Marines, the Rhinos are simply there as a tool, and a very useful tool, too.

Rinkydink

Yeah, I am 100% back to using Rhinos. They are incredibly useful tools. You can sneak another T-Fire in there but it would be tough. 1 is usually enough but Alex did what I wasn't expecting and forced the far flank and then he seized so that was quite an unlucky turn of events. Had it gone the way I thought, the T-Fire would have been safely shooting him all game.

I completely understand the ruling on allowing characters to infiltrate units. But why does everyone simply choose to ignore the last paragraph under infiltration that says an IC without infiltration cannot join units with infiltration during deployment.

Although I love your list, I don't think you can put a wolf priest in your Shrike lead unit and infiltrate him.

@Coyote81

Yeah, that is certainly an interesting rules issue. The unit can't infiltrate, but the IC confers it onto the unit. The non infiltrating IC joins the unit during deployment and then becomes a part of the unit for all rules purposes.

So what came first, the chicken or the egg? haha, do you form the unit and then Shrike gives them all infiltrate (and his rule actually says he confers it onto jump packs, IRRC) and then everyone benefits? Or do you read it as infiltrate first, join second in which case the other IC would be excluded.

I read it as you form the unit and then infiltrate as that seems to be the correct order of operations, but it certainly isn't clear.

However, joining say, Calgar to Scouts, would certainly preclude him from infiltrating.

I see it as they all join together at the same time. Shrike/Priest/ASMs. Since Shrike has Infiltrate, the Priest cannot join him. Thus it's illegal. No chicken before the egg concept here.

I think this is done intentionally. Otherwise it could lead to some really abusive setups.

I see your argument for sure. However, I don't think it is that simple, Order of operations is important. The unit is not a unit of infiltrators. Shrike is giving all of them infiltrate.

However, this is a discussion for YMTC. Probably best to discuss with your TO before you go to an event to be sure you don't build your list incorrectly.

Shrike him,self is a unit of infiltrators. Every IC is a unit himself. So as soon as you say I'm putting Shrike and the Priest in the same unit (be it just two ICs, or in a ASM squad) you just violated the rule where ICs can't join infiltrators.

I see where your going with it, since Shrike's ability would give the priest infiltrator, but that part can never happen since they are not allowed to join each other during deployment.

I don't believe there is ever an order of operation when it comes to choosing what unit joins another during deployment. It's all happening at the same time.

Fair enough. Like I said, perhaps a conversation for YMTC, I prefer not to get into circular rules debates. If you play it that way, totally cool, I see the logic. I will be sure to clear it with any TO before i go to an event to make sure I am not disappointed =)

What is stopping the TFC from using the Scout move to redeploy as well?

The rules for raven guard CT specifies that units with bulky models in them do not benefit.

 ansacs wrote:
The rules for raven guard CT specifies that units with bulky models in them do not benefit.

Agreed. But artificer armor is not bulky, nor is the servo harness. The TFC itself is not bulky. Am I missing something else ?

I don't have my book, but Artillery models do not have the Bulky or Very Bulky rule? That seems strange if so. However, if they do not, then you would be correct.

No one here or in YMDC has said why they cant. They do not have bulky or very bulky that I see. Sounds like you might have a new tactic to play with.

Nice one! That's a fun trick, and in this game, for example, it would have been really useful to get further out of LoS after seeing his clever counter-deployment.

Love your stuff as always Reecius.

How will the new servo skull mania change how you use this army? I was planning on something similar, but am shelving it for an IF drop pod army with 45 marines coming down first turn and then 30 more in the following turns. Similar concept, getting a large number of marines in your face early on....