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Made in gb
Nurgle Predator Driver with an Infestation





Plymouth

I wasn't going to plan on using Storm Boyz at all, however I picked up a unit fairly cheap from ebay, so I thought I might try them out.

What is the best way to use them? Unit size? Is Zagstruk a decent character?

Thanks in advance!

You're rich! You're flashy! You 'ave a proppa Orky stoutness about your belly! And you've got more big, shooty, and dead 'ard gear than any 2 other Orks put together. Da uvver clans orta make way for da Bad Moons!

7th Ed Orks 63-14-2 
   
Made in us
[ARTICLE MOD]
Fixture of Dakka






Chicago

If you're going to use them, I'd go with as large a unit as possible, because between shooting and overwatch, you might not have many make it to combat otherwise.

I'd try to advance them behind some sort of screen, like a wall of battlewagons too, that way they're not the obvious "first target" your opponent will go for.

I prefer a simple PK nob to Zagstruk myself.

   
Made in fr
Lead-Footed Trukkboy Driver





I said it before and I think it needs to be repeated : 5 Stormboyz (including a Nob with Power Klaw, Heavy Armor and Bosspole) are a very underestimated unit.

For 105pts, you basically have a fast moving 6-wounds Power Klaw that will make short work of any AV10-11 rear armor vehicles.

I'm really fond of this unit. It's fearly cheap so if you lose it, no biggie. It's *really* easy to hide out of LoS (behind vehicles for example), and has an incredible threat range.

"To try it is to love it!"

PS : I also prefer a regular Nob to Zagstruk.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2013/11/09 16:11:54


Deffskullz desert scavengers
Thousand Sons 
   
Made in us
Tough-as-Nails Ork Boy





Washington, DC

Just to offer a counter opinion, Zaggstruk lets you assault out of deepstrike, which is really, really valuable. Rather than sneaking up behind a battlewagon screen, just plop them in your enemy's back line on turn 2 and go to town! All that and a fancy initiative 3 PK for only 45 points more than the nob. Shoot, actually, 33 points more, cuz with a nob you have to buy the original storm boy he's upgraded from. Bargain!

From there, they can crack vehicles, artillery, keep key units bogged down in combat while you advance- lotsa good stuff.

10+ Zag is 205 points- you'll lose a lot going in, but something will crunch.
20+ Zag is 325. This might be a little overkill... But it terrifies shooty armies to have this drop in behind their precious gunline.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/11/09 16:30:52


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Made in gb
Foolproof Falcon Pilot





Livingston, United Kingdom

The problem with Stormboyz is that they don't provide much that Trukkboyz wouldn't give you for less. But Nym probably has a point there - a smallish unit does have a certain throw-away quality to it, and isn't reliant upon a large vehicle for transport. Just don't be surprised when you find opponents killing them really quickly - nobody likes Jump troops, especially not ones that look so cool. With that kind of attention, and only 6+ saves to rely on, the poor guys don't last long.
   
Made in gb
Nurgle Predator Driver with an Infestation





Plymouth

Thanks for the in-depth feedback, i was thinking of fielding 10 + Zagstruk and using them as a backfield unit that would just cause havoc. I know they're pretty fragile, so having at least 10, losing D3 on the charge and then maybe some in overwatch, there would still be enough to cause a headache to many armies.

My main argument now for stormboyz over trukkboyz is that, a trukk can get ruined horrifically easy so I never try to run them, and stormboyz and jump over difficult terrain without wrecking themselves. I can see them being one of those units people target pretty quick, but if they can survive getting shot up, they could bunker down a unit for a turn or 2, giving the rest of the boyz time to advance a bit more safely.

You're rich! You're flashy! You 'ave a proppa Orky stoutness about your belly! And you've got more big, shooty, and dead 'ard gear than any 2 other Orks put together. Da uvver clans orta make way for da Bad Moons!

7th Ed Orks 63-14-2 
   
Made in us
[ARTICLE MOD]
Fixture of Dakka






Chicago

My issue with Zag is that it's a high-risk strategy. You can't move or run after landing, and so in order to make that assault-after-deepstrike thing work, you need to land close enough to assault. Orks have no form of homing beacon, nor any sort of drop pod to make this a safer move.

That means you're going to mishap, or land out of charge range roughly one in three times that you try it. (one in three times, you'll land on target, and half the remaining scatters won't hurt you).

If you're comfortable with losing your 325 point unit one in three games, by all means, go for it. But don't curse bad luck or the dice when it happens, because you know going in, you have a 1-in-3 failure rate.

To me, that's too high a failure rate for an expensive unit.

   
Made in nz
Longtime Dakkanaut





New Zealand

The above is good advice for the current codex, and you might as well try them out since you already have the models. But don't be too surprised if the forthcoming codex changes their best build and tactics - for better or worse.
   
Made in gb
Nurgle Predator Driver with an Infestation





Plymouth

 Clang wrote:
The above is good advice for the current codex, and you might as well try them out since you already have the models. But don't be too surprised if the forthcoming codex changes their best build and tactics - for better or worse.


Yeah true, however we've got a good 6 months before the new codex so plenty of time

You're rich! You're flashy! You 'ave a proppa Orky stoutness about your belly! And you've got more big, shooty, and dead 'ard gear than any 2 other Orks put together. Da uvver clans orta make way for da Bad Moons!

7th Ed Orks 63-14-2 
   
Made in us
Stealthy Grot Snipa






New England

 randomtoaster wrote:

My main argument now for stormboyz over trukkboyz is that, a trukk can get ruined horrifically easy so I never try to run them, and stormboyz and jump over difficult terrain without wrecking themselves. I can see them being one of those units people target pretty quick, but if they can survive getting shot up, they could bunker down a unit for a turn or 2, giving the rest of the boyz time to advance a bit more safely.


-Though, giving trukks a reinforced ram, they become as invulnerable to difficult terrain tests as a skimmer. (I actually should model my trucks with hover-treads for that reason). Rolling double ones is a very slim chance. Besides even when it does happen, it is a whatever situation.
-As far as hiding the models out of LOS, It may just because I use the old trukk models (cheaper to find), but I find no trouble in hiding the trukks behind terrain. I have fielded both units and I discovered that a unit of even 5 stormboys makes a bigger target than the trukk. Even if you do cram the boys together, one frag missile takes them out.
-I think all that trukks do not have in comparison is the ability to deepstrike.

But since this is how to use STORMBOYS, here are some suggestions

I do not run stormboys that often anymore, but when I do I take 10.
-2 squads of 5
-Flanking the least-defensible side, usually working together (provides ability to charge multiple Heavy Weapon Teams)
-Always take PK
-Priority: Heavy Weapons, Vehicles

The trick that I have found for taking stormboys is having something scary in your army that takes the shots or attention, while laying waste to enemy assault specialists. I take Boomwagons, Lootas, and hordes of boys in Battlewagons. The stormboys usually end up underestimated as the enemy focuses on the big targets, which usually ends up being a big mistake as the opponent ends up losing their ranged support. (this in turn allows my boys to rush out of their battlewagons guns blazing and charge the enemy at the signal of the smoke.)

   
Made in us
Gnawing Giant Rat



Cincinnati, OH

I've used them before and using them with zagstrukk and deep striking them worked somewhat for me. Their only use that I saw was when you needed to annihilate a particular unit. After killing the unit they assault when they land they tend to get shot very quickly but a unit of 10 with Zag should get rid of a good size target unit to justify the cost.

 
   
Made in au
Crazed Spirit of the Defiler





Medrengard

I usually have my stormboys outclassed by my deffkoptas in most games, but i still find it hilarious to deepstrike them near some scout snipers and assault them in the following turn

   
Made in us
Tough-as-Nails Ork Boy





Washington, DC

Yeah, random scatter on deepstrike is certainly an issue. It can ruin your day, no question. But 10 Boyz gives you a pretty big circle to charge from, you can plop them between two targets so scatter in those directions doesn't hurt so much, and a turn 2 WAAAGH! Will help you get a nice long assault (as well as supe up your Dakkajets who may also be entering that turn). So, yes, as with so many ork things it can go horribly wrong, but I'd be a little more optimistic than Redbeard.

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Made in fr
Lead-Footed Trukkboy Driver





DaisyWondercow wrote:
and a turn 2 WAAAGH! Will help you get a nice long assault

Stormboyz don't have the Waaagh! rule.

Deffskullz desert scavengers
Thousand Sons 
   
Made in us
Big Mek in Kustom Dragster with Soopa-Gun





Nebraska, USA

Stormboys do not benefit from WAAAAGH! unless Zagstruk is with them for some reason. I honestly thought that was a typo but i dont see any fix for it. Bikers in the BRB cannot get fleet so theres that one about upgrading nobz to bikernobz, but wth is stopping Stormboyz from getting it? makes no sense.

Zagstruk is pointless now days though. He needs an obsured amount of luck to deepstrike charge now due to varied charge and overwatch. 15 games in a row i used him, only 2 of those he DIDNT mishap and DIDNT fail his charge, and one of those 2 games it was only a scoring unit in the back since he came in late as hell.

That being said i love stormboyz, but i feel that without a wagon list for them to hide behind turn 1 they dont do anything since theyre easy to pick off.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/11/11 00:17:41


An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.

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Made in fr
Lead-Footed Trukkboy Driver





 Vineheart01 wrote:
Stormboys do not benefit from WAAAAGH! unless Zagstruk is with them for some reason.

Neither Stormboyz nor Zagstruk have the Waaagh rule, so I don't really understand what you mean here.

Deffskullz desert scavengers
Thousand Sons 
   
Made in us
Ork Boy Hangin' off a Trukk





Fort Collins, CO

I run stormboyz n zagstrukk as deepstrike units for my trukk list. 50% of the time he does his job tying up or destroying backfield units. The other 50% he lands out in la la land n gets shot off the table. But hey, were orks and its all about the random madness that makes this army fun to run.

I feel the need, the need for speed. 
   
Made in gb
Nurgle Predator Driver with an Infestation





Plymouth

 Nym wrote:
 Vineheart01 wrote:
Stormboys do not benefit from WAAAAGH! unless Zagstruk is with them for some reason.

Neither Stormboyz nor Zagstruk have the Waaagh rule, so I don't really understand what you mean here.


Zagstruk has the waaagh rule, so I guess that he stormboyz benefit from him having it


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Redbeard wrote:
If you're going to use them, I'd go with as large a unit as possible, because between shooting and overwatch, you might not have many make it to combat otherwise.


Overwatch might not be a huge problem, unless loaded dice, not many people can be THAT lucky to roll a tonne of 6's!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/11/11 16:56:10


You're rich! You're flashy! You 'ave a proppa Orky stoutness about your belly! And you've got more big, shooty, and dead 'ard gear than any 2 other Orks put together. Da uvver clans orta make way for da Bad Moons!

7th Ed Orks 63-14-2 
   
Made in fr
Lead-Footed Trukkboy Driver





 randomtoaster wrote:
Zagstruk has the waaagh rule, so I guess that he stormboyz benefit from him having it

He doesn't in the french codex, but that's probably just a translation mistake I guess.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/11/11 23:51:30


Deffskullz desert scavengers
Thousand Sons 
   
Made in us
Big Mek in Kustom Dragster with Soopa-Gun





Nebraska, USA

probably a typo then because he has it in the english one. his rules are only listed on his profile page, since the stormboyz only says "Led by Zagstruk" and nothing else about who the crap that is lol

An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.

14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys 
   
Made in us
Tough-as-Nails Ork Boy





Washington, DC

Bizarre- in the long description area with the picture and rules explanation, it says Stormboyz benefit from WAAGH!. In the short rules summary at the end, it doesn't list it.

Based on it being listed in at least one place, and with the more in-depth rules, I'd argue that stormboyz DO benefit from the rule.

Edit: In addition, the WAAAGH! rule explicitly states that it applies to all non-Gretchin ork infantry, so even if it were not listed, I think it would apply. It's not like the stormboyz are just gonna sit down and behave during a WAAAGH!

Edit 2: FAQ removes it.... Damn.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2013/11/12 13:05:34


Check out my gathering Waaagh! of drunken orks: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/559908.page 
   
Made in us
Big Mek in Kustom Dragster with Soopa-Gun





Nebraska, USA

True, and the only actual Ork units that wouldnt benefit are either vehicles or bikers, since neither can benefit from Fleet to begin with.

Also it wouldnt be the only typo in the ork codex. After all, Warbikers are listed as having 2 wounds lol. If they had 2 wounds for 25pts, omg i would be spamming the hell out of them rofl

An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.

14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys 
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






 Redbeard wrote:
My issue with Zag is that it's a high-risk strategy. You can't move or run after landing, and so in order to make that assault-after-deepstrike thing work, you need to land close enough to assault. Orks have no form of homing beacon, nor any sort of drop pod to make this a safer move.

That means you're going to mishap, or land out of charge range roughly one in three times that you try it. (one in three times, you'll land on target, and half the remaining scatters won't hurt you).

If you're comfortable with losing your 325 point unit one in three games, by all means, go for it. But don't curse bad luck or the dice when it happens, because you know going in, you have a 1-in-3 failure rate.

To me, that's too high a failure rate for an expensive unit.


Someone mathhammered this a while back, taking into account all possible combinations of scatter and assault rolls as well as different options of forming the third ring of boyz in the formation, and came up with a ~50% chance of successfully assaulting from deep strike if you deploy Zagstrukk 6" from your target.

For 325 points that's still not acceptable though, considering that the other 50% will most likely have them end up dead. It's really like deep-striking landraiders.

Also, for the discussion of the Waaagh! rule: The Waaagh only every gives fleet to non-grot infantry models. Both Zagstrukk and Stormboyz are jump infantry units, so the Waaagh! wouldn't do anything for them, whether they had it or not. GW only remove the rule from certain units to prevent confusion.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/11/12 08:16:34


7 Ork facts people always get wrong:
Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other.
A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot.
Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests.
Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books.
Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor.
Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers.
Orks do not have the power of believe. 
   
Made in us
Member of a Lodge? I Can't Say




WI

Taking Grotsnik as a HQ and giving them a 5++ save via Cybork is an option, but would do it only for a 10 boy mob with Zag. Some feel it is to expensive, but I am the type of guy who gives the entire army Cybork, even the Boyz to give every Ork a 5++ save.

Been playing 40k on and off since 89.
Armies...
Orks, Eldar, Lamentors, Pre-Heresy EC, CSM EC, and IG.  
   
Made in fr
Lead-Footed Trukkboy Driver





DaisyWondercow wrote:
Bizarre- in the long description area with the picture and rules explanation, it says Stormboyz benefit from WAAGH!.

Well, Stormboyz are the first bullet point in our Errata / FAQ, which says "Stormboyz : The ‘Waaagh!’ specialrule should be deleted".

Deffskullz desert scavengers
Thousand Sons 
   
Made in us
Tough-as-Nails Ork Boy





Washington, DC

Shoot, you're totally right. Point ceded.

I guess the "infantry" in "jump infantry" had me hoping. That makes them much less reliable. And means I was cheating in my last two games. :O

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Made in us
Grovelin' Grot





I like to take 15-20 in a unit with Zag, but then again I personally play Orks just to kinda throw some tactics out the window. I figure if it fails then I still have a ton of boyz to finish the job.


5000 points Orks
3000 points Tzentch Daemons
2000 points CSM Thousand Sons
4000 points Skaven

 
   
Made in us
Member of a Lodge? I Can't Say




WI

DaisyWondercow wrote:
Shoot, you're totally right. Point ceded.

I guess the "infantry" in "jump infantry" had me hoping. That makes them much less reliable. And means I was cheating in my last two games. :O


People make mistakes in this game all the time. You were only cheating if you knew it was wrong but were doing it anyways.

This is one of the reasons why I post on Dakka Dakka though, to help me learn the rules. It forces me to read the books and actually look up stuff and look on the FAQs. I don't mind being proven wrong and I learn stuff all the time. I feel it makes me a better 40k player.

Been playing 40k on and off since 89.
Armies...
Orks, Eldar, Lamentors, Pre-Heresy EC, CSM EC, and IG.  
   
 
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