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I used to play a full reserve style with my GK in 5th and have struggled to adapt the army to 6th with more/better shooting out there and the being tabled if no models are on the table thing. If I put down just Crowe or Draigo in the extreme edge of my deployment zone could your army kill him in Turn 1 and table me? What if he was out of LOS or embarked in a building? Thanks for any feedback.

In home games I can get away with it but I fear that armies with Drop Pods or other ways to get right up in there could be trouble. The rest of my army will arrive in Stormravens from reserve with a Communion boost on Turn 2. It's cinematic and fun style of play with dangerous Skies of Fury drops and other silliness but it would suck to get tabled before I got to roll reserves in. I will usually either hide out of sight with Draigo or Crowe depending on the list and occasionally put a pair of Psyflmen with them to take down fast movers.

MWHAHAHAHAHA IMPLAER CANNON AND HIVE GUARD ARE THE BANE OF YOUR EXISTENCE MWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Away from the madness of that half of my personality I AM NOT CRAZY! I am surprised how many grey knight players need tactical support now. It seems they are not the gods of the battle field they used to be.

Crowe is trivial to kill, 4 lascannons/equivalent make short work of him. Only way to keep him safe is to make sure he is out of LOS and hope that opponent didn't bring any Barrage with him.

Draigo is much harder to kill, because of EW and 3++, so he'd probably work just fine. Remember that if you take draigo, you can also take 1-man paladin units and just hide them out of LOS.

If you're going for full reserve list, adl+comms relay is very good idea to have.

Ignore this, forgot how the reserves rules worked...

 Chaos Rising wrote:
MWHAHAHAHAHA IMPLAER CANNON AND HIVE GUARD ARE THE BANE OF YOUR EXISTENCE MWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Away from the madness of that half of my personality I AM NOT CRAZY! I am surprised how many grey knight players need tactical support now. It seems they are not the gods of the battle field they used to be.

Are you trying to troll? You seem to be under the impression that grey knight players are incapable of playing the game without an depending on a powerful codex. It may have been the case in 5th ed ( I wouldn't know I started 40k in 6th ed,) but right now the codex is sorely lacking in certain aspects which some armies and rule changes bring to light. Comments like yours are not needed, constructive advice is, especially in the tactics forum.

My experience at least when it comes to deep strike is that the lack of drop pods hurts far too much. Drop pod deepstrike is far more forgiving and provides an area of cover that Grey knights landing on an open field don't have. That and having to make the choice of shoot and stay in a clump, or move and not shoot only makes it worse. See if you can make use of Purgation squads since they can get teleport homers?

Barring really nasty terrain, sisters may well be able to turn-one down draigo with lots of edge-of-range meltas and MM, I'm not actually sure.

theres a couple ways but honestly, my space wovles and now and then nids are the only way id make a normal list that would drop down on him and thats just a drop pod list, could always scatter. theres options for the other ones but none that id throw in a blind all comers list. longhead blast but if out of los no issue

I don't understand the title here; why are you comparing Crowe and Draigo? One is easy to kill and one is hard to kill, so is it a trick question?

All kidding aside, Grey Knights can't do a full reserve force anymore as 6th edition rules make it illegal. Anyone picking the wording of TDA to do otherwise is both reaching and cheating.

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:
I don't understand the title here; why are you comparing Crowe and Draigo? One is easy to kill and one is hard to kill, so is it a trick question?

All kidding aside, Grey Knights can't do a full reserve force anymore as 6th edition rules make it illegal. Anyone picking the wording of TDA to do otherwise is both reaching and cheating.

Put everything in flyers and you can.

 Illumini wrote:

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:
I don't understand the title here; why are you comparing Crowe and Draigo? One is easy to kill and one is hard to kill, so is it a trick question?

All kidding aside, Grey Knights can't do a full reserve force anymore as 6th edition rules make it illegal. Anyone picking the wording of TDA to do otherwise is both reaching and cheating.

Put everything in flyers and you can.

Exactly. I have 2 Stormravens with 10 Purifiers and a Dread in each for the Crowe list and I put 5 Paladins in each Raven with the Draigo list. They are all riding in a Flyer so they can all go into reserve. The only limitation is the "no models on the table, you lose" rule that is new to 6th. I only said Crowe or Draigo in the initial post because those are the two HQ's I use.

It seems that only Drop Pods and Spore Pods could really get to a model hiding out of LOS in my DZ. Against all the new shooty armies the real danger is putting my elite army on the table so it can be shot off the board before I get into range...

 Illumini wrote:

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:
I don't understand the title here; why are you comparing Crowe and Draigo? One is easy to kill and one is hard to kill, so is it a trick question?

All kidding aside, Grey Knights can't do a full reserve force anymore as 6th edition rules make it illegal. Anyone picking the wording of TDA to do otherwise is both reaching and cheating.

Put everything in flyers and you can.

Sure, but then you are talking about 3 Ravens and 4 units at best, which would be a terrible army. Also, small chance of auto-losing on turn 2 as well. IMO that is.

Having started playing a Paladin star in 6th, I can tell you Draigo will either survive a great deal of the game or get obliterated on turn one, it seems. No "shades of grey" on that one (pun fully intended).

I've lost him turn one to Jaws of the World Wolf (LAME) and lots of Gravity Guns. On the other hand, I have had him be a one man wrecking ball against daemons armies while the Paladins go about their merry way with their pal Coteaz.

Killing a T5, W4, 2+, 3++, Eternal Warrior is not easy. Giving him and Apothecary makes it even more dumb. I have seen him tank ALL the vindicator shots for two turns while his Dreadknight friends go on a murderous rampage through backfields.

As for Crowe? You better hide him out of LOS or he's lascannon bait.

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:
I don't understand the title here; why are you comparing Crowe and Draigo? One is easy to kill and one is hard to kill, so is it a trick question?

All kidding aside, Grey Knights can't do a full reserve force anymore as 6th edition rules make it illegal. Anyone picking the wording of TDA to do otherwise is both reaching and cheating.

You can still run an all reserve GK list legally, due to GK TDA retaining the old "may always start in reserve ..." special rule. With Mordrak arriving turn 1 and all TDA not counting towards limit, it can be done. Not smart, but it can be done.

SJ

 jeffersonian000 wrote:

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:
I don't understand the title here; why are you comparing Crowe and Draigo? One is easy to kill and one is hard to kill, so is it a trick question?

All kidding aside, Grey Knights can't do a full reserve force anymore as 6th edition rules make it illegal. Anyone picking the wording of TDA to do otherwise is both reaching and cheating.

You can still run an all reserve GK list legally, due to GK TDA retaining the old "may always start in reserve ..." special rule. With Mordrak arriving turn 1 and all TDA not counting towards limit, it can be done. Not smart, but it can be done.

SJ

No, you can't. "May always start in reserves" doesn't get around the reserves cap. Only "must" gets around it.

It doesn't take much thinking to kill this setup in one turn. Any IG player with good artillery will make short work of this, unless you have some good sneaky-sneaky.

Chrysis wrote:

 jeffersonian000 wrote:

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:
I don't understand the title here; why are you comparing Crowe and Draigo? One is easy to kill and one is hard to kill, so is it a trick question?

All kidding aside, Grey Knights can't do a full reserve force anymore as 6th edition rules make it illegal. Anyone picking the wording of TDA to do otherwise is both reaching and cheating.

You can still run an all reserve GK list legally, due to GK TDA retaining the old "may always start in reserve ..." special rule. With Mordrak arriving turn 1 and all TDA not counting towards limit, it can be done. Not smart, but it can be done.

SJ

No, you can't. "May always start in reserves" doesn't get around the reserves cap. Only "must" gets around it.

Special rule trumps general rule, per the BRB. GK TDA still retain the old wording allowing models in TDA to ignore mission limitations on reserves. The 50% units in reserves cap is a mission limitation, per the BRB.

Still a stupid tactic, as Mordrak+Ghosts+IC has a low chance of surviving 1 turn unsupported if played wrong. But it is a legal tactic.

SJ