Switch Theme:

Drop pod scatters off the table partially, but still connects with a tank parked on the edge.  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in ca
Nasty Nob






So I was playing a game, and came down in a drop pod right next to a line of tanks. I scattered toward the edge, and landed partially off, but still clipped the tank that I had scattered through by a good margin; we rolled for it and I took a mishap, but I was wondering what the general consencus would be.

Do I get to activate the inertial guidance system rule, or does having landed partially off the table go into immediate effect first?

ERJAK wrote:


The fluff is like ketchup and mustard on a burger. Yes it's desirable, yes it makes things better, but no it doesn't fundamentally change what you're eating and no you shouldn't just drown the whole meal in it.

 
   
Made in us
The Hive Mind





Off the table is off the table IMO.

My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals.
 
   
Made in fi
Confessor Of Sins




I'm inclined to agree - off the table triggers a mishap. Having the guidance system save you from it would be an advantage and in general you should avoid that when a rule could go both ways.
   
Made in be
Kelne





That way,then left

Would the position you'd be once the scatter is reduced (off the tanks) still touching the board's edge? If so you'd mishap.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




If the scatter puts you on the tank (or another model), then you reduce scatter until you are no longer on the model. If the scatter puts you off the table, and not touching another vehicle, then inertial guidance can't reduce the scatter since it only activates if you would land on the model, even if there is a model on the line from your intended landing spot to where you ended up.

For example:
* = Intended spot
- = line from intended spot to scatter point.
X= Friendly model
O = scatter point (in this case, let's make it a 12" scatter, each character is 1")
| = end of table.

*------X----O|

This would put the center of the drop pod at the edge of the table, so a good 2-3" is hanging off the end of the table. In this case, the drop pod is not on impassable terrain or another model so inertial guidance doesn't trigger.

How about if the friendly model was 2" away from the edge, so the drop pod is now hanging off the edge but on top of a model. Because the scatter is on top of a model, intertial guidance decreases the scatter to the point where the model is no longer under the drop pod, even though that pulls the drop pod over the top of the model and away from the table edge.

*----------XO|
becomes
*--------O--X-|


As you can see though, it would take a pretty large scatter to get in this situation, assuming you picked a legal landing point in the first place.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/11/11 20:13:06


DS:70S++G+MB-IPw40k10#+D++++A+/aWD-R+T(D)DM+ 
   
Made in gb
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain





The Rock

Drop Pod mishap. End of.

AoV's Hobby Blog 29/04/18 The Tomb World stirs p44
How to take decent photos of your models
There's a beast in every man, and it stirs when you put a sword in his hand
Most importantly, Win or Lose, always try to have fun.
Armies Legion: Dark Angels 
   
Made in ca
Nasty Nob






yeah, The scatter was about 9 inches. At around 4 I hit the russ, then at 8 I was partially off the table, but still sitting well on top of the russ, if I reduced to get 'off' the tank, I would have been completely on the table.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/11/11 20:20:44


ERJAK wrote:


The fluff is like ketchup and mustard on a burger. Yes it's desirable, yes it makes things better, but no it doesn't fundamentally change what you're eating and no you shouldn't just drown the whole meal in it.

 
   
Made in us
Captain of the Forlorn Hope





Chicago, IL

 angelofvengeance wrote:
Drop Pod mishap. End of.

Not in the situation the OP described, in light of the new evidence...
 davou wrote:
yeah, The scatter was about 9 inches. At around 4 I hit the russ, then at 8 I was partially off the table, but still sitting well on top of the russ, if I reduced to get 'off' the tank, I would have been completely on the table.

Then the Pod would not have mishapped.

"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.

I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!

We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
 
   
Made in ca
Irked Necron Immortal






Halifax, NS

I would agree that it's a mishap

 
   
Made in us
Captain of the Forlorn Hope





Chicago, IL

disdamn wrote:
I would agree that it's a mishap

Except it is not a mishap once he reduced the scatter.

re-read this post of his:

 davou wrote:
yeah, The scatter was about 9 inches. At around 4 I hit the russ, then at 8 I was partially off the table, but still sitting well on top of the russ, if I reduced to get 'off' the tank, I would have been completely on the table.

"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.

I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!

We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
 
   
Made in us
The Hive Mind





He doesn't have permission to reduce mishap for ending off the table.

He's mishapping for two reasons. Drop Pods allow him to reduce for one, but not the other.

My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals.
 
   
Made in tr
Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator





So the drop pod will be in a superposition of both not being on the table for scattering outside and on the table for scattering on a unit ?

Do explain further please

Weyland-Yutani
Building Better Terrains

https://www.weyland-yutani-inc.com/

https://www.facebook.com/weylandyutaniinc/

 Grey Templar wrote:
The Riptide can't be a giant death robot, its completely lacking a sword or massive chainsaw. All giant death robots have swords or massive chainsaws.
 
   
Made in us
The Hive Mind





 pizzaguardian wrote:
So the drop pod will be in a superposition of both not being on the table for scattering outside and on the table for scattering on a unit ?

Do explain further please

It's not a difficult concept.
When a Land Raider arrives from Reserves the embarked unit can get out. They still cannot charge, however, because there are two restrictions in place - disembarking from a transport (lifted because of Assault Vehicle), arriving from Reserves.
When a Drop Pod arrives and is over a unit and off the table it has mishapped. There are two reasons - final placement being over a unit (lifted because of IGS) and final placement being off the board.

My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals.
 
   
Made in us
Never Forget Isstvan!






the final placement isnt off the board, cause the scatter gets reduced.

JOIN MY CRUSADE and gain 4000 RT points!
http://www.eternalcrusade.com/account/sign-up/?ref_code=EC-PLCIKYCABW8PG 
   
Made in us
The Hive Mind





Eihnlazer wrote:
the final placement isnt off the board, cause the scatter gets reduced.

Read the IGS rule again.

If you scatter off the board, you suffer a mishap. The OP scattered off the board. He just so happened to also be on top of a unit, but he still mishaps.

My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals.
 
   
Made in us
Never Forget Isstvan!






Does it say:

If the final position of your scatter lies off the board you mishap
or
If the scatter roll places the pod off the board you mishap.


Because those would end in different rulings.

JOIN MY CRUSADE and gain 4000 RT points!
http://www.eternalcrusade.com/account/sign-up/?ref_code=EC-PLCIKYCABW8PG 
   
Made in us
Powerful Phoenix Lord





Buffalo, NY

If the Drop Pod scatters on top of impassable terrain or another model, reduce the scatter. Note that if a Drop Pod scatters off the edge of the board it suffers a Mishap.

I paraphrased the SM codex.

Greebo had spent an irritating two minutes in that box. Technically, a cat locked in a box may be alive or it may be dead. You never know until you look. In fact, the mere act of opening the box will determine the state of the cat, although in this case there were three determinate states the cat could be in: these being Alive, Dead, and Bloody Furious.
Orks always ride in single file to hide their strength and numbers.
Gozer the Gozerian, Gozer the Destructor, Volguus Zildrohar, Gozer the Traveler, and Lord of the Sebouillia 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




rigeld2 wrote:
Eihnlazer wrote:
the final placement isnt off the board, cause the scatter gets reduced.

Read the IGS rule again.

If you scatter off the board, you suffer a mishap. The OP scattered off the board. He just so happened to also be on top of a unit, but he still mishaps.


As much as I hate being in a situation where I have to defend Space Marines rules...... In order for the rule to be interpreted in the way you are describing, then the IGS rule would never come into play. You have the mishap rule being triggered by the scatter dice, but before the final position is determined. That would mean if you scatter into a unit, you mishap, roll on the mishap table, and reduce your scatter. I don't know how that could possible be resolved for any roll other than your opponent getting to place you, and then you could reduce the scatter.

The mishap is triggered by the final position, not the scatter die roll. You roll the scatter dice, measure the location, determine if you are on impassable terrain or another model, apply relevant rules to determine the final location. Then you can resolve the mishap, if it's still relevant.

I would love it if the IGS rule was nerfed in some way (and ATSKNF, but that's a different story) but it's not going to be. Space Marines are the Emperors gift to the world and GW is their prophet.

DS:70S++G+MB-IPw40k10#+D++++A+/aWD-R+T(D)DM+ 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Tye_Informer wrote:
The mishap is triggered by the final position, not the scatter die roll. You roll the scatter dice, measure the location, determine if you are on impassable terrain or another model, apply relevant rules to determine the final location. Then you can resolve the mishap, if it's still relevant..


Measure and apply the relevant rules. Ok, Pod scattered off the table, therefore you apply the Mishap rule. Pod is on top of an enemy, therefore you apply the IGS rule. You now have two rules that you have to apply. See the contradiction?
   
Made in tr
Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator





rigeld2 wrote:
 pizzaguardian wrote:
So the drop pod will be in a superposition of both not being on the table for scattering outside and on the table for scattering on a unit ?

Do explain further please

It's not a difficult concept.
When a Land Raider arrives from Reserves the embarked unit can get out. They still cannot charge, however, because there are two restrictions in place - disembarking from a transport (lifted because of Assault Vehicle), arriving from Reserves.
When a Drop Pod arrives and is over a unit and off the table it has mishapped. There are two reasons - final placement being over a unit (lifted because of IGS) and final placement being off the board.


Not the same thing actually, since IGS actually requires to you take an action "reducing scatter", while you dont have to assault when you disembark from an assault vehicle which the reserves rule would interfere and create a similar situation here. If assaulting was mandatory then yes.

Not the same thing at all.

Weyland-Yutani
Building Better Terrains

https://www.weyland-yutani-inc.com/

https://www.facebook.com/weylandyutaniinc/

 Grey Templar wrote:
The Riptide can't be a giant death robot, its completely lacking a sword or massive chainsaw. All giant death robots have swords or massive chainsaws.
 
   
Made in us
Hellish Haemonculus






Boskydell, IL

I play Drop Pods, and I'm tempted to agree with rigeld that it mishaps.

However, I'm less than certain. If it came up in a game, I think I would point out the two relevant rules and let my opponent decide how it should play out, in the interests of good sportsmanship.

Welcome to the Freakshow!

(Leadership-shenanigans for Eldar of all types.) 
   
Made in us
The Hive Mind





Tye_Informer wrote:
The mishap is triggered by the final position, not the scatter die roll. You roll the scatter dice, measure the location, determine if you are on impassable terrain or another model, apply relevant rules to determine the final location. Then you can resolve the mishap, if it's still relevant.

Perhaps you should read IGS. The rule actually says that if the pod scatters off the board it mishaps. Using the same phrasing as if you scatter over a unit.

So IGS says you mishap.

I would love it if the IGS rule was nerfed in some way (and ATSKNF, but that's a different story) but it's not going to be. Space Marines are the Emperors gift to the world and GW is their prophet.

Adds nothing to the conversation. I'm discussing without bias.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 pizzaguardian wrote:
rigeld2 wrote:
 pizzaguardian wrote:
So the drop pod will be in a superposition of both not being on the table for scattering outside and on the table for scattering on a unit ?

Do explain further please

It's not a difficult concept.
When a Land Raider arrives from Reserves the embarked unit can get out. They still cannot charge, however, because there are two restrictions in place - disembarking from a transport (lifted because of Assault Vehicle), arriving from Reserves.
When a Drop Pod arrives and is over a unit and off the table it has mishapped. There are two reasons - final placement being over a unit (lifted because of IGS) and final placement being off the board.


Not the same thing actually, since IGS actually requires to you take an action "reducing scatter", while you dont have to assault when you disembark from an assault vehicle which the reserves rule would interfere and create a similar situation here. If assaulting was mandatory then yes.

Not the same thing at all.

... They are the same thing. You have 2 restrictions in both cases and a rule allowing you to ignore a restriction in both cases. Voluntary or not is irrelevant.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Eihnlazer wrote:
Does it say:

If the final position of your scatter lies off the board you mishap
or
If the scatter roll places the pod off the board you mishap.


Because those would end in different rulings.

If the pod scatters onto impassable terrain, reduce scatter. If the pod scatters off the board, Mishap.

Same wording in both places so either a) IGS does nothing or b) it mishaps if you're off the board regardless of what you're over on the board.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/11/12 00:14:48


My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals.
 
   
Made in us
Captain of the Forlorn Hope





Chicago, IL

rigeld2 wrote:
He doesn't have permission to reduce mishap for ending off the table.

He's mishapping for two reasons. Drop Pods allow him to reduce for one, but not the other.

He fulfills the condition for reducing the scatter, so you reduce the scatter as it landed on an enemy model.

In the situation the OP laid out there is no mishap because you have to reduce the scatter because of the vehicle.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/11/12 01:49:46


"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.

I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!

We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Only if you ignore the rule that says that if you scatter off the board, you mishap. That is also part of the IGS rule.
   
Made in us
Powerful Phoenix Lord





Buffalo, NY

 DeathReaper wrote:
rigeld2 wrote:
He doesn't have permission to reduce mishap for ending off the table.

He's mishapping for two reasons. Drop Pods allow him to reduce for one, but not the other.

He fulfills the condition for reducing the scatter, so you reduce the scatter as it landed on an enemy model.

In the situation the OP laid out there is no mishap because you have to reduce the scatter because of the vehicle.


Except, per the rules of IGS since it scattered off the table it does mishap. So it both mishaps, and reduces the scatter.

Greebo had spent an irritating two minutes in that box. Technically, a cat locked in a box may be alive or it may be dead. You never know until you look. In fact, the mere act of opening the box will determine the state of the cat, although in this case there were three determinate states the cat could be in: these being Alive, Dead, and Bloody Furious.
Orks always ride in single file to hide their strength and numbers.
Gozer the Gozerian, Gozer the Destructor, Volguus Zildrohar, Gozer the Traveler, and Lord of the Sebouillia 
   
Made in us
Captain of the Forlorn Hope





Chicago, IL

Fragile wrote:
Only if you ignore the rule that says that if you scatter off the board, you mishap. That is also part of the IGS rule.

That's not a rule...

At least not one I am seeing in the Space Wolves codex.

"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.

I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!

We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
 
   
Made in us
Powerful Phoenix Lord





Buffalo, NY

Ah. So we have codex conflict. That explains it.

6th edition has a note in IGS that says you mishap if you scatter off the table. Wolves being an older codex, may nit have the same wording.

Greebo had spent an irritating two minutes in that box. Technically, a cat locked in a box may be alive or it may be dead. You never know until you look. In fact, the mere act of opening the box will determine the state of the cat, although in this case there were three determinate states the cat could be in: these being Alive, Dead, and Bloody Furious.
Orks always ride in single file to hide their strength and numbers.
Gozer the Gozerian, Gozer the Destructor, Volguus Zildrohar, Gozer the Traveler, and Lord of the Sebouillia 
   
Made in us
The Hive Mind





 DeathReaper wrote:
Fragile wrote:
Only if you ignore the rule that says that if you scatter off the board, you mishap. That is also part of the IGS rule.

That's not a rule...

At least not one I am seeing in the Space Wolves codex.

It is part of the Space Marine codex.
Yay for consistent inconsistency with drop pod rules.

My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals.
 
   
Made in us
Reverent Tech-Adept





This is a fun one because it is novel, but I don't think it is that complicated.

It hinges on one key question. When determining mishap, do we ask:
1) Where did the deepstriking unit land?
or
2) Where did the deepstriking unit scatter to?

I don't have my book, so I can't tell you. But, if the answer is 1, then the drop pod did not mishap as, regardless of where it scattered to, the IGS rule pulled it back and made it land on the table. If the answer is 2, then there was a mishap as mishap is determined not from the actual landing position but only by the scatter position.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/11/12 02:05:46


Think first. 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Well to answer those, the IGS rule says that if you "scatter" off the board, you mishap.
   
 
Forum Index » 40K You Make Da Call
Go to: