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Azreal- 215
command squad w/ apothecary, champion, banner of dev.
10 man tac squad w/ plasma gun plasma cannon
10 man tac squad w/ plasma gun plasma cannon
5 man DW w/ 1 TH/SS 1 plasma cannon
5 man DW w/ 1 TH/SS 1 plasma cannon
5 man DW w/ 1 TH/SS 1 assault cannon
5 man Ravenwing attack squad w/ 2 melta guns
5 man Ravenwing attack squad w/ 2 melta guns
6 man Ravenwing black knight w/ 2 grenade launchers

there are 7 scoring units here. tacs sit back in ruins with azreal and his command squad sit with them giving them the dakka goodness.

you can't post exact points costs on this forum, also your cost is off on Azrael by 5 pts.

Niexist wrote:
you can't post exact points costs on this forum

need to tell a lot of other people that as well


Automatically Appended Next Post:
gave the sgts, power weapons cuz I have 30 pts left.... and IDK what to do with them :/ plasma guns? then I lose the boltguns.. but.. baaaah IDK.

You could drop the power weapons on the sgts for a combi-plasma. Best of both worlds essentially Benefits from the dakka banner and can be used for plasma goodness if needed. Could also be a flamer to discourage charges even more due to wall of death. Would give you a few extra points to maybe give the termies a chainfist per squad just in case they run in to some big vehicles. Could also also give the biker sgt a melta bomb for the same reason. Just some ideas.

I actually like the conservative use of the dakka banner. Opponent will probably focus on those bikes and termies allowing fo the banner to survive longer. Of course, it means that all your terminators will probably die but w/e. I assume you are deep striking them turn one midfield for twin linked goodness?

I can't help but think that a librarian would really help here. Either on a bike or in terminator armor to make those knights a command squad, or to make the command squad terminators, making them significantly harder to kill. It will mean you will be cutting some units though. Just some thoughts.

- VardenV2

yeah I was considering that, but I have to keep azzy for the "my entire list is troops" shenanigans. hmm I may do that, chain fist goodness. mmmm.

 raiden wrote:
yeah I was considering that, but I have to keep azzy for the "my entire list is troops" shenanigans. hmm I may do that, chain fist goodness. mmmm.

Yeah I meant to keep Azzy in the list, just add a librarian somewhere. May not be worth the models you lose though.

- VardenV2

I could drop a bike squad. leaving me ~20 pts left over :/ hm.

 raiden wrote:
Azreal- 215
command squad w/ apothecary, champion, banner of dev.
10 man tac squad w/ power weapon Sgt. plasma cannon
10 man tac squad w/ power weapon Sgt. plasma cannon
5 man DW w/ 1 TH/SS 1 plasma cannon
5 man DW w/ 1 TH/SS 1 plasma cannon
5 man DW w/ 1 TH/SS 1 assault cannon
5 man Ravenwing attack squad w/ 2 melta guns
5 man Ravenwing attack squad w/ 2 melta guns
6 man Ravenwing black knight w/ 2 grenade launchers

there are 7 scoring units here. tacs sit back in ruins with azreal and his command squad sit with them giving them the dakka goodness.

You also need a 6 man RAS for 2 melta guns per, same as with the grenade launcher.

no.. no you dont you can take a 3 man w/ 2 special weapons by the wording in the Dex.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
new list.

Azreal- 215
command squad w/ apothecary, champion, banner of dev 1 power weapon.
10 man tac squad w/ combi-plasma Sgt. plasma cannon
10 man tac squad w/ combi-flamer Sgt. plasma cannon
5 man DW w/ 1 TH/SS 1 plasma cannon w/ 1 chain fist
5 man DW w/ 1 TH/SS 1 plasma cannon w/1 chain fist
5 man DW w/ 1 TH/SS 1 assault cannon w/ 1 chain fist
5 man Ravenwing attack squad w/ 2 melta guns
5 man Ravenwing attack squad w/ 2 melta guns
6 man Ravenwing black knight w/ 2 grenade launchers

I could drop one RWAS for a libby w/ PFG and ML 2 and have enough for 2 power weapons on the command squad. or, better yet something else???

 raiden wrote:
no.. no you dont you can take a 3 man w/ 2 special weapons by the wording in the Dex.

That's correct. You can take 2x special / squad, reardless of the size. It's probably best to take a 6 man squad w/ 2x specials and then split into two three-man squads with a special in each. Can help them pop two separate targets They fall back easier, but with Azrael you are all LD10 so it shouldn't be that big a deal.

- VardenV2

I would almost want to say drop 2 squads of terminators to bring deathwing knights in a lr

 namiel wrote:
I would almost want to say drop 2 squads of terminators to bring deathwing knights in a lr

Might not be a bad idea. He does have a decent amount of shooting and low ap attacks with the bikes and tacticals. DW Knights could be great at monster hunting if your bikes get swamped or something. You could also get away with a squad of TH/SS termies in a Land Raider crusader too, and they still count as scoring plus get the benefit of the dakka banner if need be. I find that they are a great counter-charge unit / wall (with guns) that can go stomp on any objective. Plus with the dakka banner behind the LR, it can be almost impossible to get rid of, and the LR has a 24" bubble of death surrounding it. If anything gets close enough to kill the dakka banner, it's getting charged by TH/SS termies (or Knights in this case).

- VardenV2

 VardenV2 wrote:

 namiel wrote:
I would almost want to say drop 2 squads of terminators to bring deathwing knights in a lr

Might not be a bad idea. He does have a decent amount of shooting and low ap attacks with the bikes and tacticals. DW Knights could be great at monster hunting if your bikes get swamped or something. You could also get away with a squad of TH/SS termies in a Land Raider crusader too, and they still count as scoring plus get the benefit of the dakka banner if need be. I find that they are a great counter-charge unit / wall (with guns) that can go stomp on any objective. Plus with the dakka banner behind the LR, it can be almost impossible to get rid of, and the LR has a 24" bubble of death surrounding it. If anything gets close enough to kill the dakka banner, it's getting charged by TH/SS termies (or Knights in this case).

- VardenV2

I would go with knight's. 10 points cheaper, smite mode when needed, bane of the traitor for chaos marines, ws5, possible t5. The lack of being a scoring unit is fine with this list. The problem is the requirement for the lr to be a deathwing vehicle for them to start in it. Oh well oh and for ten points you bring a relic now you cause fear and adamatium will.

 namiel wrote:

 VardenV2 wrote:

 namiel wrote:
I would almost want to say drop 2 squads of terminators to bring deathwing knights in a lr

Might not be a bad idea. He does have a decent amount of shooting and low ap attacks with the bikes and tacticals. DW Knights could be great at monster hunting if your bikes get swamped or something. You could also get away with a squad of TH/SS termies in a Land Raider crusader too, and they still count as scoring plus get the benefit of the dakka banner if need be. I find that they are a great counter-charge unit / wall (with guns) that can go stomp on any objective. Plus with the dakka banner behind the LR, it can be almost impossible to get rid of, and the LR has a 24" bubble of death surrounding it. If anything gets close enough to kill the dakka banner, it's getting charged by TH/SS termies (or Knights in this case).

- VardenV2

I would go with knight's. 10 points cheaper, smite mode when needed, bane of the traitor for chaos marines, ws5, possible t5. The lack of being a scoring unit is fine with this list. The problem is the requirement for the lr to be a deathwing vehicle for them to start in it. Oh well oh and for ten points you bring a relic now you cause fear and adamatium will.

It only costs the DW Vehicle upgrade cost to make it count as a "dedicated transport". I believe he can put a regular LR in his heavy slot and start the Knights inside during normal deployment. I think that a squad of 6 knights + a LRC with Multi-melta is like 520 points? It's a death star and a half though. If playing against CSM they are definitely a great choice.

- VardenV2

If I did that I would find points for DW vehicles those rerolls are amazing

They can't start in the lr unless its a dedicated transport

 namiel wrote:
They can't start in the lr unless its a dedicated transport

Just curious as to why this is please.

Niexist wrote:

 namiel wrote:
They can't start in the lr unless its a dedicated transport

Just curious as to why this is please.

He is asking for a rules quote

nice list I have one like it myself however the way Azrael's ruling reeds you can only still have 6 scoring units. one of the deathwing or ravenwing will need to be in another part of the force org chart.

Unforgiven Angel wrote:
nice list I have one like it myself however the way Azrael's ruling reeds you can only still have 6 scoring units. one of the deathwing or ravenwing will need to be in another part of the force org chart.

Good catch. One of those bike squads should probably be a fast attack slot, as it's better to have stationary shooting termies in cover on an objective than a bike. Plus, if you get the Fast Attack are scoring scenario you can still score with the bikes

- VardenV2

that is true, thanks for the catch.

Not sure you can just slide the bikes to fast attack as Azzy says deathwing and ravenwing count as troops instead of their normal FOC slot so I believe you don't get the option of FA or troops when including him.

Brakkus40 wrote:
Not sure you can just slide the bikes to fast attack as Azzy says deathwing and ravenwing count as troops instead of their normal FOC slot so I believe you don't get the option of FA or troops when including him.

I an take 3 MM attack bikes (squad) in there stead then.

Brakkus40 wrote:
Not sure you can just slide the bikes to fast attack as Azzy says deathwing and ravenwing count as troops instead of their normal FOC slot so I believe you don't get the option of FA or troops when including him.

You are correct. Azrael RAW shays that they now become troops as well as Belial's deathwing and Sammael's ravenwing, thank you for brining that to my attention. I plan on asking GW if you can just take them as fast attack or elites respectively but with it looks like the answer would be no.

do let me know if they respond

I just realized, that at 2k, it would be fine to have 7 squads of troops. You get double the force org (so up to 12 troop slots) So you should have no problems here

- VardenV2

Double FOC could be used, but a 2nd HQ would be needed for that.