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When you are learning to play with a particular 40k list the best way to get good at it is to playtest it! 20 games, in my oppinion, are the minimum number of games that one should play against as many different opponents as possible. This will give you a good idea of what your units are capable of doing within the game against a variety of different opponents and different missions.

I have already done a few different journeys. For WHFB I did it with my Tomb Kings. For 40k I have done it for Coven Dark Eldar. The time has come for a change! I am preparing for the MMMT VI . This charity tournament will most likely be in october of next year, so I have quite some time to get good with my list. I invite you to follow this thread. I will be analyzing the units that I have chosen tactically, the battles played and the missions that have been completed.

A Journey of one thousand steps starts with the first one.

The Voting has come to a close! The list that won by a landslide was the Vect list, it seems many of you have a dark heart... perfect! For the path of the Dark Eldar Kabalite is one full of peril and only the ruthless survive.

Since this is a multi-thread journey the in depth discussion of the core list, as it develops can be found HERE.

"How to loose friends at 40k" style list.

Vect

3 Trueborn 2 Splinter Cannon
Venom, Dual Cannon, Night Shield, Flicker Field
3 Trueborn 2 Splinter Cannon
Venom, Dual Cannon, Night Shield, Flicker Field

5 Warriors, Blaster
Venom, Dual Cannon, Night Shield, Flicker Field

5 Warriors, Blaster
Venom, Dual Cannon, Night Shield, Flicker Field

6 Warriors, Blaster
Raider, Darklance, Night Shield

6 Warriors, Blaster
Raider, Darklance, Night Shield

Ravager, Night Shield, Grisly Trophies
Ravager, Night Shield
Ravager, Night Shield

Allied Inquisitorial:
Coteaz

Tactical Notes on each individual unit will continue within the thread. Read on, comment and learn together!

Added poll. What army would you like me to break down tactically over 20games?

Seems like the Vect list is edgeing ahead.

So, ill start with my initial thoughts on this list. For about a year, I have been playing with the Coven... and this will be a complete switch.

Vect - I have used him once. He walked in and out of a bike squad, took a tonne of firepower to the face and then even after his shadow field had gone down he used his orbs to come back from the brink of death. Now I am excited to make people sweat when it comes to the stealing the initiative part! I can give people turn 1, then counter deploy and attempt to steal... this will anger a lot of people and will make them nervous. His use will prove to be amazing against eldau or taudar... being able to have a better chance at dealing them some damage.

My friend likes to field the second list with his Dark Eldar. He wins against me almost every time (I have won maybe one or two games against his list). But I am learning, and adapting... I voted for that one, actually!

The vect list will be a lot of fun to play as it will wipe out armies if played well and with a bit of luck. Thanks for voting!

You will have a lot of fun with the Vect list, I think it's a nice balance between Anti-infantry and Anti-tank. I do like the Wyches and what they can do, but I think you will enjoy Vect and his crew a lot more! Happy raiding!

It does have a good balance. And that is what the 20 games are for. To tweak things here and there. Now, I think ill use this thread as a tactical breakdown of things like deployment, target priority and unit perfornamce vs different opponents and armies and lists. I think that a separate thread over on the batrep section will house the actuall battle reports to avoid confusion at a forum level.

Ok. Since the Vect "make people cry" list is still ahead another unit breakdown is in order.

Two unist of 3 trueborn with 2 splinter cannons. Each mounted on a dedicated venom, with two splinter cannons, and a night shield.

I fell in love with the one unit that I ran playing my Coven list... They were my MVP's in a lot of games, blasting infantry and MC's. So why not two units? There is the firepower of more than 4 venoms all packed up into a neat little pointscost. Very easy to kill, but people ignore them at their own peril! The night shields will add to their survivability because at times they want to stay still to maximize poison shots. These two units, if shot at, die. But then they save the warriors who close in and start dumping rapid fire poison highly increasing the damage output of the army and making up for the loss of the smaller units. They are also great contesters late game, or linebreakers.

Revamped the title.

So, since the Vect list is still in the lead. I shall continue to make unit analysis. Next in the block:

8 Kabalites - Raider with a nightshield and lance

This is a bait unit. A speedbump, a backfield objective holder and general neusance. Used to plug gaps in the line or distract with a feint flanking manouver. Their poison rifles will be used to force grounding tests on MC's and more. In a pinch they have space for vect on their raider and the number 8 is good because even with 2 left they will be rallying at full leadership.

I am going to be travelling to Jamaica this week! Awesome sauce. So, the Vect list continues to blow away the opposition... I guess there are some very interesting tactical options with the list that people want me to explore?

So. The next unit. 9 Kabalites, blaster, raider night shields, lance

This is Vects main ride. Vect makes them fearless, preferred enemy and can tank wounds for them. They differ from the skirmishing squad that they have a blaster, and they run with the warlord. Vect is not too bad in combat either and in a pinch he can run in and beat something up. The kabalites are a very flexible troop unit and vect just adds a lot to the unit. Abeit at quite an expense. The raider is a no brainer, another lance, the night shields and of course the transport capacity.

Ok just spitballin an idea here but I think corteaz would make a great addition to this list. I coud drop the 5 man warrior squad with the venom and add corteaz and some acolytes with say plasma cannons or something to allow vect to re roll his steal the initiative. Thoughts?

Ok. Seems like the Vect list has been up on the Arena list! And the list has been truly modified. The core army at 1500pts in on the first post.

So on to another unit analysis:

Coteaz - at this point level his use is simple. Re roll Vects sieze, or make the enemy re roll their sieze. I want to go first. For powers, I am considering a discipline with as many different maledictions and shooting attacks as possible to make him useful as the game goes on.

In larger games, adding some gun servitors, or something will allow me to use his "ive been expecting you" rule.

the 5 man kabalite units:

I chose to do 5 man squads to mitigate the damage that eldar and tau can do to larger squads. Large squads or small squads makes no difference against missile broadsides. Hence the choice. Yes, I have a tonne of KP's in the list, I know that... its the hardest game for me to win... but I am prepared for that and with the initiative I should hope I can kill a priority target before it matters.

3 Ravagers, triple lances, night shields, one with a grisly trophy:

These are the heavy AT hitters in the list. 9 lances, to melt som armour and to make short work of tough units. The night shields should keep them alive from all but the most long range firepower and their movement will help keep them alive. People who have played against DE before know the danger of the ravager and will deal with them asap. Let them live at their own peril.

There are a few things that I am considering when it comes to their layout. I want to try the double lance + 1 dissy. I think this would make the tanks a lot more versatile, especially agains light armour and flying MC's. Does anyone have any experience with this lay out?

Cheers!

Looking at the powers listed in the book. For Coteaz i think telekinesis will be the most usefull 5 out of the 7 powers are maledictions or shooting attacks and they have the longest range usually. This would really help the Kabal.

I would run Coteaz on Divination overall. Misfortune, Prescience, Perfect Timing and Forewarning are all awesome. Precog is okay for him and Scryers Gaze has situational utility along with Forebearance (the overwatch one).

Overall Telekinesis has always been underwhelming to me - I think after Pyromancy it is the worst discipline.

 calypso2ts wrote:
I would run Coteaz on Divination overall. Misfortune, Prescience, Perfect Timing and Forewarning are all awesome. Precog is okay for him and Scryers Gaze has situational utility along with Forebearance (the overwatch one).

Overall Telekinesis has always been underwhelming to me - I think after Pyromancy it is the worst discipline.

Except 3 of those powers you just mentioned have no/very little use. Desperate Allies remember, so those blessings have no use apart from being used on himself. The only ones worth a dam are Misfortune and maybe Scryers gaze. Telekinesis has overall worse powers, but at least they can be used unlike Divination and have a useable range unlike pyromancy. In this scenario there simply aren't any great choices, but simply a single adequate choice. If/When he adds in a bigger inquisitor detachment like a double plasma cannon/monkey unit then he might consider divination.

In this list telekinesis has the most utility and has the range to possinly keep coteaz alive.

His default powers could be useful as long as you don't mind loosing him. Sanctuary to make everything difficult terrain for an oncoming nids/CD player, dark excommunion to strip a gifts, and hammerhand for a S8 force weapon are all useful but you will definitely loose coteaz in the process.

To be honest, when I looked at the initial list I missed there was not an inquisitorial unit to go with coteaz. It is a huge waste imo not to run him with at least a plasma cannon servitor unit. Otherwise he really does not bring anything to the army.

 calypso2ts wrote:
To be honest, when I looked at the initial list I missed there was not an inquisitorial unit to go with coteaz. It is a huge waste imo not to run him with at least a plasma cannon servitor unit. Otherwise he really does not bring anything to the army.

You mean, besides giving Skari an effective 75% chance to steal if he chooses to go second?

Iranna.

 Iranna wrote:

 calypso2ts wrote:
To be honest, when I looked at the initial list I missed there was not an inquisitorial unit to go with coteaz. It is a huge waste imo not to run him with at least a plasma cannon servitor unit. Otherwise he really does not bring anything to the army.

You mean, besides giving Skari an effective 75% chance to steal if he chooses to go second?

Iranna.

I Understand that, but I also at first saw it as kind of wasteful. The problem is he is paying for a bunch of stuff he won't use, that nice armour save and psyker mastery level don't matter much when he dies at the first plasma bolt shot at him and he has no one to buff. So essentially he is paying 100pts for an extra 25% to go first, when most people will let you go first anyhow simply to avoid being seized upon. I personally think he doesn't even need Corteaz at all, with Vects 4+ seize is enough to prompt people to go second anyhow. But that said, at higher point levels (1750+) a Corteaz detachment would be a great buy, with plasmators and monkeys and maybe an ADL, since the higher the point level the more an alpha strike matters. The real question is how much is Skari willing to pay for that re-roll, is it worth it over your other choices, and is the list made well enough to take full advantage of the alpha strike (which basically amounts to 3 ravagers, so check!). 100pts for something you are already good at? I'm not sold.

Thanks a lot for the comments! I actually got to play this list for the first time tonight. I'm off to bed but will write up a small tactical note on the game.

As for the coteaz dilema. I am purchasing the tax for the re roll to go first, but also, to force the opponent to re roll their sieze. Last thing I want is for a taudar list to let me go first, then sieze on me. Also, telekinesis is exactly what people have been stating, not the best powers, but better effective range and utility. I would consider pyromancy if playing vs nids or orks. At any higher point values a unit would automatically join coteaz to make use of his "I've been expecting you" and then maybe divination. As a single model, he is very easy to hide to prevent retaliation. And he is a bit of a beatstick as a combat character when facing non dedicated assault units, this helps my backfield from chaff. So far, so good. Then again... He didn't hold up too well against a maulerfiend. Lol.

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:


I Understand that, but I also at first saw it as kind of wasteful. The problem is he is paying for a bunch of stuff he won't use, that nice armour save and psyker mastery level don't matter much when he dies at the first plasma bolt shot at him and he has no one to buff. So essentially he is paying 100pts for an extra 25% to go first, when most people will let you go first anyhow simply to avoid being seized upon. I personally think he doesn't even need Corteaz at all, with Vects 4+ seize is enough to prompt people to go second anyhow. But that said, at higher point levels (1750+) a Corteaz detachment would be a great buy, with plasmators and monkeys and maybe an ADL, since the higher the point level the more an alpha strike matters. The real question is how much is Skari willing to pay for that re-roll, is it worth it over your other choices, and is the list made well enough to take full advantage of the alpha strike (which basically amounts to 3 ravagers, so check!). 100pts for something you are already good at? I'm not sold.

People are paying 55pts just to get an inquisitor with prescience in their armies.

I would say that the Alpha Strike is a concept that's most important to Dark Eldar. Paying 100pts to almost ensure you get 1st turn seems like a bargain to me.

Iranna.

Even when you are already have a much better chance then most other armies due to Vect? I won't begrudge you your opinion, it just seems that's quite a big tax for an improvement on something you can already do.

@ Skari: Would you consider swapping out one of your warrior squads for haywire wyches? DL are, without some hot luck, very bad at killing AV 12, while very good at AV 13 + and 11-. AV 12 seems to have a distinct place on the front of Walkers, all of which the haywire wyches would stomp all over. Just a thought to help handle that kind of thing, Dinobots, dropnaughts and psyriflemen (I LOVE how many synonyms 40K has, it makes me feel like I'm 'with it') all can take DL shots like bosses, and if the dread is venerable just forget about shooting it down. I think they would fill a distinct hole in your force.

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
Even when you are already have a much better chance then most other armies due to Vect? I won't begrudge you your opinion, it just seems that's quite a big tax for an improvement on something you can already do.

Well, when you build your list with the intention of going first and crippling your opponent, I'd imagine you'd want to make it as easy as possible for you to succeed. A 50/50 chance isn't really sufficient when you really need something to happen in your favour.

Similarly, it sucks when you're stolen from with lists such as this, as it generally means you'll lose (due to being out in the open with your fragile units). Turning an opponent's chance to steal from 1/6 to 1/36 means that if you get first turn, you will basically be keeping it.

Iranna.

All these points are valid from a tactical perspective. An inquisitor with servoskulls or a runepriest with a chooser really pits a damper on scouting armies. Like white scars.

So! On to the tactical overview of game 1. I played Jason and his Maximun Threat overload CSM and Deamon army. His list from memory:

Nurgle Sorceror - Bike
5 nurgle spawn

2 units of 10 cultists.

Helldrake - Baleflamer

2 Maulerfiends

Nurgle herald with grimoir
10 plaguebearers

10 deamonettes

15 Khorne hounds

Aegis - Quadd.

This list gets in your face fast! Everything is a threat, and then the helldrake comes in to ruin the party fun. Tactically the dogs and spawn are #1 threat. Follower by quaddgun, maulers and hellturkey. To make matters worse, it was a killpoint / crusade mission. Luckily hammer and anvil, so I would have some room to back up.

Ill do a tacticak analysis for each of my units during the game. As the journey of vect begins!

Just played in a little local tournament with a similar DEldar list, but without Coteaz. I think Coteaz' "We'll be expecting you" rule would have made a big difference if he had a squad with him. First game was against SM with 3 units of Legion of the damned plus scouts, flyer & drop pod. Second game against Khan with 5 units of outflanking bikers & 2 flyers. Last game I only had to deal with one drop pod. Overall, I struggled with lists that circumvented my maneuverability by deep striking in. The LotD were especially painful as they ran with Vulcan so they rerolled meltas that ignored my cover/ jinxing venom saves.

I'm looking forward to hearing more analysis of Coteaz' performance.

Interesting, how did you end up doing at the tourney? Yes, tactically I could see the hasstle of deep striking armies. The key there would be to spread out, hope he takes the bait and then use superior speed to focuss on the now stranded elements one at a time.

Ok so on to the tactical overview of my army for the game 1 of the series, I will be giving each unit a rating from A to F with + and - to denote value.

A - Essential to the army.
B - Did really well
C - Could have done better
E- This game was pretty useless
F - seriously considering using the points for something else

Ok.

Vect A - I let my opponent deploy, then siezen on him. Vect did his job. Took out the quaddgun before it was a problem. Then vect went on a rampage! Killing a maulerfiend, a unit of deamonettes, the plague herald and at the end there were 2 plaguebearers left. He was a boss this game!

Coteaz C - I did not need him for the re roll. But his powers, objugation mechanicum and smash proved usefull to hold a flank against the maulers. He almost blew one up with a str 9 ap 2 smash... But the deamon save prevented it. He then died a horrible death to a mauler in combat.

2 units of splinter cannon born in venoms - B + - they did well, but because of the speed of the deamon and chaos units they could not stay static to really make use of their heavy splinter cannons. Later in the game they were pivotal in getting linebreaker and assaulting the objectives that the cultists held. Their threat was also psychological, as my opponent HATES them so that was usefull as well.

I will group all the kabalites here. A They took objectives, snap shot into the helldrake, contested another objective, and 3 out of the 4 units survived. They did well.

The Three Ravagers - C - They could have done better... They missed a lot this game. They did help taking out some khorne dogs tho! And eventually snap shot the helldrake out of the sky. I was hoping they would take care of the maulers faster.

Overall the list synergizes really well. I can't wait to test it a second time.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Played Game 2 of the series today. Against a plain CSM list.

My first two games (LotD & Khan Biker list) were both very close & my third game against SM + GK was a tie with most of my army still alive & my opponent with two Space Marines holding one objective (yeah I know I suck).

I've been thinking of dropping Vect & adding just Coteaz, but I'll try the list tomorrow.

I feel dropping Vect would defeat the purpose.

Anyhow. I played Game 2 ! This was against Rob and a built on the fly army list.

Abaddon
3 termies, heavy flamer

10 chosen, max plasmaguns, champ with 2 gunslinging plasmapistols
Rhino, havoc

8 chosen, lots of close combat upgrades
Rhino, havoc

10 CSM unmarked, lascannon

Helldrake

Forgefiend

1500pts.

The mission was Killpoints as a secondary and emperors will as a primary.

The deployment? Dawn of war. Ill post a tactical review of the units. I knew I had to eliminate the forgefiend fast, and that unit on foot would feel the wrath of the venoms. I did take pics this game so ill see about adding them into the tactical overview of the game.

My opponent chose to go first.

Cheers!