Finecast Finished: GW to end Finecast Production Q2 2014

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**wildger**

You stlill end up paing premium price for an average product.

**Daston**

Well there you have it folks, if fw dies go plastic you'll get your plastic TH. It'll just have less detail and probably cost even more.

**Howard A Treesong**

I think it signifies that GW in the main really are a toy company now and not making the world's finest miniatures, at least on general sale. Plastic is good, but resin and metal produces higher quality for character figures. If you think plastic has greater potential for high quality detail you are wrong, also plastic still has limitations such as the undercut on pieces afforded by the mould design. Plastic is great for rank and file troops, but not so much for characters who serve as centrepieces for the army and tend to be valued by painters and collectors for their superior casting.

GW are pushing all their product that specifically requires adult skill, all their non-plastic, towards Forgeworld, who only cater for serious modellers not kids. GW stores will be fully plastic, meaning they can sell everything regardless of age or ability. It makes them more accessible to newcomers and the inexperienced, their target market with GW stores. They are a high turnover toy shop, not the worlds finest miniatures manufacturer.

It won't improve prices. Plastic moulds aren't cheap and character figures won't sell in huge volume. Also there's little incentive for GW to reduce prices because they only expect most customers to last a year or so. Also they said long ago that customers are now prepared to pay metal prices for plastic figures which is why they have taken to reducing figures in a box and increasing their price.

**Alex Kolodotschko**

I'm not 100% sure that I agree with all of that statement Howard.
Some of the plastic kits are so fiddly and complicated with so many options compared to the older metal/finecast versions.
Those were far more simple and user friendly.
Every time I open one of their new kit i'm boggled for about 1/2 an hour by the sprue layout and multitude of bits but maybe that's just because I care about doing a decent job?

**Pacific**

Think this bit is 100% correct though!

I think it signifies that GW in the main really are a toy company now and not making the world's finest miniatures, at least on general sale. Plastic is good, but resin and metal produces higher quality for character figures. If you think plastic has greater potential for high quality detail you are wrong, also plastic still has limitations such as the undercut on pieces afforded by the mould design. Plastic is great for rank and file troops, but not so much for characters who serve as centrepieces for the army and tend to be valued by painters and collectors for their superior casting.

**Alex Kolodotschko**

Agreed.
Although there was always something a bit off about including a beautifuly detailed FW, AOW or even GW figure in a unit of very bland rank and file troops.
The additional level of detail really accentuates how plain the other models are.
Now that GW's plastics are generally up to scratch a drop in character model quality could make armies hang better and look more cohesive.

I only bring this up as GW are really in the business of selling armies rather than single miniatures these days.

**Wayshuba**

I think it is easy to see why they are going this route for three reasons:

1.) Reason to have gamers replace 'older' finecast or metal models with plastic kits. Think about all the Eldar Aspect Warriors as an example.

2.) Very low cost of production versus price.

3.) Ability to raise price. Look at plastic SM Librarian at $30 US versus FC one at $16.00. Plastic costs about a third of what resin costs yet sells for almost twice what the plastic one does.

As for the steel mold investment, this is basically null now with the volume GW does in 40k in general. This move is plain and simple about increasing sales (by selling new versions of existing models) and improving profits.

Also, just a correction, GW did not saying they are going ALL plastics. They said they are doing it for "non-character" models. Generic characters (ala SM Commander, Captain and Librarian) will be plastic but it appears Special Characters will be Finecast (or maybe move to ForgeWorld).

**Sarigar**

It will be interesting to see how the Eldar fare. Most of their entire infantry size models are Finecast. Wave Serpents are not readily available and nearly every HQ choice are also Finecast.

**Alex Kolodotschko**

And as the final light of the last Spirit Stone dimmed for eternity the Eldar were no more.

Fixed.

**prowla**

Alex Kolodotschko wrote:
I really hope that this means that we get more HQ 'multibuild packs' in plastic.
Like the SM commander, Empire Wizards, High Elf Lord, Orc Warboss/banner, CSM termie Lord etc.
I'd be happy to spend £30-£50 on a set that included 3 to 5 Captain, Wizard, Hero, Pysker multibuild models for the same army.

Being able to buy all of the HQ options for an army, 'in a handy in-store box', is a very GW kind of thing to do.

Definitely sounds like a possible GW thing - justifying a high price by adding alternative bits. Dunno which would be faster for GW's production, though - multiple single-pose models or multi-part kits. Or maybe they are producing single-pose models first, then when the hype dies they start churning out 'new and improved' multipart kits. They have a funny way of making business decisions, so it's kinda hard to predict

**OneManNoodles**

gorgon wrote:
Well, ding dong and all of that.

Spoiler:

There goes my coffee.

Can't say I didn't see any of this coming.

How long until there will be "snap-fit" GW kits so you don't need glue and coloured plastic GW kits so no more paint? ... Then it's not so far until they are pose-able with things that shoot out from springs and the like.

As for people saying that GW should cast with resin properly, well it's not like they really listen to their customers? All they have seen is a drop in profits from it, so rather than fix the problem and learn, they ditch the whole thing. Just another example of the childish, short minded "Now!" culture that rules business and increasingly politics these days.

**scarletsquig**

^ Prepaints from GW would be an excellent idea.

No need to paint the figures means that you can comfortably buy more figures, the amount you can buy is not longer limited by the amount of time you have to paint them.

No idea why they haven't done it already as an alternative or supplement to their existing range. Just a few basic troop choices, maybe a small starter set (game-ready hq and 2 troops) in prepaint format could go a long way.

**Kanluwen**

Alex Kolodotschko wrote:
I'm not 100% sure that I agree with all of that statement Howard.
Some of the plastic kits are so fiddly and complicated with so many options compared to the older metal/finecast versions.
Those were far more simple and user friendly.
Every time I open one of their new kit i'm boggled for about 1/2 an hour by the sprue layout and multitude of bits but maybe that's just because I care about doing a decent job?

Something very interesting to note as well is that they are starting to design(and price) kits with things like magnetizing in mind. The new Dark Rider/Doomfire Warlock kit is a great example of this.

For those who have not gotten to see the kit in person, I'll explain and use this image to help:

The horses have the legs of the riders attached, along with the lower torso of the rider. Do you see the metallic kind of 'corset'? That is the terminus for what is the horses have attached.
The Dark Riders and Warlocks both have the upper torsos attaching to that point and the inside of their torso is actually a hollow space perfectly sized for a magnet or pin of some kind. The arms of the riders as well do not ever actually need to be hard attached to the reins, as the reins are attached to the horse barring the bit that the one arm is actually holding.

If I were someone who actually wanted to field Doomfire Warlocks instead of Dark Riders, I would just need a few well placed magnets and I would be set.

**MetalOxide**

I think it signifies that GW in the main really are a toy company now and not making the world's finest miniatures, at least on general sale. Plastic is good, but resin and metal produces higher quality for character figures. If you think plastic has greater potential for high quality detail you are wrong, also plastic still has limitations such as the undercut on pieces afforded by the mould design. Plastic is great for rank and file troops, but not so much for characters who serve as centrepieces for the army and tend to be valued by painters and collectors for their superior casting.

I disagree; whilst the actual sculpts of some of the recent plastic miniatures may be a bit goofy looking, all of them are technically superb, becoming more and more detailed in each release. The Chaos Space Marines in DV do not look like toys.

**Kilkrazy**

No-one complained about the crappy low detail models in Space Hulk 3rd Ed.

**cincydooley**

Someone should really tell Adam Poots about how terrible the quality of plastic is before be moves forward with Kingdom Death in hard plastic.

**nwns**

I think almost all of these threads are laughable, it's as though moaning is the pastime of choice

I prefer finecast to metal, I also remember the very first Citadel plastic figure (three orks in a blister, I made one with four arms after seeing an example in White Dwarf) and the new plastics are really good quality. The figures are pricey but I earn enough so don't really care...I think I may have to stop reading Dakka though and just look at the pictures from now on, every thread is either moaning or a flamewar

**Locrian**

The new plastic kits, such as the Sternguard, etc. look fantastic. No issues with quality detail there, IMO. I have forge world resin and mostly plastic converted characters sitting right next to each other, and the plastic ones certainly do not look like toys next to the resin figures. Some look a lot better. This thread is hilarious.

**Shadow Captain Edithae**

If GW uses this opportunity to actually drop their prices, I'll eat my laptop.

**Pacific**

cincydooley wrote:
Someone should really tell Adam Poots about how terrible the quality of plastic is before be moves forward with Kingdom Death in hard plastic.

I don't think anyone is saying plastic is 'terrible' Cincydooley, just that at the high end of detail/intricacy, it still falls short of what is obtainable through resin/metal.

If GW uses this opportunity to actually drop their prices, I'll eat my laptop.

I think it's a safe assumption to make that your laptop will remain un-eaten.

**Backfire**

MetalOxide wrote:

I disagree; whilst the actual sculpts of some of the recent plastic miniatures may be a bit goofy looking, all of them are technically superb, becoming more and more detailed in each release. The Chaos Space Marines in DV do not look like toys.

They have a lot of detail, but not all of it is good detail. And DV Space Marine characters (Company Master, Libby and Seraphicus) sure don't look special compared to equivalent metal/FC characters. Ditto for new plastic Space marine characters.

**EYEofTERROR**

Kilkrazy wrote:
No-one complained about the crappy low detail models in Space Hulk 3rd Ed.

Allow me; There is detail missing from nearly every terminator on the sprue. There are fine details that are 'muddy' or non existent on each model. Especially noticeable on the crux terminatus on the shoulder pads. While these are, IMO, the best looking terminators released to date, I feel that they would be much better cast in Metal or Forgeworld resin.

Games Workshop has a recent history of turning their backs on their loyal fan base to cater to fly by night interest in the hobby. It sickens me that so many people praise finecast as a decent alternative to metal or forgeworld resin. Finecast models just feel like a cheap imitation. It seems like chinese bootleg material. Not something that people of the Legendary Island Nation should be proud of producing.

**warboss**

EYEofTERROR wrote:
Kilkrazy wrote:
No-one complained about the crappy low detail models in Space Hulk 3rd Ed.

Allow me; There is detail missing from nearly every terminator on the sprue. There are fine details that are 'muddy' or non existent on each model. Especially noticeable on the crux terminatus on the shoulder pads. While these are, IMO, the best looking terminators released to date, I feel that they would be much better cast in Metal or Forgeworld resin.

Agreed. I really liked the Space Hulk terminators so much so that my deathwing army is almost entirely made up of them.

They're excellent PLASTIC kits... but they could have been more detailed on a per model basis if they had been multipart metal or resin. Despite them having some excellent detail on the parts you commonly see, they also have bland blobby undercuts on parts you don't often look at (like leg calves) which would never be there if they had been sculpted and produced in another medium. The space hulk terminators are excellently designed single posed plastic sprues that avoid most of the problems associated with plastics and hides fairly well the remaining unavoidable ones. Despite that praise, they still would have looked better sculpted in metal using traditional molds but they also never would have sold the set for $100.

**Cryptek of Awesome**

Glad to see Finecast out the door.

Plastic is fine for most things.

**timd**

Kilkrazy wrote:
Finecast models just feel like a cheap imitation. It seems like chinese bootleg material. Not something that people of the Legendary Island Nation should be proud of producing.

Especially when the Chinese bootleg kits are cast better than the GW Finecast and Forge World kits...

GW producing kits in resin (rather than metal) opened the floodgates for Chinese recasters.

T

**xruslanx**

Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
If GW uses this opportunity to actually drop their prices, I'll eat my laptop.

pretty sure that when those demon releases last year went from finecast to plastic, they went down in price. But then those new space marine plastic charecters went up in price. So it's anyone's guess.

**cammy**

weeble1000 wrote:
ClockworkZion wrote:
weeble1000 wrote:
ClockworkZion wrote:
I'm still of the mind that the claims of GW trying to get a buyout are still too far out there. Much less a British company selling themselves to an American toy company.

I'm chalking that up to wishful thinking of a higher degree than that of a plastic Thunderhawk.

I don't think many would call it "wishful thinking." I suspect that folks who actually like Games Workshop do not want to see it bought out by a big corporation, and the folks who don't like GW could give a crap who owned the company's assets.

You can't measure much in terms of actual behavior against the release of a plastic Thunderhawk, though there is some evidence in the release of big, splashy kits and whatnot. When it comes to rumors of a buyout there's plenty of evidence out there that lends credence to rumors. It is not simply a matter of rumors, though there are plenty of those and from decent sources regarding a buyout.

It is fair to say that at this point a buyout is still very speculative, but I think it is naive to call it "wishful thinking." Evidence that would support such an inference is out there and there is a lot of it. Such evidence however points to several different just as likely conclusions, in my opinion, making it speculative. It would be "wishful thinking" if there was no evidence to support the inference and/or lots of evidence that directly contradicts it, of which I have seen none.

You haven't seen the threads I have which contain posts like "I hope GW gets bought out by Hasbro/Lego/WotC/ect". It's wishful thinking by a number of people that's bleeding over to everyone else.

Wanting something to happen does not mean that predicting it is wishful thinking. I wish I had a billion dollars. I do not expect a billion dollars to materialize in my lap, and if it did, I like to think that I would be incredibly skeptical about it and assume that I might be suffering from sort of adult onset schizophrenia. I wish I did not feel hungry. I predict that as I am now eating lunch I will not feel hungry in half an hour. I wish that I get a good bonus this year. I predict that I will get a good bonus because I have worked hard this year, met goals, billed more hours over last year, and have received compliments from my employer. Wanting something to happen might bias one towards thinking it will happen, but that does not make deductive reasoning impossible.

For example, I think GW is getting bought out. If GW is getting bought out, I think it would probably be Hasbro. This does not mean I cannot say that such thinking is speculative. It is. But it is not wishful in the sense that a buyout is one possible scenario that seems to fit with the available data. I have not seen any evidence that suggests a buyout is an unreasonable inference to make. The fact that some folks wish a buyout was in the works is not evidence that contradicts the existence of a buyout.

Do you know something that makes inferring the existence of a buyout unreasonable? If you do I'd love to know. Until I see some I will continue to think that amongst the possible scenarios that fit available information, a buyout is the most likely. This particular opinion, that a buyout is the most likely scenario, is certainly the product of personal bias. I'd like to see a buyout happen, but that does not prevent me from A) recognizing that bias and B) thinking critically.

However if the picture is all doom and gloom why would Hasbro buy it out? Also I notice its primarily the american members of Dakka who are always saying buyouts are happening.

GW is a UK PLC company and as such there are differing rules that apply. Also as its a PLC it wouldnt be Gw's decision but the shareholders.

I think if it ever did happen we would see the demise of GW as we know it regardless of the company. I wouldn't be surprised is the assests were liquidised for cash and then use the background to licence out for more small cost quick profit ventures.

You have to ask yourself, why would Hasbro want to by GW, what would it gain, and would GW be the same? would they invest the money into the company?

**orc master**

I have to dissagree with no undercuts in plastic - though your no longer using 2 part molds anymore if you want that option - there are plenty of great examples in military model kits of complex upper and lower tank hulls in 1 piece - This of couse comes at a cost - and I for one am not sure I want to see the additional cost of that on already overprised (IMHO) GW kits

anyway, specialy for fantasy and it's horde units you will hardly notice all those superfine details. They only stand out on small units and heroes / characters - and even then only up close

Then again, give it an other couple of years and everyone will probably be printing their units and GW will sell you the files in the applestore that allow you to print X models with X gear for 5 times wat they charge now for injected plastic

**Kroothawk**

I think most of you are missing the point. It is not whether you like or dislike Finecast and/or metal.

If GW really discontinues Finecast and metal, look at this page to see what happens:
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/armySubUnitCats.jsp?catId=cat440271a&rootCatGameStyle=wh40k
Currently 41 different products, 4 of them plastic. Do you really think that GW will release 37 SM plastic kits to compensate the loss of Finecast and metal miniatures? Now have a look at Adepta Sororitas ...

GW plans the mother of all power-shrinking, reducing the product range by 50-70% with just 2-3 HQ choices per army left, almost none of them characters. Only chance that new plastic HQs will sell in enough numbers to make it economic.

A dream for bean counters, a nightmare for us. Enjoy the grim future of our hhhobby.

Anyway, here some quotes from faeit212:

Tim over at Faeit 212 wrote:GW plans his free capacities (through the end of Metal and Finecast) fill with the production of FW-Models.
At the moment FW do not plans with Plastic.

Anonymous source over at Faeit 212 wrote:To cut to the point the finecast changes that so many discusses and brings questions if the displeasure amongst some is the reason. It was just a middle ground for plans for indeed the prices in metal have gone up. some might not see it when comparing companies but the production amount GW have is enormous.

The changes however was well planned but... the mixture to make the material and the production didn't go in their favor. The molding process wasn't perfect, it worked, but not perfect.Tests was made all the time even if people don't believe it.

I hope it sheds some light into the discussion. That it wasn't a complete solution but the stepping stone.

Oh, and Space Hulk miniatures have a lot of nasty undercuts, esp. the genestealers. One is even missing an arm to fit into the mould.

**ClockworkZion**

Daston wrote:
Well there you have it folks, if fw dies go plastic you'll get your plastic TH. It'll just have less detail and probably cost even more.

Oh no, my rivets!

Seriounly, most of the "detail" on the kit is rivets and panellines.mguessnwhst plastic kits handle just fine.