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Hey all.

I'm considering using a unit or two in my white scars successor army. My list consists primarily of bikes, storm talons and tfcs. I'm thinking of a heavy flamer lss. Not sure on scouts weapons. The ability to infiltrate, scout, deep strike or outflank presents many options. If I was to go ccw would vet upgrade be worth it?

I could attempt to clear far out objectives or mop up depleted units. They're cheap and cheerful.

What's some ideas or tactics people have used? What loadouts? Etc

Cheers

"I could attempt to clear far out objectives or mop up depleted units. They're cheap and cheerful. " This is it in a nutshell.

They are fragile, so keep them away from the main battle.

Avoid the lure to put a MM on them. At BS 3 it will be underwhelming. If anything, just use a heavy flamer.

Blind is very nice on paper... I've not used it before so couldn't say for sure.

Because the Land Speeder Storm is open-topped, the Scouts can assault on the turn they disembark too, is that right?

Yeah, open topped vehicles are assault vehicles.

I like them. The scout move normally isn't useful though as I tend to reserve them. They work well as late-game hold/contest/line breaker gambits. Cheaper than grav bike squads. I go bolters btw.

Don't forget that the scouts have another subtle advantage that comes into play with White Scars - they can climb stairs

Keep a particular eye on objectives on the second floor or above (3rd floor for you Yanks) - these are ones that your bikes cannot get to, but your LSS scouts can.

Note that objectives on the first (second) floor of a building shouldn't be a problem - a bike on the ground is still within 3" of an objective on the level above.

There is a nice little ability the LSS scouts have. If you go HF LSS and CC/BP for the scouts you get a unit fairly good at removing small scoring units from their cover.

I just wish they had a rule to let the HB scout fire at full BS when the skimmer is moving. That would have been incredibly cool.

Yeah, I'm leaning towards heavy flamer lss with ccw bolt pistol scouts. I may aswell get the most out of the assault vehicle after all.

What about shotguns? Any takers?

Here is my basic setup when I play

khan w/moondraken
chapter master bike artificer T hammer shield eternal

command squad 4x grav guns, apoth

5x bikes, 2x grav guns, melta bombs
5x bikes, 2x grav guns, melta bombs
5x bikes, 2x grav guns, melta bombs
5x bikes, 2x melta gun, melta bombs
5x scouts, camo cloaks, land speeder storm, heavy flamer


3x bikes, 2x grav guns, melta bombs

stormtalon, skyhammer missles
thunderfire cannon

that's at 1500, 2k usually just add a land raider and cents, or drop pod sterns with a stalker and riffle dread.

The storms are very useful. They add a good distance scout move, or if I infiltrate the scouts can be a mobile blind/heavy flamer. You can leave them in reserve against armies you think have your number, as hopefully late game objective grabbers or just to avoid giving up first blood. Scouts are basically there for objectives/drive-bys so camo cloaks are good because you don't mind going to ground with a cheap unit. A solid addition to an army that can be out maneuvered by putting objectives high up.

Nice one Orock. So you just arm your scouts with bolters?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Btw that list looks over 1500 tbh.

Jamo wrote:
Nice one Orock. So you just arm your scouts with bolters?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Btw that list looks over 1500 tbh.

ill go back and add it up again
is it safe to post points costs now or still not allowed?


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Oh I copy pasted the speeder. Dident mean to do that. Should be minus a speeder and scouts




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You can probably drop the 3 man bike squad though, and add another clone speeder in there, gonna need another 12 points somewhere to do that though. Sacrifice the camo cloaks and you should be there.

Objectives have unlimited verticality....it could be on the 708th floor of a building and you can still hold or contest it from the ground floor.

But LSS scouts are still great.

 The Shrike wrote:
Objectives have unlimited verticality....it could be on the 708th floor of a building and you can still hold or contest it from the ground floor.

But LSS scouts are still great.

Really gonna need a citation on that, I was told bikes couldn't hold objectives on higher elevations because they cant climb to hold them.

Anyway, this is the list I am going to use next time to try out.first part is 1495, second is 1998

Khan
moondraken

Chapter master
artificer armor, shield eternal, thunder hammer, bike

command squad x5
4x grav guns, apothecary

5x bikes
2x grav guns, meltabomb

5x bikes
2x grav guns, meltabomb

5x bikes
2x grav guns, meltabomb

5x bikes
2x grav guns, meltabomb

5x scouts
land speeder storm, heavy flamer, bolters for squad

stormtalon
skyhammer missles

thunderfire cannon

and for the extra 500 something like

10x sternguard
combat squad. squad a 3 combi meltas, squad b 2x heavy flamers

drop pod for sternguard

5x scouts
land speeder storm, heavy flamer, bolters for squad

3x bikes
2x meltaguns, meltabomb

Very similar to what I'm looking at Orick, except I take outflanking grav cents in place of the cm. plus I drop 1 bike squad for more toys.

Khan 150

3x bikes 5 man 2 grav combi grav
2x lss heavy flamer 5 scouts (unsure of loadout yet)

3 grav cents

2 stormtalon skyhammer

2 tfc

1495


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Very similar to what I'm looking at Orick, except I take outflanking grav cents in place of the cm. plus I drop 1 bike squad for more toys.

Khan 150

3x bikes 5 man 2 grav combi grav
2x lss heavy flamer 5 scouts (unsure of loadout yet)

3 grav cents

2 stormtalon skyhammer

2 tfc

1495


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Would I be better off with melta bombs over combi grav? Why?

Play any tournament in the US. ANY. Objectives have unlimited verticality. I don't have my rulebook on me, I'm out of town, but no major tournament would rule it any different.

I have been experimenting with Storms now that their dedicated and while my initial go to thought was with the heavy flamer, after a couple of play tests, I have moved back toward the heavy bolter. This is primary because i run my scouts ccw and run a vet sgt with a power maul and in most situations I am looking to get them into a charge on some backfield unit.(devs or lootas in my meta) The way you have to disembark to assault severely limits the use of you flamer, as you move 6 disembark 6 and then charge, you wont be able to use it in most situations the same turn you want your scouts to charge. In these situations I prefer the heavy bolter, because it lets me get a few decent his in before your scouts get in the there, and it also lets you shoot while your storms are moving into a position. That being said the cerebus launcher is money! the fact that its strength 2 made me initially roll me eyes until i realized that blind is applied to any unit that is hit not wounded, the fact that it may occasionally net a kill or 2 is just a bonus. Mostly because of the blind rule my 5 man squad of CCW scouts managed to clear out a 10 man squad of necron immortals last game ( he still rolled bad as well). That being said if your going CCW scouts get a vet sgt and a power weapon to taste ( i like Mauls for their utility)

Very good point you raise Treavous. I hadn't considered the implications of heavy flamer use and charging. It may be that it's out of range, yet my scouts would be in range to charge. Plus it could get complicated with having them in the way of the template. I guess I'll magnetize anyway, but yeah, this is something to consider.

How many storms do you run, and in what sized lists?

 The Shrike wrote:
Play any tournament in the US. ANY. Objectives have unlimited verticality. I don't have my rulebook on me, I'm out of town, but no major tournament would rule it any different.

Done that. You have to be within 3" of an objective. Which means either the floor its on or directly under/over it.

Jamo wrote:
Very similar to what I'm looking at Orick, except I take outflanking grav cents in place of the cm. plus I drop 1 bike squad for more toys.

Khan 150

3x bikes 5 man 2 grav combi grav
2x lss heavy flamer 5 scouts (unsure of loadout yet)

3 grav cents

2 stormtalon skyhammer

2 tfc

1495


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Very similar to what I'm looking at Orick, except I take outflanking grav cents in place of the cm. plus I drop 1 bike squad for more toys.

Khan 150

3x bikes 5 man 2 grav combi grav
2x lss heavy flamer 5 scouts (unsure of loadout yet)

3 grav cents

2 stormtalon skyhammer

2 tfc

1495


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Would I be better off with melta bombs over combi grav? Why?

Despite cramming in so much grav, I found anyone using more than a token vehicle hard to deal with, and HoW wasn't always a fix all. Even grav cents don't guarantee a land raider destroyed. 15 shots, 10 hits, even with rerolls that doesn't guarantee the three you need. That's preference though. Drop the bombs, switch 2 grav guns for melta, and it gives you 3 combo gravs

Yeah that's how I read it Fragile. One of the main benefits of taking scouts in a bike list is their ability to climb floors. The storm is there for mobility. It can keep up with the bikes or stay in reserve.

Would an assault cannon be worth the points? It brings versatility to the unit.


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@ Orock. Yeah, I'll admit I've included the grav cents coz I've painted and converted them up real nice. But believe me , I can see the sense in dropping them for another bike squad and something else. Not sure yet.

@Jamo

Something to note, the landspeeder storm model only come with the heavy bolter option, so any other weapon is a conversion for you.

That being said I have been rolling 3 @ 1000 points the trick is to take 10 man squads, and give half snipers and cloaks and the other half ccws combat squad the ccws in the LSS. I also run a 10 man blob of snipers scouts for home objective.

from my experiments with LSS the melta and assault cannon are to spendy to give to a BS3 model that is that fragile. That being said, because I run so many scouts, I roll with Iron hands tactics and laughably have had It will not die keep a storm or two alive way longer then it should have. Also 6+ Fnp on scouts has saved allot more of them then it should.

The options for storms are crazy though, as you can outflank or deepstrike, there is potential for having a storm with a melta, and a combi melta scout sgt deepstrike or outflank for hunting that pesky artillery or unsuspecting tank. Or heavy flamer storm with combi flamer sgt. with some boltguns to deepstrike next to something and bolter/ flame it up