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Hey mates. With 6th edition out for awhile now, a friend of mine who has been interested but hesitant to play has finally dived in and he is interested in play GK's, as not only does he love the models, but he also loves the fluff of these guys slaughtering daemons and just owning Chaos on a daily basis. That being said, I am not sure how effect the GK's are in this current edition, so basically to help him out, just need some tactical knowledge on how the GK's are currently fairing in this edition, particularly which army lists work the best in this edition and why. He is liking the idea of running the Castellan Crowe list with a bunch of purifiers or the Interceptor Spam list, but I'm not sure if they are worth running in this edition. Basically need all the knowledge, advice, and tactics that make GK's worth it in this edition and thanks for all of the help!

With avoidance of certain common cheese lists of old, that don't work anymore, GK do just fine.

Crowe with tons of purifiers, something like 60 (which is possible, and still contains needed stuff) is very good, though you can lower the count and add in a few landraider transports, or stormravens.

In general, the GK goal right now is to reach melee by any means necessary. Using shunting dreadknights and deep striking terminators, plus servo skulls or whatever for less scatter is a very valid move.

Vindcare assassins, and generally all the assassins except the anti-psy one are excellent currently.

The librarian is probably one of the best things GK have in terms of HQ. His psy powers are very hard to stop and very deadly.

It's tough to play an elite army currently, but with speed and forcing melee combat, GK will win out against most everything, because everyone seems to be avoiding melee for some reason, and that's not helping them.

 juraigamer wrote:
With avoidance of certain common cheese lists of old, that don't work anymore, GK do just fine.

Crowe with tons of purifiers, something like 60 (which is possible, and still contains needed stuff) is very good, though you can lower the count and add in a few landraider transports, or stormravens.

In general, the GK goal right now is to reach melee by any means necessary. Using shunting dreadknights and deep striking terminators, plus servo skulls or whatever for less scatter is a very valid move.

Vindcare assassins, and generally all the assassins except the anti-psy one are excellent currently.

The librarian is probably one of the best things GK have in terms of HQ. His psy powers are very hard to stop and very deadly.

It's tough to play an elite army currently, but with speed and forcing melee combat, GK will win out against most everything, because everyone seems to be avoiding melee for some reason, and that's not helping them.

I personally think a Grand Master is necessary...barring Coteaz...due to his ability to give the army certain rules for specific missions. But yes, the Librarian is without a doubt awesome. Actually the entire GK HQ section is awesome. I can't think of one I extremely hate. Valeria's pts are high but even she can be worth it.

And I just played Stern...i don't know how he fares in general but I just ran him solo into 20 khorne dogs and wrecked their faces.

Hmm yes a grand master using grand strat to help by scout moving a land raider with a deadly payload does work well.

Then again, a grand master taking an orbital strike and then mastercrafting it is great as well. Good for backfield support, something GK don't really have.

 juraigamer wrote:
Hmm yes a grand master using grand strat to help by scout moving a land raider with a deadly payload does work well.

Well, I'd use him for making DK or Interceptor squad scoring in certain scenarios instead, but scout can be useful too. Except that you can bet that many imperial armies will be bringing Divination inquisitor with servo-skulls on short order, making scout and infiltrate lot worse than they used to be.

 juraigamer wrote:
Then again, a grand master taking an orbital strike and then mastercrafting it is great as well. Good for backfield support, something GK don't really have.

Actually it is not. First, OSR cannot be Master-Crafted as per FAQ. Second, Relentless does not override the "model cannot move in previous movement phase", meaning that you really need to have the GM sit tight if you want to fire the OSR.
Now, having access to proper OSR like new C:SM would be useful.

Luide wrote:

 juraigamer wrote:
Hmm yes a grand master using grand strat to help by scout moving a land raider with a deadly payload does work well.

Well, I'd use him for making DK or Interceptor squad scoring in certain scenarios instead, but scout can be useful too. Except that you can bet that many imperial armies will be bringing Divination inquisitor with servo-skulls on short order, making scout and infiltrate lot worse than they used to be.

 juraigamer wrote:
Then again, a grand master taking an orbital strike and then mastercrafting it is great as well. Good for backfield support, something GK don't really have.

Actually it is not. First, OSR cannot be Master-Crafted as per FAQ. Second, Relentless does not override the "model cannot move in previous movement phase", meaning that you really need to have the GM sit tight if you want to fire the OSR.
Now, having access to proper OSR like new C:SM would be useful.

Didn't Karamazov get FAQ'd to be able to move and fire his though? I could easily be wrong.

Grey Knights are not an easy win, and barring certain builds will do poorly against hyper-competitive Eldar and Tau. However, they can hold their own quite nicely, remember that for every TauDar list there's a Blood Angel, Tyranid, and Ork player. The key to using them, like any army in 6th, is to take advantage of their special rules and synergize your list as best you can. Playing with a competitive mindset helps too.

 greyknight12 wrote:
Playing with a competitive mindset helps too.

^+1

I became a "matured player" because I started this game with the Daemonhunters "Codex." Treat every Grey Knight's life like your life depends on it and you can do great things. GKs are much less expendable than most other MEQ.

I have found that shunt lists to be very good lately since they get all your nasty incinerators in range t1 and can follow up with assaults t2

Just don't run it as a strict elite force, especially against Eldar also taking a minimum to up to two dreadknights is always good and always give them that jump pack to have them move 12"yes it is like a 70 or 75 point upgrade but worth it, also grey knights are the only codex where dreadnoughts are worth taking since they get that psy bolt ammunition upgrade.

Taking an inquisitor with his retinue squad is cool to.

Just don't take 3 terminator squads and 2 dreadnoughts and a vindicare assassin and say here is my 1500 list :p

Dat Guy wrote:
Just don't run it as a strict elite force, especially against Eldar also taking a minimum to up to two dreadknights is always good and always give them that jump pack to have them move 12"yes it is like a 70 or 75 point upgrade but worth it, also grey knights are the only codex where dreadnoughts are worth taking since they get that psy bolt ammunition upgrade.

Taking an inquisitor with his retinue squad is cool to.

Just don't take 3 terminator squads and 2 dreadnoughts and a vindicare assassin and say here is my 1500 list :p

Personally I say the max is 20 Terminators...stock Terminators (With all of the Force Multipliers in GKs you really don't need to touch Paladins)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
...But I have 40 and run it on occasion when I feel like blowing my opponent away.

Sorry ignore this post. (why doesn't this forum have a delete post option?)

Yeah totally hit wrong button on my smart phone when I try to scroll a button sometimes gets clicked.

Yea paladins were really only good back when the wound allocation thing was around.

So in other words Grey Knights are only worth taking if you run them as a Inquisitor Henchman army now and not the power armor version? Thats the impression Im getting from you guys but I could be wrong lol.

Yeah, power armor in general kinda stinks now. If you can avoid it, and have other effective options, I would use them.

I made a thread awhile back with this same topic, the general thoughts were they are still good, but not really cheesy. Unless you spam razorbacks or acolytes apparently, hope this helped!

I still think draigo and paladins is one of the top gk builds along with a shunt list or henchman spam list. Its just all about what you take to support the death star

 tuiman wrote:
I still think draigo and paladins is one of the top gk builds along with a shunt list or henchman spam list. Its just all about what you take to support the death star

I can agree to an extent. Recently tested out a game with the Draigowing unit, however for there Grand Strategy I gave the unit the scout ability, and I was able to deploy pretty close to my opponents battle-line (was playing Tau w/Riptide spam). Needless to say they soaked a lot of fire, however while he was so worried about them, he forgot about my Dreadknights and other units, who just annihilated the Tau Pathfinders and all of his troops, and I managed to pull out a solid win again one of the more nasty Tau lists out there (this is a way to beat a Tau Riptide spam list fyi).

Thursday I will be facing an opponent in a 1850 point battle who fields both mordrek and draigo. As GK players how could you see such an army lose?

 Barnie25 wrote:
Thursday I will be facing an opponent in a 1850 point battle who fields both mordrek and draigo. As GK players how could you see such an army lose?

What army will you be running?

 Barnie25 wrote:
Thursday I will be facing an opponent in a 1850 point battle who fields both mordrek and draigo. As GK players how could you see such an army lose?

Still a newbie, however if he is running Mordek and Draigo, is he running both Paladins and Terminators? Basically he will have a low model count if that is the case, however that doesn't tell me much as I don't know what his current list is. Draigowing is not as useful as it once was, however I have seen it perform pretty darn well against some opponents, as many people focus on it right off the bat, giving your other units time to address your opponents army, Mordak is pretty good, however his Ghost Terminators lack all the special weapons that Terminators usually get, and another big thing is that you can only take 5x of them which is a shame.

Personally I wanted the GK's to get a character that could make Interceptors troops, but of course I'm sure many people would have a beef with that but it would be an army to address all of the gunline, Aegis Defense Line armies out there and actually give the op Tau an army to freak out about .

I will be running Dark Angels with Imperial Guard allies. My tactic is to get a 45 man guard blob with a 4+ invulnerable save thanks to Azrael and then 45 Marines with the Banner of Devastation and a PFG for immense Dakka. Both with heavy waepons. I can unleash more then 120 bolter shots and 90 lasshots per turn. He is bound to fail some saves. The rest will be a Leman Russ Demolisher for a nice pie plate of termi death and quite possibly a Land Raider Crusader with Deathwing Knights. Would this much dakka help me?

 Barnie25 wrote:
I will be running Dark Angels with Imperial Guard allies. My tactic is to get a 45 man guard blob with a 4+ invulnerable save thanks to Azrael and then 45 Marines with the Banner of Devastation and a PFG for immense Dakka. Both with heavy waepons. I can unleash more then 120 bolter shots and 90 lasshots per turn. He is bound to fail some saves. The rest will be a Leman Russ Demolisher for a nice pie plate of termi death and quite possibly a Land Raider Crusader with Deathwing Knights. Would this much dakka help me?

Looks pretty solid for the most part. However I was asking what his list is. Sorry for the confusion lol.

He will run Mordrek Draigo, Paladins, termis and probably a dreadnought.

Please keep the advice coming guys. Currently what I have in my possession to get my army started is:

* Draigo Model

*Coteaz

*10x Terminators/Paladins (3x Demon Hammer, SB, 2x Psycannon, Halberd, 4x Halberd, 1x Banner, SB. Whole unit always takes psybolt ammo.

*2x Stormraven Gunships w/Multi-Melta, Assault Cannon, Hurricane Bolters, Psybolt Ammo.

Currently am boroing some other stuff to rpresent while I try to decide what I want to do but not a bad start so far in my opinion.

You totally want to get a dreadknight, also get models for the henchmen squad and two razorbacks (you can use the same model as a rhino). Jokaero weapon masters are sweet inside a rhino.

 Barnie25 wrote:
I will be running Dark Angels with Imperial Guard allies. My tactic is to get a 45 man guard blob with a 4+ invulnerable save thanks to Azrael and then 45 Marines with the Banner of Devastation and a PFG for immense Dakka. Both with heavy waepons. I can unleash more then 120 bolter shots and 90 lasshots per turn. He is bound to fail some saves. The rest will be a Leman Russ Demolisher for a nice pie plate of termi death and quite possibly a Land Raider Crusader with Deathwing Knights. Would this much dakka help me?

Your army should matchup extremely well against a Terminator/Paladin list.

The ability to force so many saves so quickly should net you a pretty clean win.

Although many people have made similiar threads I find no harm in repeating myself

If I were to define GK at this very moment in one word it would be...
Elite.

By elite what I mean is that... just like the the blood angles players that are still playing their codex and the Black Templar players before they finally got an "update"
in the Ultramarine's codex.... they are only being played right now by the hardcore veterans who who are pretty diehards. It is no longer field GK and your chances of winning go up like 30% such as in 5th edition because we could teleport everywhere... shoot everything up with str 5 bolters and str 7 rending psycannons... assualt terminator squads, rip them to pieces... and overall just own everyone and everything that came up against us. Now it takes serious...serious... strategy. It takes really knowing the rules of what you can and cannot do inorder to gain the best performance out of them. As everything now has taken a turn for ap2/3 fire power and massed dice rolling... there isn't much survivability in taking up power or terminator armored Armies (MEQ) You really need to know how to mitigate losses by hiding units behind blocking area of terrain, using rhinos to screen your units....using landraiders to screen units and provide a base of operations... using any cheap means to get units on the field that can cap.... and also possibly considering taking up allies to help in key areas where grey knights are typically not strong such as long ranged fire power or psychic protection or bodies all together.

You want to take up a measure of stance between
Quality vs Quantity.
Each has their perks but as others have been saying; shunt list as well as some pallidon list with allies have been doing pretty well.

As a rule of thumb for me in this edition, which I'm sure some will not agree with me is that, anywhere between
20-30 marines whether it power armored or terminators/palis, or a combination of the both have been laying out as a nice number to try and reach.
then you want to fill in the rest with vehicles, MC's, or cheap allied contingent to pick up as many filler bodies as possible(that come to have a roll in your army of course) dependent on what you army will be lacking from the direction you are heading with your list.

After you have all that settled it's really just learning how to go about playing to the objectives generally by either stalling your opponent or just throwing so much stuff at them that they can't respond to cheap objective capping units like (henchmen, soladins, eldar jetbikes, strikes etc. )

GK are a tough army to play but if you can come to grips with losing a number of games inorder to learn how to play them you will really come to appreciate the games you do win. In addition many of the players that are great Generals have played armies such as GK, when they are somewhat underpowered because these armies make you a critical thinker, because only through sheer strategy will you win in most cases