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So wanted this to be "Obama's racy and sexy education secretary"...

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
So wanted this to be "Obama's racy and sexy education secretary"...

First few times I read the title before I opened the thread were read as 'racist and sexy secretary', and I imagined a thread where people where weighing the pros and cons and coming to a conclusion of whether or not she/he was good looking enough to make up for the racism.

 cincydooley wrote:
Certainly. But that's not what more than a few people here have said. We've read at least two people say that racism against whites is more acceptable than racism against minorities, which is shocking to me.

All racism is bad. Minorities certainly are affected by it more often than the white suburban soccer mom, but that doesn't make it "okay" when she is subjected to it, which is what some folks in this thread seem to be saying.

I don't believe that's what was said. Those posters are welcome to come in and clarify, but I didn't read it as 'more acceptable', and 'something that's a lot less likely to get me to care'.

But then I think this thread is falling in to the old trap of moralising about racism... I don't know if that's the word, but there's this tendency to make racism about certain magic words that cannot be said, and shouting at people who dare utter those words. I think of the example of the business manager who would never say the n-word, and would be outraged at anyone who ever did... but when he interviews a young black guy who is otherwise very well qualified for a position, he finds his manner a little too casual given his skin colour, and thinks he might bother some of his older patrons and so passes on the guy.

The way this story has been treated is just like that. People are making some weird internet drama over this guy describing people as white, but spending no time either looking at the context in which it was said (it was effectively used in place of middle class... and if there's anything to be bothered about here it's that), or how this works in the context of the real world - no-one's life is materially impacted by him saying white, in the scheme of racial issues this just doesn't register.


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 Bromsy wrote:
The poor?

Fair point, the poor suffer everything more than the rest. Which is kind of why they're poor I guess.

Interesting to see how MLK came to see the issue of poverty, that he slowly came to see class and not race as the great issue. Smart guy, that one.

 Cheesecat wrote:

My point isn't that racism isn't bad my point it is that white people on average are not as effected as negatively as other races

Given that white people tend to live in countries where they make up the majority I should hope so as it would mean a huge amount of racism on the part of other races otherwise. As it is, averages don't do much for the white guy who's just had his head kicked in by a gang of black people simply because he was white. Please consider that the victims are not part of some monolithic cultural block, they get no more support because they're white than a victim of any other race.

In regards common core, so long as the standards are maintained or improved, that is what should matter. Examples of where these schools have fallen down would also help in understanding what the problem is. Are they failing to teach technical and core subjects to an acceptable degree, or are they failing on some socially related subject.

 motyak wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
So wanted this to be "Obama's racy and sexy education secretary"...

First few times I read the title before I opened the thread were read as 'racist and sexy secretary', and I imagined a thread where people where weighing the pros and cons and coming to a conclusion of whether or not she/he was good looking enough to make up for the racism.

Like that Greek triple jumper who got expelled from the Olympics?

 Breotan wrote:

 motyak wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
So wanted this to be "Obama's racy and sexy education secretary"...

First few times I read the title before I opened the thread were read as 'racist and sexy secretary', and I imagined a thread where people where weighing the pros and cons and coming to a conclusion of whether or not she/he was good looking enough to make up for the racism.

Like that Greek triple jumper who got expelled from the Olympics?

You can't say that without supplying a picture for the debate...

 motyak wrote:

 Breotan wrote:

 motyak wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
So wanted this to be "Obama's racy and sexy education secretary"...

First few times I read the title before I opened the thread were read as 'racist and sexy secretary', and I imagined a thread where people where weighing the pros and cons and coming to a conclusion of whether or not she/he was good looking enough to make up for the racism.

Like that Greek triple jumper who got expelled from the Olympics?

You can't say that without supplying a picture for the debate...

Done.

Greek triple jumper Voula Papachristou wrote:With so many Africans in Greece… At least the West Nile mosquitoes will eat home made food!!!

 Monster Rain wrote:
I was hoping I'd see some hypocritical social justice warriors in this thread. I wasn't disappointed.

No need to be redundant.

Manchu wrote:

Relapse wrote:
totaly justify that guy pretending he was black

 Monster Rain wrote:
hypocritical social justice warriors

It's that old who's on first bit.

We both know I'm right.


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 Seaward wrote:

 Monster Rain wrote:
I was hoping I'd see some hypocritical social justice warriors in this thread. I wasn't disappointed.

No need to be redundant.

At least I don't have to go to tumblr to have a lol at them anymore.

Dakka is officially one-stop internet shopping.

 Cheesecat wrote:
My ability to feel sorry for white people who feel they're being persecuted due to their race is close to zero, this article is a non-issue to me.

Have a snack:

That image is deeply offensive.

 Ouze wrote:
That image is deeply offensive.

Yeah! I'm Caucasian American, not white, also lactose intolerant!

Dairy doesn't care about your feelings.

 d-usa wrote:
Dairy doesn't care about your feelings.

That stinking bishop!

Racist or not, I have to say, Arne Duncan's quote was really snide and condescending. How the heck did he expect people to respond to it?

~Tim?

 djones520 wrote:

 Cheesecat wrote:
My ability to feel sorry for white people who feel they're being persecuted due to their race is close to zero, this article is a non-issue to me.

People like you are disgusting.

Racism is racism, period. It doesn't matter what color you are. As soon as everyone can accept that, the quicker it will dissapear.

Lets be mellow now, Cheesecat is a pasty Canadian without benefit of queso, its not his fault.

 Monster Rain wrote:
I was hoping I'd see some hypocritical social justice warriors in this thread. I wasn't disappointed.

What's hypocritical about recognizing there's different levels of severity when it come to racism?

First of all, I'm not impressed with Mr Duncan and his top-down approach to education. It's just more of the same failed Bush Education policies in a different wrapper.

That said, the comment wasn't that extreme. "White Suburban Mom's". aka "Soccer Moms" is a farily common way of grouping a certain affluent section of the population. He's expressing surpise that those folks are arguing against the raising of education standards.

For all we know, maybe a fair amount pushback is coming from white suburban moms. Why would it be racist to say so?
The only possible offense here is being somewhat condescending with the:
"all of a sudden -- their child isn't as brilliant as they thought they were and their school isn't quite as good as they thought they were, and that's pretty scary,"
line which assumes that these moms don't have a proper perspective on how raising standards will affect thier children.

Condescending, perhaps, but unless someone has proof that he hasn't gotten pushback from White Suburban Moms, it's hardly an open and shut case of racism.

Separately,
As for the racist issue that folks are going back and forth about, I will only say that two things are true.
1) All racism is Morally wrong.
2) In the USA, the Practical effects of Racism are more severe for Minorities than for White Americans.

Didn't Sarah Palin quantify herself as a hockey mom?

 Alfndrate wrote:
Didn't Sarah Palin quantify herself as a hockey mom?

Yeah... more aptly the "momma grizzly".

I see these threads and want to participate, but I have no idea what is going on :(

yea I don't see any problem with a secretary, a government employee, publicly insulting a portion of the American public based on their gender and where they live. Anyone who has a problem with that will next start whining to me about those people again.

And why are we still talking about politics and race when we could be posting pictures of other hottie racist athletes from countries around the world? It boggles my mind.

 Cheesecat wrote:
My ability to feel sorry for people who feel they're being persecuted due to their race is close to zero, this article is a non-issue to me.

FIFY


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 Cheesecat wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:
So some racism is okay. Got it.

It's bad in general just some is worse than others.

right,

its like how when someone you dont care about had racist comments made about them, that isnt too bad,

but when its someone you DO care about, then its bad.

 easysauce wrote:

 Cheesecat wrote:
My ability to feel sorry for people who feel they're being persecuted due to their race is close to zero, this article is a non-issue to me.

FIFY

No, that doesn't make any sense as my original distinction of using the word "white" was very deliberate as the racial issues we face are usually quite minor (at least in Canada and USA) compared to other races.


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 easysauce wrote:

 Cheesecat wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:
So some racism is okay. Got it.

It's bad in general just some is worse than others.

right,

its like how when someone you dont care about had racist comments made about them, that isnt too bad,

but when its someone you DO care about, then its bad.

No, I don't like people making racist comments in general, but I'm not naive enough to think that calling a white person "Cracker" is anywhere as bad as say the Canadian government's practices on aboriginals.

 Cheesecat wrote:
My ability to feel sorry for white people who feel they're being persecuted due to their race is close to zero, this article is a non-issue to me.

In this age of "racial sensitivity" white people don't socially have the ability to call any disagreement with them racism. Which is racism in more than one instance here.

 Eilif wrote:
First of all, I'm not impressed with Mr Duncan and his top-down approach to education. It's just more of the same failed Bush Education policies in a different wrapper.

That said, the comment wasn't that extreme. "White Suburban Mom's". aka "Soccer Moms" is a farily common way of grouping a certain affluent section of the population. He's expressing surpise that those folks are arguing against the raising of education standards.

For all we know, maybe a fair amount pushback is coming from white suburban moms. Why would it be racist to say so?
The only possible offense here is being somewhat condescending with the:
"all of a sudden -- their child isn't as brilliant as they thought they were and their school isn't quite as good as they thought they were, and that's pretty scary,"
line which assumes that these moms don't have a proper perspective on how raising standards will affect thier children.

Condescending, perhaps, but unless someone has proof that he hasn't gotten pushback from White Suburban Moms, it's hardly an open and shut case of racism.

Separately,
As for the racist issue that folks are going back and forth about, I will only say that two things are true.
1) All racism is Morally wrong.
2) In the USA, the Practical effects of Racism are more severe for Minorities than for White Americans.

That pretty much nails the whole thing down perfectly. Brilliant post.


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 ThePrimordial wrote:
In this age of "racial sensitivity" white people don't socially have the ability to call any disagreement with them racism. Which is racism in more than one instance here.

The desperate need for people who suffer little or no disadvantage to believe that are at least as hard done by as the genuinely disadvantaged is incredible.

I have to strongly disagree with you, Sebster. It is inexcusable for the government to marginalize and blow off with such disrespect any portion of it's society.
Maybe it's just me talking as a citizen of this country with a belief that all people in it should be accorded dignity and respect without being steryotyped in the fashion that happened.
If he had said the same thing about black people that oppose this curriculum, he would have had a pink slip on his desk within the hour. By saying what he did, aside from being sexist and racist, he put forward the idea the only people that oppose core curriculum are white suburban women, which is not true.
I wonder how many of these women that were disrespected, as well as those who oppose the curriculum will vote Democrat in the mid terms now that they see how well they are being represented?

 sebster wrote:

 Eilif wrote:
First of all, I'm not impressed with Mr Duncan and his top-down approach to education. It's just more of the same failed Bush Education policies in a different wrapper.

That said, the comment wasn't that extreme. "White Suburban Mom's". aka "Soccer Moms" is a farily common way of grouping a certain affluent section of the population. He's expressing surpise that those folks are arguing against the raising of education standards.

For all we know, maybe a fair amount pushback is coming from white suburban moms. Why would it be racist to say so?
The only possible offense here is being somewhat condescending with the:
"all of a sudden -- their child isn't as brilliant as they thought they were and their school isn't quite as good as they thought they were, and that's pretty scary,"
line which assumes that these moms don't have a proper perspective on how raising standards will affect thier children.

Condescending, perhaps, but unless someone has proof that he hasn't gotten pushback from White Suburban Moms, it's hardly an open and shut case of racism.

Separately,
As for the racist issue that folks are going back and forth about, I will only say that two things are true.
1) All racism is Morally wrong.
2) In the USA, the Practical effects of Racism are more severe for Minorities than for White Americans.

That pretty much nails the whole thing down perfectly. Brilliant post.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ThePrimordial wrote:
In this age of "racial sensitivity" white people don't socially have the ability to call any disagreement with them racism. Which is racism in more than one instance here.

The desperate need for people who suffer little or no disadvantage to believe that are at least as hard done by as the genuinely disadvantaged is incredible.

Someone missed an underlying point.
Race in America has nothing to do with how well off you are.
There are no apartments within a hundred miles of where I went to school, where I moved to , and where my daughter goes to school and there is an equal race distribution.
Someone who's black isn't disadvantaged because he's black. He might not try, he might not be intelligent, or athletic. These are actual disadvantages.The same goes for white people.
Racial sensitivity is a ouroboros (self destructive) concept because it treats people with sympathy because of their race, but this is still technically racism. Because Racism is treating someone's race like a part of what defines them or giving it any credence or importance at all. That's the definition.
I have loaded white friends and loaded black friends, and comments are only made about race jokingly. Why? It doesn't matter!!! All of these men tried hard to distinguish themselves from their peers by grades, perseverance, and planning and received payment for it.
In conclusion stop fighting a battle that has not existed for a good 10-15 years, because in America, race doesn't matter. Except Muslims. Ahhhhhh America.......

>_>

I've been to Houston, there are most definitely apartments within a hundred miles of Houston...