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2013/11/22 03:57:46
Subject: Obama's racist and sexist education secretary
Relapse wrote: I have to strongly disagree with you, Sebster. It is inexcusable for the government to marginalize and blow off with such disrespect any portion of it's society.
It was a crass and needless comment, and should not have been said, for sure.
But focusing in on the word 'white' and pretending that therefore white people were marginalised and hard done by is simply nonsense. Read the comment - he's talking about middle class people. The only racism in the comment is the implication that white = middle class.
But of course that's been missed, and instead we're watching lots of concern and worry about how white people have been so hard done by.
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
2013/11/22 03:58:37
Subject: Obama's racist and sexist education secretary
I've been to Houston, there are most definitely apartments within a hundred miles of Houston...
I currently live in Walden. literally speaking I mean 45-50 miles.
Finally found my quote from a gym buddy born and raised in South Korea:
"It is the soldier, not the reporter who has given us the freedom of the press.
"It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us the freedom of speech.
"It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who gives us the freedom to demonstrate.
"It is the soldier who salutes the flag, who serves beneath the flag, and whose coffin is draped by the flag, who allows the protester to burn the flag."
2013/11/22 04:01:17
Subject: Re:Obama's racist and sexist education secretary
ThePrimordial wrote: Someone missed an underlying point.
Race in America has nothing to do with how well off you are.
There is a massive difference in average earnings for black and white households.
Someone who's black isn't disadvantaged because he's black. He might not try, he might not be intelligent, or athletic. These are actual disadvantages.The same goes for white people.
Except, as mentioned above, there is a massive difference in earnings between black and white households, with black households earning on average 2/3 of what white households earn. Now, either black people have some kind of inherent disadvantage in intelligence or athleticism or laziness, or there remains a deeper problem.
Because Racism is treating someone's race like a part of what defines them or giving it any credence or importance at all. That's the definition.
Nonsense. You can belong to a culture, and people can recognise that culture without it being in any discriminatory. Just the other night I was watching a show about end of life care, and a Chinese lady was talking about how she decided what she would and wouldn't tell her father who was dying, because in her culture at that point they take responsibility. Recognising that basic cultural difference isn't racism, and it isn't racism for hospitals to learn how different cultures treat end of life care so they can better work with those cultures.
Racism means believing stupid, incorrect things about an ethnicity. Recognising actual, real differences in how cultures behave is not racism.
I have loaded white friends and loaded black friends, and comments are only made about race jokingly. Why? It doesn't matter!!! All of these men tried hard to distinguish themselves from their peers by grades, perseverance, and planning and received payment for it.
When I played cricket in the country the jokes between the white and black players in our team were hilarious. And the team all got on great, and honestly it was more for the friendship than the cricket that we got together (we never bloody won). But all of that changes not one fething thing about the problems in our country with aboriginal imprisonment rates and aboriginal poverty.
Just because some white and black people get along doesn't change the structural disadvantages one group experiences.
In conclusion stop fighting a battle that has not existed for a good 10-15 years, because in America, race doesn't matter. Except Muslims. Ahhhhhh America.......
No, seriously, go and read. Look up the different rates of income.
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
2013/11/22 04:02:30
Subject: Obama's racist and sexist education secretary
Relapse wrote: I have to strongly disagree with you, Sebster. It is inexcusable for the government to marginalize and blow off with such disrespect any portion of it's society.
It was a crass and needless comment, and should not have been said, for sure.
But focusing in on the word 'white' and pretending that therefore white people were marginalised and hard done by is simply nonsense. Read the comment - he's talking about middle class people. The only racism in the comment is the implication that white = middle class.
But of course that's been missed, and instead we're watching lots of concern and worry about how white people have been so hard done by.
What he has done is take anyone who disagrees with core curriculum and steryotyped them as white surburban women, whether they are or not. It is no wonder among suburbanites, Obama's approval rating has dropped to 37%.
Arrogance has a price, dearee!
2013/11/22 04:09:10
Subject: Re:Obama's racist and sexist education secretary
ThePrimordial wrote: Someone missed an underlying point.
Race in America has nothing to do with how well off you are.
There is a massive difference in average earnings for black and white households.
Someone who's black isn't disadvantaged because he's black. He might not try, he might not be intelligent, or athletic. These are actual disadvantages.The same goes for white people.
Except, as mentioned above, there is a massive difference in earnings between black and white households, with black households earning on average 2/3 of what white households earn. Now, either black people have some kind of inherent disadvantage in intelligence or athleticism or laziness, or there remains a deeper problem.
Because Racism is treating someone's race like a part of what defines them or giving it any credence or importance at all. That's the definition.
Nonsense. You can belong to a culture, and people can recognise that culture without it being in any discriminatory. Just the other night I was watching a show about end of life care, and a Chinese lady was talking about how she decided what she would and wouldn't tell her father who was dying, because in her culture at that point they take responsibility. Recognising that basic cultural difference isn't racism, and it isn't racism for hospitals to learn how different cultures treat end of life care so they can better work with those cultures.
Racism means believing stupid, incorrect things about an ethnicity. Recognising actual, real differences in how cultures behave is not racism.
I have loaded white friends and loaded black friends, and comments are only made about race jokingly. Why? It doesn't matter!!! All of these men tried hard to distinguish themselves from their peers by grades, perseverance, and planning and received payment for it.
When I played cricket in the country the jokes between the white and black players in our team were hilarious. And the team all got on great, and honestly it was more for the friendship than the cricket that we got together (we never bloody won). But all of that changes not one fething thing about the problems in our country with aboriginal imprisonment rates and aboriginal poverty.
Just because some white and black people get along doesn't change the structural disadvantages one group experiences.
In conclusion stop fighting a battle that has not existed for a good 10-15 years, because in America, race doesn't matter. Except Muslims. Ahhhhhh America.......
No, seriously, go and read. Look up the different rates of income.
Is this Australia or America? If you wanna go and judge privledge (feth this tumblr bs right up it's tiny untoned ass!!!!) entirely by earnings then you're gonna run into a problem where white people, or Asian people actually seem more hard working. and or intelligent, due to having similar backgrounds.
Oh you mean aboriginese!!! Dude that's a whole nother thing. It's issues that only ended a few generations ago, and the government (unlike the US with the recently freed slaves) did little to help reintegrate them.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/11/22 04:17:55
Finally found my quote from a gym buddy born and raised in South Korea:
"It is the soldier, not the reporter who has given us the freedom of the press.
"It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us the freedom of speech.
"It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who gives us the freedom to demonstrate.
"It is the soldier who salutes the flag, who serves beneath the flag, and whose coffin is draped by the flag, who allows the protester to burn the flag."
2013/11/22 04:39:16
Subject: Re:Obama's racist and sexist education secretary
Relapse wrote: What he has done is take anyone who disagrees with core curriculum and steryotyped them as white surburban women, whether they are or not.
Reading is both fun and profitable;
""It's fascinating to me that some of the pushback is coming from, sort of, white suburban moms who"
Some. Anyone who disagrees. Some. Anyone who disagrees.
It is no wonder among suburbanites, Obama's approval rating has dropped to 37%.
Arrogance has a price, dearee!
Just purely in terms of building a political narrative, using that number to reinforce the horribleness of something the education secretary said is really, really stupid. Surely, you know, phone tapping or freakin ACA would be a better and more substantial policy to link it. Or even Benghazi.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
ThePrimordial wrote: Is this Australia or America? If you wanna go and judge privledge (feth this tumblr bs right up it's tiny untoned ass!!!!) entirely by earnings then you're gonna run into a problem where white people, or Asian people actually seem more hard working. and or intelligent, due to having similar backgrounds.
No, that's an insane conclusion. Instead you can recognise that the economic system has racial impacts, and this can be the case even when the vast majority of people in the system are doing their best not to treat people differently through race. That bias may be as simple as inter-generational poverty, where the child of a share cropper is also likely to be poor, and so their children are also likely to be poor, and so on. Or there may be basic, underlying assumptions, that while no-one would ever dare say 'oh I wouldn't give a job to a black person', the colour of their skin may impact the weighting they give to various strengths and weaknesses in their application. Or a whole bunch of other stuff, it's a complex problem, with a lot of reasonable points of view on how it is to be addressed.
But what isn't reasonable is to just shut down conversation on the subject, or even worse, to claim that having that conversation is itself racist.
Oh you mean aboriginese!!! Dude that's a whole nother thing. It's issues that only ended a few generations ago, and the government (unlike the US with the recently freed slaves) did little to help reintegrate them.
Actually, as well as the Aborignal players there was a Somali guy. But anyway.
Saying the government did little to help re-integrate them makes absolutely no damn sense at all. We're not talking about people who were put to work in cotton farms or anything like that, we're talking about people who were dispossessed of their land and basically removed from the economic system. The better comparison is to Native Americans.
But the real point is that a bunch of people from one ethnicity can get on really well with people from another group, and that says exactly nothing about the how the system as a whole advantages one group more than another.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/11/22 05:21:20
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
2013/11/22 05:37:08
Subject: Obama's racist and sexist education secretary
Relapse wrote: What he has done is take anyone who disagrees with core curriculum and steryotyped them as white surburban women, whether they are or not.
Reading is both fun and profitable;
""It's fascinating to me that some of the pushback is coming from, sort of, white suburban moms who"
Some. Anyone who disagrees. Some. Anyone who disagrees.
It is no wonder among suburbanites, Obama's approval rating has dropped to 37%.
Arrogance has a price, dearee!
Just purely in terms of building a political narrative, using that number to reinforce the horribleness of something the education secretary said is really, really stupid. Surely, you know, phone tapping or freakin ACA would be a better and more substantial policy to link it. Or even Benghazi.
.
Yes, reading is indeed fun, such as noting he points out one group of people to lime light and belittle. Why?
Yes, I agree everything else mentioned has contributed to Obama's decline, I just used the secretary's remarks as another example, not the prime reason.
2013/11/22 05:54:35
Subject: Re:Obama's racist and sexist education secretary
Relapse wrote: Yes, reading is indeed fun, such as noting he points out one group of people to lime light and belittle. Why?
So now that you've read it again, you realise that your claim of "anyone who disagrees" was incorrect, as the statement said "some"?
Yes, I agree everything else mentioned has contributed to Obama's decline, I just used the secretary's remarks as another example, not the prime reason.
Narrative is a fragile thing, make noise about too many different things without any meaningful link and you'll just end up sounding like you're whinging about any damn thing you can think of. Linking this to Obama is a poor choice when there's so much better stuff to hammer him on that's topical right now.
The better option here is to try and make this a point on that other argument about how white people are so hard done by and the rules for them are different. Which is at least as much of a stretch, but that's a narrative that's been pursued for years on stuff as minor as this, so it should work okay.
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
2013/11/22 06:14:01
Subject: Re:Obama's racist and sexist education secretary
Relapse wrote: Yes, reading is indeed fun, such as noting he points out one group of people to lime light and belittle. Why?
So now that you've read it again, you realise that your claim of "anyone who disagrees" was incorrect, as the statement said "some"?
Yes, I agree everything else mentioned has contributed to Obama's decline, I just used the secretary's remarks as another example, not the prime reason.
Narrative is a fragile thing, make noise about too many different things without any meaningful link and you'll just end up sounding like you're whinging about any damn thing you can think of. Linking this to Obama is a poor choice when there's so much better stuff to hammer him on that's topical right now.
The better option here is to try and make this a point on that other argument about how white people are so hard done by and the rules for them are different. Which is at least as much of a stretch, but that's a narrative that's been pursued for years on stuff as minor as this, so it should work okay.
I am saying that by his statement, he singled out one group. Why not say inner city black moms or some such thing like that? Answer, he'd get his ass handed to him by the press and people who seem to think racism and sexism is ok as long as it's against the right kind of people.
Are you kidding about no meaningful links? They've been provided time and again for all those things mentioned.
2013/11/22 06:26:42
Subject: Re:Obama's racist and sexist education secretary
Relapse wrote: I am saying that by his statement, he singled out one group.
He did, he singled out one group. It was a needless, crude and just plain unhelpful comment. But he did say that only some of the pushback against common core was due to white suburban mums. But then you claimed he said that was all the complainants. Do you not see where you were mistaken?
Why not say inner city black moms or some such thing like that? Answer, he'd get his ass handed to him by the press and people who seem to think racism and sexism is ok as long as it's against the right kind of people.
He didn't say that because when he thinks of the middle class people who are upset the school districts they bought in to aren't as good as they believed... he's not thinking of black people. He's thinking of white people.
Are you kidding about no meaningful links? They've been provided time and again for all those things mentioned.
Well of course you'd think so, you're a true believer in the horrible monstrosity that is Obama. But it isn't good enough for a story to be believed by the true believers like yourself, because you're already on board. What you need is a coherent narrative that'll sell to people that aren't absolutely convinced of the sheer horror that is the Obama administration, and in my opinion trying to go from "Secretary of Education said something crass, therefore Obama is history's greatest monster" is about nine bridges too far.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
cincydooley wrote: Racism is bad in any form. I don't think you can say racism against one group is worse than another.
I think the post from Eilif summed it up perfectly;
"1) All racism is Morally wrong.
2) In the USA, the Practical effects of Racism are more severe for Minorities than for White Americans."
With that being said, being a white dude most certainly makes life easier unless you're trying to get money for college.
And now I find myself agreeing with cincydooley. Strange times are upon us.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/11/22 07:19:08
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
2013/11/22 11:48:08
Subject: Obama's racist and sexist education secretary
Caveat: using "white" as a descriptor isn't racist.
In broad terms, the way I've heard it described is racism is prejudice + institutional power. There's a difference between, say, a black guy discriminating against a white guy and vice versa in that the white guy has the backing of the institutional power and the black guy doesn't.
But then, I think on some level the "white people are the true oppressed!" crowd understand that, just they're under the impression the power is the other way around, because the true measure of oppression is what words you're allowed to say. Talking about racism is a "card", an advantage that non-white people have over white people and played for their gain. Not being able to use racial slurs is the only kind of racism left in our modern society, right?
2013/11/22 12:05:05
Subject: Obama's racist and sexist education secretary
Breotan wrote: And why are we still talking about politics and race when we could be posting pictures of other hottie racist athletes from countries around the world? It boggles my mind.
As you wish...(hottie, I can do without the racist)
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/11/22 12:06:12
2013/11/22 12:44:24
Subject: Re:Obama's racist and sexist education secretary
Race in America has nothing to do with how well off you are. There are no apartments within a hundred miles of where I went to school, where I moved to , and where my daughter goes to school and there is an equal race distribution.
Someone who's black isn't disadvantaged because he's black. He might not try, he might not be intelligent, or athletic. These are actual disadvantages.The same goes for white people...
...In conclusion stop fighting a battle that has not existed for a good 10-15 years, because in America, race doesn't matter. Except Muslims. Ahhhhhh America.......
Sorry, but you are flatly wrong. So wrong in fact that I almost took your remark as in jest until I read the rest of it. Race matters big time in America.
We have decades of statistical data showing that even when the "starting point" of location, educational opportunities, etc are the same blacks (and latinos) are still are at a disadvantage. Just a few indicators that have been studied and shown: they make less than whites in comparable fields, are promoted less often, hired less often, pulled over by cops more often, make less over the course of their lives and their social mobility (how likely they are to be able to move up in social strata) is less than whites.
The battle is far from won, because race does matter.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/11/22 12:45:26
Relapse wrote: I am saying that by his statement, he singled out one group.
He did, he singled out one group. It was a needless, crude and just plain unhelpful comment. But he did say that only some of the pushback against common core was due to white suburban mums. But then you claimed he said that was all the complainants. Do you not see where you were mistaken?
Why not say inner city black moms or some such thing like that? Answer, he'd get his ass handed to him by the press and people who seem to think racism and sexism is ok as long as it's against the right kind of people.
He didn't say that because when he thinks of the middle class people who are upset the school districts they bought in to aren't as good as they believed... he's not thinking of black people. He's thinking of white people.
Are you kidding about no meaningful links? They've been provided time and again for all those things mentioned.
Well of course you'd think so, you're a true believer in the horrible monstrosity that is Obama. But it isn't good enough for a story to be believed by the true believers like yourself, because you're already on board. What you need is a coherent narrative that'll sell to people that aren't absolutely convinced of the sheer horror that is the Obama administration, and in my opinion trying to go from "Secretary of Education said something crass, therefore Obama is history's greatest monster" is about nine bridges too far.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
cincydooley wrote: Racism is bad in any form. I don't think you can say racism against one group is worse than another.
I think the post from Eilif summed it up perfectly;
"1) All racism is Morally wrong.
2) In the USA, the Practical effects of Racism are more severe for Minorities than for White Americans."
With that being said, being a white dude most certainly makes life easier unless you're trying to get money for college.
And now I find myself agreeing with cincydooley. Strange times are upon us.
On this subject, I see there is no point in talking with you, since it appears to you that Obama and his administration can do no wrong no matter what evidence and sources are presented. At this point I think we should just agree to disagree.
2013/11/22 13:21:16
Subject: Obama's racist and sexist education secretary
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/11/22 13:28:30
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
2013/11/25 08:01:07
Subject: Obama's racist and sexist education secretary
Relapse wrote: On this subject, I see there is no point in talking with you, since it appears to you that Obama and his administration can do no wrong no matter what evidence and sources are presented. At this point I think we should just agree to disagree.
You can stop posting if you want. But there's no 'agree to disagree' on the bizarro world interpretation you and the rest of the usual suspects have attempted to put on this issue. I am not, and never have been an Obama fan boy, and I'm happy to talk about the many failings of his presidency. But I have exactly zero patience for crazy right wing nonsense, and pretending that this is about singling out and belittling white people is nutty.
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
