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 Wyzilla wrote:

 StarTrotter wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 StarTrotter wrote:

 DoMiNaNt_HuNtEr wrote:
The Necrons invented death. They killed the creators of this galaxy. If it wasn't for the Necrons, fear wouldn't exist. But it does.

Hands down the Necrons. Plot armor can only last so long.

I don't think you have read enough SM books

This is a versus fight. Petty things like plotshields are waved away and actual advantages are discussed. The Necrons hold nearly all possible advantages and have the high ground.

To be blunt I'm jesting because well.... it's not a fair match. Necrons are simply so preposterously mighty. Greater numbers, greater tech, well greater everything really. Both are decaying but the necrons will take longer to decay. It's kinda like asking imperium vs orks if all the orks unite.

Necrons are only decaying thanks to them being poorly organized and still waking up.

This wouldn't even be a problem if they were all awoken and fully organized and thus able to restart their civilization and fully reform it. Once the IOM's been wiped out, they could focus on mopping everyone else up and return to fleshy bodies to fully reclaim their old civilization while remaining top dog.

Spoiler:

That is actually something the Necrons will never be able to do. All of the people that are necessary for a "civilization", that is, artists, merchants, philosophers, teachers, etc. have all been turned into mindless Warriors. That is, perhaps, the greatest tragedy of their war with the Old Ones. They sacrificed *everything* they were in order to win, only to get the most Pyrrhic of victories. Necrontyr society is as dead as the Old Ones, and all of their experiments on returning to flesh bodies are for naught. They don't have the *minds* left to create a society. All they have are politicians.

 Farseer Faenyin wrote:
I'd say they are on equal footing technology-wise.

Pleeeeease, have you even read any Necron fluff? *rolls eyes*

The most common weapon available to a Necron Warrior can blow a Land Raider up in about three turns of shooting.

Anything necron should just boil down to celestial orrery auto win gg. its quite boring.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge Imperium fan... but the Necrons have this by a landslide, even without bringing the Celestial Orrery or other dooms-day tech into play.

Their armies are immortal. Their weapons, at every level, are superior. Their best tacticians are superior. Their scientists are superior. Their technology is millennia ahead of where the Imperium can hope to be... even DAoT Tech does not hold a candle to what the Necrons have.

And even the Necrons admit that their stuff is starting to fall apart, and it's still better than anyone else in the galaxy!

The Necrons have guys who travel through time to affect the outcome of battles. They have gods in pokeballs. They can infiltrate a starship through their Dolmen Gates.

A fully-awakened, unified Necron race is the death of life in 40K.

Fine, make it interesting at least, the necrons fully awake 1000 years after the emperor who rallies all his remaining primarchs and brings mankind all of its technological marvels from 30k

 Eldar Vampire Hunter wrote:
Based on the fall of orpheus, considering what 1 dynasty could do to a prime, well-defended imperial sector, I have to say crushing victory for the necrons. First recorded destruction of a Tomb Ship and it took a battle barge kamikaze to do it. I am led to believe the imperium is greatly outmatched as far as naval warfare goes. On the ground, things might be a little more even but the Necrons still have the edge with their crazy technology.

If only takes the destruction of a battle barg to take out a tombship then the necrons better run scared and leave the galaxy now.

As noted, making the Necrons fully awake and united tilts the balance. Now to tilt it back a bit you'd have to have the Imperium using and mass replicating DAOT tech and eldar/dark eldar tech (the latter is possible) heaviliy using warp based weaponry and advanced ships. Mayhaps the pressure of a united front cracks the imperium allowing human planets in the imperium to overthrow the adeptus tech superstitution and actually start moving forward.

After all the Old Ones were defeating the Necrons, so it is possible.

 Frazzled wrote:

 Eldar Vampire Hunter wrote:
Based on the fall of orpheus, considering what 1 dynasty could do to a prime, well-defended imperial sector, I have to say crushing victory for the necrons. First recorded destruction of a Tomb Ship and it took a battle barge kamikaze to do it. I am led to believe the imperium is greatly outmatched as far as naval warfare goes. On the ground, things might be a little more even but the Necrons still have the edge with their crazy technology.

If only takes the destruction of a battle barg to take out a tombship then the necrons better run scared and leave the galaxy now.

As noted, making the Necrons fully awake and united tilts the balance. Now to tilt it back a bit you'd have to have the Imperium using and mass replicating DAOT tech and eldar/dark eldar tech (the latter is possible) heaviliy using warp based weaponry and advanced ships. Mayhaps the pressure of a united front cracks the imperium allowing human planets in the imperium to overthrow the adeptus tech superstitution and actually start moving forward.

After all the Old Ones were defeating the Necrons, so it is possible.

You should perhaps reread the Fluff, it took a lot more than the destruction of battleship to damage a Tomb Ship, not destroy it.

The old ones were beating the Necrontyr, Not the Necrons. There is a pretty huge difference.

Niexist wrote:
Fine, make it interesting at least, the necrons fully awake 1000 years after the emperor who rallies all his remaining primarchs and brings mankind all of its technological marvels from 30k

The Emperor has supreme mastery over the Warp and Psyker powers. Even if all of humanity underwent the theorised evolution into Psykers, that's exactly what the Necrontyr spent millions of years fighting against. With Transcendent C'tan, World Engines, Time Travel, use of the Webway to out-maneuver the Imperium (Exactly how the Old Ones were defeating the Necrontyr in the War in Heaven), so what if the Primarchs are back with their Dad? The Primarchs were good warriors with fantastic leadership skills and genius minds for battle. A Necron Nemesor is that, except they're immortal and they have software to command their warriors instinctively. Even with the DAoT stuff being used, it doesn't hope to come close to Necron technology. Let's not even start on the Necron's naval superiority, I haven't read anything that suggests that Imperial ships were any better in 30K as they are now, and, well, just look at Orpheus.

If all of humanity centralised into one unbelievably massive fleet designed as a last stand for all of mankind, forgetting the impact on orbits etc wherever they were doing it, they'd have a huge amount of firepower. In one location. That would be surrounded on all sides. Throne, Orikan might as well jump back a few millenia to scatter the Primarchs so they can't be uni-... Never mind that. But he could certainly make trouble. Maybe even ensure there's a Tomb World in the Solar System.

Scarey Nerd wrote:

Niexist wrote:
Fine, make it interesting at least, the necrons fully awake 1000 years after the emperor who rallies all his remaining primarchs and brings mankind all of its technological marvels from 30k

The Emperor has supreme mastery over the Warp and Psyker powers. Even if all of humanity underwent the theorised evolution into Psykers, that's exactly what the Necrontyr spent millions of years fighting against. With Transcendent C'tan, World Engines, Time Travel, use of the Webway to out-maneuver the Imperium (Exactly how the Old Ones were defeating the Necrontyr in the War in Heaven), so what if the Primarchs are back with their Dad? The Primarchs were good warriors with fantastic leadership skills and genius minds for battle. A Necron Nemesor is that, except they're immortal and they have software to command their warriors instinctively. Even with the DAoT stuff being used, it doesn't hope to come close to Necron technology. Let's not even start on the Necron's naval superiority, I haven't read anything that suggests that Imperial ships were any better in 30K as they are now, and, well, just look at Orpheus.

If all of humanity centralised into one unbelievably massive fleet designed as a last stand for all of mankind, forgetting the impact on orbits etc wherever they were doing it, they'd have a huge amount of firepower. In one location. That would be surrounded on all sides. Throne, Orikan might as well jump back a few millenia to scatter the Primarchs so they can't be uni-... Never mind that. But he could certainly make trouble. Maybe even ensure there's a Tomb World in the Solar System.

I think Nemesor's are the equivalent of a chapter master, not a primarch. Remember, we're giving the emperor 1000 years to fix things, and get the imperium back on track. In that amount of time he'd probably pump up the space marine production to ridiculous amounts, probably every chapter would be made to go to legion strength, so you'd be looking at close to 100 million space marines, not to mention the emperor has the knowledge of so much lost tech, and his own genius level intellect at work for 1000 years. I don't think Necron's have anything on the battlefield to deal with the emperor, or a primarch.

The Necrons still win. The Emperor wakes up... and Sol explodes. Game over.

It's called the Celestial Orrery.

Or, hey, Tesseract Labyrinths!

Cryptek: "That a Primarch?"
Trazyn the Infinite: *tosses Pokeball*
Cryptek #2: "Gotta catch 'em all!"
Trazyn the Infinite: "This will go great in my collection!"

Yeah, despite the flaw of being "mortal" or at least killable by mortal blow (it is safer to say the marines are timeless), they possess abilities which can fracture the real and unreal simultaneously, at a fundamental level. When the Emperor locks with Horus and he delivers a killing blow, he blows Horus's soul out of the warp, crushes his mind and breaks his body. That's a power the "immortal" Necrons would fear, even if they were familiar with it.

On top of that, there is another angle not being seen. If the Emperor is able to command that much strength, then he would be able to command the Warp itself, and thus the Warp Gods which would also drastically change. This is the other massive presence the Necrons would really rather not deal with. And imagine if the "Ruinous Powers" were no longer "Ruinous" but "Noble?" The 4 Noble Powers? :O

That would be weird, but that's what would happen to the Warp and why the Chaos Gods feared him. He could have purified the Warp and in turn, his people who were reflected there.

Niexist wrote:
I think Nemesor's are the equivalent of a chapter master, not a primarch. Remember, we're giving the emperor 1000 years to fix things, and get the imperium back on track. In that amount of time he'd probably pump up the space marine production to ridiculous amounts, probably every chapter would be made to go to legion strength, so you'd be looking at close to 100 million space marines, not to mention the emperor has the knowledge of so much lost tech, and his own genius level intellect at work for 1000 years. I don't think Necron's have anything on the battlefield to deal with the emperor, or a primarch.

Technically, it depends on the Nemesor in question, as it's not a place in the hierarchy, it's just a situational title, like Grand Admiral. Nemesor Zahndrekh was a Phaeron, now he's an Overlord, but he's a Nemesor in battle. As others have said, Tesseract Labyrinths are pretty much a go-to solution, and remember that in almost one instant, the Necrons used the universe to destroy the C'tan. What if they woke up that stuff? Illuminor Szeras designed the process to rip the consciousness out of sentient beings and then put it in a body of metal that is alive and is almost impossible to actually kill, I think he might have a few tricks up his sleeve, especially since he spends his time vivisecting sentient species to return to living form, and so discovers their strengths, weaknesses etc. The emperor might be a genius, he might have lived for 40,000 years, he might be able to remember every single piece of technology designed by humankind since they crawled onto dry land. But the Necrons are at least 600 million years old, probably more like a few billion years old. They have technology that can remotely make a star go supernova. The Imperium have cannons. The Necrons can make a planet into a spaceship. The Imperium have Battle Barges. The Necrons united would have access to all that technology, and anything new they can come up with. Then travel back and deploy it before humanity went into space, First Contact style.

 TheRedWingArmada wrote:
Yeah, despite the flaw of being "mortal" or at least killable by mortal blow (it is safer to say the marines are timeless), they possess abilities which can fracture the real and unreal simultaneously, at a fundamental level. When the Emperor locks with Horus and he delivers a killing blow, he blows Horus's soul out of the warp, crushes his mind and breaks his body. That's a power the "immortal" Necrons would fear, even if they were familiar with it.

On top of that, there is another angle not being seen. If the Emperor is able to command that much strength, then he would be able to command the Warp itself, and thus the Warp Gods which would also drastically change. This is the other massive presence the Necrons would really rather not deal with. And imagine if the "Ruinous Powers" were no longer "Ruinous" but "Noble?" The 4 Noble Powers? :O

That would be weird, but that's what would happen to the Warp and why the Chaos Gods feared him. He could have purified the Warp and in turn, his people who were reflected there.

Supposition not supported by evidence in the setting so far. He "could" have purified the Warp... maybe. He certainly wasn't anywhere near doing it then, and ten thousand years later, the Warp is no cleaner a place. And the Ruinous Powers will never be Noble powers. Violence is Violence, Khorne is Khorne. Ambition, dreams, hopes, plots and puzzles are Tzeentch. Things still rot and decay, so Nurgle's not going anywhere.

The Emperor certainly didn't affect much change of the Warp Gods during the Heresy, what makes you think he's going to be able to do so now? Yeah, he's a powerful psyker, I get that... but this era is beyond his ability to precog. As we've been shown, lacking his precognition, he's kind of indecisive and muddled. Rather a lot, really. It's a crutch that he relied on for far too long.

What happens when he gets off the Throne and the Imperial Palace is suddenly packed wall-to-wall, floor-to-ceiling with the greatest predators the Warp can produce, because the Web-Way gate that's been under his butt for 10,000 years has a fething huge hole in it, and most of his time is spent holding it shut?

Also....

Necrons don't have souls. They have personality engrams. It's just software. Blow it out of reality? It respawns. Sometimes immediately. Unlike every other species in the setting, the Necrons are the ones who are truly immortal.

 Psienesis wrote:

 TheRedWingArmada wrote:
Yeah, despite the flaw of being "mortal" or at least killable by mortal blow (it is safer to say the marines are timeless), they possess abilities which can fracture the real and unreal simultaneously, at a fundamental level. When the Emperor locks with Horus and he delivers a killing blow, he blows Horus's soul out of the warp, crushes his mind and breaks his body. That's a power the "immortal" Necrons would fear, even if they were familiar with it.

On top of that, there is another angle not being seen. If the Emperor is able to command that much strength, then he would be able to command the Warp itself, and thus the Warp Gods which would also drastically change. This is the other massive presence the Necrons would really rather not deal with. And imagine if the "Ruinous Powers" were no longer "Ruinous" but "Noble?" The 4 Noble Powers? :O

That would be weird, but that's what would happen to the Warp and why the Chaos Gods feared him. He could have purified the Warp and in turn, his people who were reflected there.

Supposition not supported by evidence in the setting so far. He "could" have purified the Warp... maybe. He certainly wasn't anywhere near doing it then, and ten thousand years later, the Warp is no cleaner a place. And the Ruinous Powers will never be Noble powers. Violence is Violence, Khorne is Khorne. Ambition, dreams, hopes, plots and puzzles are Tzeentch. Things still rot and decay, so Nurgle's not going anywhere.

The Emperor certainly didn't affect much change of the Warp Gods during the Heresy, what makes you think he's going to be able to do so now? Yeah, he's a powerful psyker, I get that... but this era is beyond his ability to precog. As we've been shown, lacking his precognition, he's kind of indecisive and muddled. Rather a lot, really. It's a crutch that he relied on for far too long.

What happens when he gets off the Throne and the Imperial Palace is suddenly packed wall-to-wall, floor-to-ceiling with the greatest predators the Warp can produce, because the Web-Way gate that's been under his butt for 10,000 years has a fething huge hole in it, and most of his time is spent holding it shut?

Also....

Necrons don't have souls. They have personality engrams. It's just software. Blow it out of reality? It respawns. Sometimes immediately. Unlike every other species in the setting, the Necrons are the ones who are truly immortal.

We're usually on the same side of these things, so I'm sure this post won't be wasted on you. lol

Firstly, you should know that I think the Emperor is as much a fool to the Chaos Gods as any other mortal in the Imperium of Man, Chaos Space Marines, Daemon Primarchs/Primarchs, Inquisition, Psykers, Lords of Terra, the whole bunch of them. They've been using the power of the Chaos Gods without their consent (more or less) and so Chaos has played a master-stroke chess game with the entire universe that has been in the works for over 10,000+ years. I think the Emperor was basically duped into ascending to the Golden Throne and now suffers to the whims of the Choas Gods thuroughly now. I go back to a previous post somewhere where I describe a scene of Abbadon cracking open the Golden Throne in front of all the Loyalists, and then the Emperors emaciated body falling out, screaming obscenities and madness that literally shakes the Imperium of Man and Terra down to its soul, before Abbadon crushes the wretches head underneath his boot.

That said, that's where the above comes from: If the Emperor is theoretically on scale with the Chaos Gods (completely affecting of the Warp, same as them) then he could have possibly seen before and after the Siege of Terra, but not during. Fateweaver has a similar complex, so it's not so far fetched. That said, his duel with Horus was a gamble (although I stick to the idea that both Horus and the Emperor were meant to kill each other, per the planning of Chaos) and one he thought he had planned accordingly.

Ugh... lost my train of thought watching the Thing. If I can come back to this point at some time, I will. It's been a hell of a week for me. XD

The whole "Like a Chaos God But Not" is something of a fan theory, because there's nothing in the setting that really tells us what the God-Emperor *is* now. We're given a few apocryphal tales of the Emperor communicating directly with certain individuals, but most of these stories are many, many years old now, and possibly no longer valid...

.... or were never true in the first place and just grew out of tales told across the stars in an inter-stellar game of Telephone.

He may really just be a corpse on a chair, and died ten thousand years ago.

The powers of the psyker are not the powers of the Chaos Gods. Chaos... specifically, the Warp... exists outside of the Chaos Gods. It's simply a parallel dimension made of an energy that can be shaped and muted into absolutely anything by those with the ability to wield it. So psykers, and by extension the Emperor, are not really stealing anything from the Chaos Gods.

It's also implied, incidentally, that Chaos, as we know it in the 40K setting, is restricted to the Milky Way. There may, or may not be, Warps in other galaxies.

I thought the god-awful third edition retcrons were bad, but this new stuff seems just as mary sue overpowered. I'm always annoyed by the 'but my dad can beat up your dad!' posturing by these no-weakness, completely invulnerable so why don't you just pack up and go home factions. Why were they even written into the background if there is no way for them to be beaten? It's dull.

Breaking down the Necrons into smaller faction leaves the possibility of in fighting (has already happened). Which combined with their new limits on both travel and comunications. Prevents them from being the "Only a matter of time winner of 40k".

It is only when you view them as a whole do they seem so unstopable.

 Stonerhino wrote:
Breaking down the Necrons into smaller faction leaves the possibility of in fighting (has already happened). Which combined with their new limits on both travel and communications. Prevents them from being the "Only a matter of time winner of 40k".

It is only when you view them as a whole do they seem so unstoppable.

What limit on travel? I know they use Dolmen gates for long distance travel, but their ships are still the fastest in the galaxy at close range, and they can teleport from one planet to another as a reflex. As for communications, I'd like to know what can stop Necron communication signals.

Yeah, the Necrons aren't limited to Torchships and Dolmen Gates. They've regained the inertialess drive and can achieve FTL speeds now. Their communications seem to use some sort of hyperdimensional transmission matrix.... but if Faith & Fire is any indication, it is not galaxy-spanning, as the various relays that this require have, in the last 60 million years, fallen into disrepair or been lost or something. Or, at least, their comm-net is not quite as good and not perfectly reliable anymore. This could also be because the various Dynasties had no reason to speak to one another.

Though, I agree that, as written (as Newcron or Oldcron) they've always been Mary Sue villains. Whether it's the reality-shaping C'Tan that are sending their legions of robot death-machines out to harvest populations so the star vampires can feed on their souls or the machinations of the conquering Dynasties, doesn't really matter.

It should be understood that every race has an endgame for the Universe, and the Necrons just have one of the more terrifying and realistic ones. Mostly because they have already taken over the universe once before and then took a nap. So now they're waking up all over the place and taking things back again.

That said, the Necrons end-game is no worse than say, the Chaos endgame, which is to turn all of Real Space into a giant living Chaos body/daemon engine/organ.

Scarey Nerd wrote:

 Stonerhino wrote:
Breaking down the Necrons into smaller faction leaves the possibility of in fighting (has already happened). Which combined with their new limits on both travel and communications. Prevents them from being the "Only a matter of time winner of 40k".

It is only when you view them as a whole do they seem so unstoppable.

What limit on travel? I know they use Dolmen gates for long distance travel, but their ships are still the fastest in the galaxy at close range, and they can teleport from one planet to another as a reflex. As for communications, I'd like to know what can stop Necron communication signals.

The 5th ed rule book tells us that the Necron's galaxy spaning communication network is not working. Also with the Necrons still having LFT travel outside the Dolman gates. That means that at this time their fleet is either to small (not enough operational yet) or not efficient enough to be their primary form of travel.

The difference between the Necron endgame and all the other's is that it was only a matter of time and trumps every other endgame except the Tyranids (maybe).

 Stonerhino wrote:

Scarey Nerd wrote:

 Stonerhino wrote:
Breaking down the Necrons into smaller faction leaves the possibility of in fighting (has already happened). Which combined with their new limits on both travel and communications. Prevents them from being the "Only a matter of time winner of 40k".

It is only when you view them as a whole do they seem so unstoppable.

What limit on travel? I know they use Dolmen gates for long distance travel, but their ships are still the fastest in the galaxy at close range, and they can teleport from one planet to another as a reflex. As for communications, I'd like to know what can stop Necron communication signals.

The 5th ed rule book tells us that the Necron's galaxy spaning communication network is not working. Also with the Necrons still having LFT travel outside the Dolman gates. That means that at this time their fleet is either to small (not enough operational yet) or not efficient enough to be their primary form of travel.

The difference between the Necron endgame and all the other's is that it was only a matter of time and trumps every other endgame except the Tyranids (maybe).

Except so is Chaos. They've been playing a longer game than anyone, Necrons included. The Necrons went to sleep, forgot to set the alarm and are lucky to be waking up at all. They should've all slept and died and never been a problem in the first place, but some curious monkey came along with a wrench and screwed that plan up for everyone. It only took a few million years, but still not bad. Chaos on the other hand? Actively and passively bringing about the End of Terra and afterwards, the universe.

The Eldar want everything to be pretty for when they finally can reproduce enough to colonize things, otherwise they've resigned themselves to the slow death.

The Imperium would take over everything and eventually march on like Tyranids actually, which takes care of two birds with one stone, except unlike Tyranids, the Imperium has to deal with rebellion, which feeds Choas, so they're destined to die actually, same with Tyranids after overconsumption.

DEldar? No future.

Tau have a future if they can stay alive long enough. Much like the Imperium actually.

Orkz are Eternal.

Did I miss anyone?

 TheRedWingArmada wrote:

 Stonerhino wrote:

Scarey Nerd wrote:

 Stonerhino wrote:
Breaking down the Necrons into smaller faction leaves the possibility of in fighting (has already happened). Which combined with their new limits on both travel and communications. Prevents them from being the "Only a matter of time winner of 40k".

It is only when you view them as a whole do they seem so unstoppable.

What limit on travel? I know they use Dolmen gates for long distance travel, but their ships are still the fastest in the galaxy at close range, and they can teleport from one planet to another as a reflex. As for communications, I'd like to know what can stop Necron communication signals.

The 5th ed rule book tells us that the Necron's galaxy spaning communication network is not working. Also with the Necrons still having LFT travel outside the Dolman gates. That means that at this time their fleet is either to small (not enough operational yet) or not efficient enough to be their primary form of travel.

The difference between the Necron endgame and all the other's is that it was only a matter of time and trumps every other endgame except the Tyranids (maybe).

Except so is Chaos. They've been playing a longer game than anyone, Necrons included. The Necrons went to sleep, forgot to set the alarm and are lucky to be waking up at all. They should've all slept and died and never been a problem in the first place, but some curious monkey came along with a wrench and screwed that plan up for everyone. It only took a few million years, but still not bad. Chaos on the other hand? Actively and passively bringing about the End of Terra and afterwards, the universe.

The Eldar want everything to be pretty for when they finally can reproduce enough to colonize things, otherwise they've resigned themselves to the slow death.

The Imperium would take over everything and eventually march on like Tyranids actually, which takes care of two birds with one stone, except unlike Tyranids, the Imperium has to deal with rebellion, which feeds Choas, so they're destined to die actually, same with Tyranids after overconsumption.

DEldar? No future.

Tau have a future if they can stay alive long enough. Much like the Imperium actually.

Orkz are Eternal.

Did I miss anyone?

How is Chaos "playing a longer game"? The Necrons were around before the warp got all kinds of crazy. In fact they are one of the few races to at one time have controlled most of the galaxy, Chaos has never had a total victory like that even for a small amount of time. Also them waking up wasn't a mistake, the Silent King started that process up (for the most part).

 asimo77 wrote:

 TheRedWingArmada wrote:

 Stonerhino wrote:

Scarey Nerd wrote:

 Stonerhino wrote:
Breaking down the Necrons into smaller faction leaves the possibility of in fighting (has already happened). Which combined with their new limits on both travel and communications. Prevents them from being the "Only a matter of time winner of 40k".

It is only when you view them as a whole do they seem so unstoppable.

What limit on travel? I know they use Dolmen gates for long distance travel, but their ships are still the fastest in the galaxy at close range, and they can teleport from one planet to another as a reflex. As for communications, I'd like to know what can stop Necron communication signals.

The 5th ed rule book tells us that the Necron's galaxy spaning communication network is not working. Also with the Necrons still having LFT travel outside the Dolman gates. That means that at this time their fleet is either to small (not enough operational yet) or not efficient enough to be their primary form of travel.

The difference between the Necron endgame and all the other's is that it was only a matter of time and trumps every other endgame except the Tyranids (maybe).

Except so is Chaos. They've been playing a longer game than anyone, Necrons included. The Necrons went to sleep, forgot to set the alarm and are lucky to be waking up at all. They should've all slept and died and never been a problem in the first place, but some curious monkey came along with a wrench and screwed that plan up for everyone. It only took a few million years, but still not bad. Chaos on the other hand? Actively and passively bringing about the End of Terra and afterwards, the universe.

The Eldar want everything to be pretty for when they finally can reproduce enough to colonize things, otherwise they've resigned themselves to the slow death.

The Imperium would take over everything and eventually march on like Tyranids actually, which takes care of two birds with one stone, except unlike Tyranids, the Imperium has to deal with rebellion, which feeds Choas, so they're destined to die actually, same with Tyranids after overconsumption.

DEldar? No future.

Tau have a future if they can stay alive long enough. Much like the Imperium actually.

Orkz are Eternal.

Did I miss anyone?

How is Chaos "playing a longer game"? The Necrons were around before the warp got all kinds of crazy. In fact they are one of the few races to at one time have controlled most of the galaxy, Chaos has never had a total victory like that even for a small amount of time. Also them waking up wasn't a mistake, the Silent King started that process up (for the most part).

Chaos isn't subject to causality. It's both never existed and always existed. Slaanesh is described as having a set birth date, yet always was in Chaos as a full-fledged god. Simply because it has a set date of creation in the materium doesn't mean it hasn't eternally existed in the immaterium, because the warp is weird.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 asimo77 wrote:

 TheRedWingArmada wrote:

 Stonerhino wrote:

Scarey Nerd wrote:

 Stonerhino wrote:
Breaking down the Necrons into smaller faction leaves the possibility of in fighting (has already happened). Which combined with their new limits on both travel and communications. Prevents them from being the "Only a matter of time winner of 40k".

It is only when you view them as a whole do they seem so unstoppable.

What limit on travel? I know they use Dolmen gates for long distance travel, but their ships are still the fastest in the galaxy at close range, and they can teleport from one planet to another as a reflex. As for communications, I'd like to know what can stop Necron communication signals.

The 5th ed rule book tells us that the Necron's galaxy spaning communication network is not working. Also with the Necrons still having LFT travel outside the Dolman gates. That means that at this time their fleet is either to small (not enough operational yet) or not efficient enough to be their primary form of travel.

The difference between the Necron endgame and all the other's is that it was only a matter of time and trumps every other endgame except the Tyranids (maybe).

Except so is Chaos. They've been playing a longer game than anyone, Necrons included. The Necrons went to sleep, forgot to set the alarm and are lucky to be waking up at all. They should've all slept and died and never been a problem in the first place, but some curious monkey came along with a wrench and screwed that plan up for everyone. It only took a few million years, but still not bad. Chaos on the other hand? Actively and passively bringing about the End of Terra and afterwards, the universe.

The Eldar want everything to be pretty for when they finally can reproduce enough to colonize things, otherwise they've resigned themselves to the slow death.

The Imperium would take over everything and eventually march on like Tyranids actually, which takes care of two birds with one stone, except unlike Tyranids, the Imperium has to deal with rebellion, which feeds Choas, so they're destined to die actually, same with Tyranids after overconsumption.

DEldar? No future.

Tau have a future if they can stay alive long enough. Much like the Imperium actually.

Orkz are Eternal.

Did I miss anyone?

How is Chaos "playing a longer game"? The Necrons were around before the warp got all kinds of crazy. In fact they are one of the few races to at one time have controlled most of the galaxy, Chaos has never had a total victory like that even for a small amount of time. Also them waking up wasn't a mistake, the Silent King started that process up (for the most part).

Chaos isn't subject to causality. It's both never existed and always existed. Slaanesh is described as having a set birth date, yet always was in Chaos as a full-fledged god. Simply because it has a set date of creation in the materium doesn't mean it hasn't eternally existed in the immaterium, because the warp is weird.

Necrons deside to complete their "Great Work". There by closing off the warp. What does Chaos do??? Brood in the warp unable to do anything at all. The Necron then wipe out every living thing that does not further their goals.

No warp based FTL travel and the Necrons win hands down. The one exception is the Tyranids and they are just the exception that proves the rule.

 Stonerhino wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 asimo77 wrote:

 TheRedWingArmada wrote:

 Stonerhino wrote:

Scarey Nerd wrote:

 Stonerhino wrote:
Breaking down the Necrons into smaller faction leaves the possibility of in fighting (has already happened). Which combined with their new limits on both travel and communications. Prevents them from being the "Only a matter of time winner of 40k".

It is only when you view them as a whole do they seem so unstoppable.

What limit on travel? I know they use Dolmen gates for long distance travel, but their ships are still the fastest in the galaxy at close range, and they can teleport from one planet to another as a reflex. As for communications, I'd like to know what can stop Necron communication signals.

The 5th ed rule book tells us that the Necron's galaxy spaning communication network is not working. Also with the Necrons still having LFT travel outside the Dolman gates. That means that at this time their fleet is either to small (not enough operational yet) or not efficient enough to be their primary form of travel.

The difference between the Necron endgame and all the other's is that it was only a matter of time and trumps every other endgame except the Tyranids (maybe).

Except so is Chaos. They've been playing a longer game than anyone, Necrons included. The Necrons went to sleep, forgot to set the alarm and are lucky to be waking up at all. They should've all slept and died and never been a problem in the first place, but some curious monkey came along with a wrench and screwed that plan up for everyone. It only took a few million years, but still not bad. Chaos on the other hand? Actively and passively bringing about the End of Terra and afterwards, the universe.

The Eldar want everything to be pretty for when they finally can reproduce enough to colonize things, otherwise they've resigned themselves to the slow death.

The Imperium would take over everything and eventually march on like Tyranids actually, which takes care of two birds with one stone, except unlike Tyranids, the Imperium has to deal with rebellion, which feeds Choas, so they're destined to die actually, same with Tyranids after overconsumption.

DEldar? No future.

Tau have a future if they can stay alive long enough. Much like the Imperium actually.

Orkz are Eternal.

Did I miss anyone?

How is Chaos "playing a longer game"? The Necrons were around before the warp got all kinds of crazy. In fact they are one of the few races to at one time have controlled most of the galaxy, Chaos has never had a total victory like that even for a small amount of time. Also them waking up wasn't a mistake, the Silent King started that process up (for the most part).

Chaos isn't subject to causality. It's both never existed and always existed. Slaanesh is described as having a set birth date, yet always was in Chaos as a full-fledged god. Simply because it has a set date of creation in the materium doesn't mean it hasn't eternally existed in the immaterium, because the warp is weird.

Necrons deside to complete their "Great Work". There by closing off the warp. What does Chaos do??? Brood in the warp unable to do anything at all. The Necron then wipe out every living thing that does not further their goals.

No warp based FTL travel and the Necrons win hands down. The one exception is the Tyranids and they are just the exception that proves the rule.

Obviously. But the ability to destroy Chaos is confusing and likely impossible given some of the fluff GW made that's a bit oxymoronic.

You don't have to destroy Chaos if you can render all of their power meaningless. At that point they are just spectators anyways.

 Stonerhino wrote:
You don't have to destroy Chaos if you can render all of their power meaningless. At that point they are just spectators anyways.

Best to still keep the guns pointed on potential rips. It's better to be safe than sorry with Chaos.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Stonerhino wrote:
You don't have to destroy Chaos if you can render all of their power meaningless. At that point they are just spectators anyways.

Best to still keep the guns pointed on potential rips. It's better to be safe than sorry with Chaos.

Chaos has always been a spectator! That's what Chaos does. It lurks, and lies in wait until there is a choice opportunity (everywhere in the galaxy, as it turns out) and then it springs to attack but only enough to keep itself fed, like a slavering hound dying of hunger but unable to sate its desire. And what is Chaos' chief instrument of warfare when it comes to laying its claim to the universe? The usurpation of other races. especially ones like the Tyranids.

You can minimalize Chaos all day long and rationalize it with what can be done, but that's the problem. Chaos will ensure no one ever sees their plans met, most especially their own because if any of the ruinous powers were to truly win their Great Game, they would die. And I think a lot of Chaos players can understand this after reading both of the Codex's. This doesn't mean their End Game can never be met, it just means that the weirdness of the Warp is of such unfathomable scope that anyone who isn't already insane is going to have trouble understanding it.

Is this a perpetual gamble? What isn't in Chaos? Hell, our armies are largely based around whether or not the dice gods hate us at any given time. @.@ Deep Striking, Psyker Abilities, Warpflame/Soul Blaze, Chaos Boon Table, Chaos Storm Table, it's all a craps game with us, but one that ensures everyone always wins and everyone always loses. It's just a matter of how you are looking at it at that time, fluff included.