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Made in gb
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-25062525
China has demarcated an "air-defence identification zone" over an area of the East China Sea, covering islands that are also claimed by Japan.

China's defence ministry said aircraft entering the zone must obey its rules or face "emergency defensive measures".

The islands, known as Senkaku in Japan and Diaoyu in China, are a source of rising tension between the countries.

Japan lodged a strong protest over what it said was an "escalation".

Since President Xi Jinping took power a year ago, he has overseen a more muscular effort to assert Chinese control over disputed territories in East and South China seas.

His nationalist approach, backed-up by large increases in spending on the armed forces, is welcomed by many in China. But it has led to increasing tension with almost all of China's neighbours. Many, like Japan, have defence agreements with the United States, which has long sought to preserve the balance of power in Asia.

The fear is that one small incident, for example between Chinese and Japanese vessels or aircraft, could escalate rapidly into a far wider and more serious crisis.

"Setting up such airspace unilaterally escalates the situations surrounding Senkaku islands and has danger of leading to an unexpected situation," Japan's foreign ministry said in a statement.

Taiwan, which also claims the Diaoyu/Senkaku islands, expressed regret at the move and promised that the military would take measure to protect national security.

In its statement, the Chinese defence ministry said aircraft must report a flight plan, "maintain two-way radio communications", and "respond in a timely and accurate manner" to identification inquiries.

"China's armed forces will adopt defensive emergency measures to respond to aircraft that do not co-operate in the identification or refuse to follow the instructions," said the statement.

It said the zone came into effect from 10:00 local time (02:00GMT) on Saturday.

State news agency Xinhua showed a map on its website covering a wide area of the East China Sea, including regions very close to South Korea and Japan.

Responding to questions about the zone on an official state website, a defence ministry spokesman, Yang Yujun, said China set up the area "with the aim of safeguarding state sovereignty, territorial land and air security, and maintaining flight order".

"It is not directed against any specific country or target," he said, adding that China "has always respected the freedom of over-flight in accordance with international law".

map of east china sea and declared air defence zone
"Normal flights by international airliners in the East China Sea air-defence identification zone will not be affected in any way."

The islands have been a source of tension between China and Japan for decades.

In 2012, the Japanese government bought three of the islands from their Japanese owner, sparking mass protests in Chinese cities.

Since then, Chinese ships have repeatedly sailed in and out of what Japan says are its territorial waters.

In September this year, Japan said it would shoot down unmanned aircraft in Japanese airspace after an unmanned Chinese drone flew close to the disputed islands.

China said that any attempt by Japan to shoot down Chinese aircraft would constitute "an act of war".

Last month Japan's defence minister, Itsunori Onodera, said China's behaviour over the disputed East China Sea islands was jeopardising peace.

BBC World Service East Asia editor Charles Scanlon says the confrontation over the small chain of uninhabited islands is made more intractable by conflicting claims for potentially rich energy resources on the sea bed.

But the issue has now become a nationalist touchstone in both countries, making it hard for either side to be seen to back down, he says.



So.....in a potential escalation, whereby Japan sends in an aircraft to blow up a Chinese drone in what has now effectively been declared Chinese airspace, what happens next? Do any of you think the Chinese would take the next step of going to a war footing with Japan? Do the US get involved? If the US get involved, does that drag in everyone in NATO into a squabble over a handful of uninhabited islands on the other side of the world?

I'm inclined to think it's a 'no' the the latter one, but the rest seems plausible enough from where I'm sitting. Certainly, nations have gone to war over more stupid reasons.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/11/23 17:51:08



 
   
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Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!

I thought those island has mineral/oil deposits? o.O

I don't see Japan letting that happen...

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China has our purse strings so I don't see us doing a lot. Maybe this gets referred to the UN

 
   
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Saratoga Springs, NY

 Dreadclaw69 wrote:
China has our purse strings so I don't see us doing a lot. Maybe this gets referred to the UN


But if we get in a war with China and win then we don't have to repay anything we owed them because the entities we owed the money to won't exist anymore...

We should totally invade China!

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Of course, invade China!
What could possibly go wrong?

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 Dark Apostle 666 wrote:
Of course, invade China!
What could possibly go wrong?


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 Dreadclaw69 wrote:
China has our purse strings so I don't see us doing a lot. Maybe this gets referred to the UN


Au contraire. The USA owes China a colossal fortune of dollars, not to mention the trade imbalance and technology transfers.

Nothing could be better than a short war allowing all those debts to be annexed and repudiated.

Not that a clever diplomat would say such a thing out loud.

I'm writing a load of fiction. My latest story starts here... This is the index of all the stories...

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See Iraq's reasoning for invading Kuwait.

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Fort Campbell

I expect to see more hemming and hawwing. China gets an Aircraft carrier, so what. They upgrade bomber capabilities and can launch nuclear missiles to the US, oh well. Their drastically increasing military expenditures, nothing to worry about. They're expanding their ADZ to provoke conflict with our allies, it's all something to joke about.

Is this what it felt like in the 30's?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/11/23 20:58:35


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I quick drive through with a CVBG or two should solve this problem pretty quickly

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Australia

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Au contraire. The USA owes China a colossal fortune of dollars, not to mention the trade imbalance and technology transfers.

Nothing could be better than a short war allowing all those debts to be annexed and repudiated.

Why not wish for a unicorn ridden by a busty virgin while you're at it?

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Pleasant Valley, Iowa

 djones520 wrote:
I expect to see more hemming and hawwing. China gets an Aircraft carrier, so what. They upgrade bomber capabilities and can launch nuclear missiles to the US, oh well. Their drastically increasing military expenditures, nothing to worry about.?


I know that when your only perceived tool is a hammer; every problem looks like a nail - invading-country-wise - but have some perspective. Russia has had nuclear missiles pointed at this country for over 50 years, and they weren't economically dependant upon us.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/11/24 01:42:18


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Fort Campbell

 Ouze wrote:
 djones520 wrote:
I expect to see more hemming and hawwing. China gets an Aircraft carrier, so what. They upgrade bomber capabilities and can launch nuclear missiles to the US, oh well. Their drastically increasing military expenditures, nothing to worry about.?


I know that when your only perceived tool is a hammer; every problem looks like a nail - invading-country-wise - but have some perspective. Russia has had nuclear missiles pointed at this country for over 50 years, and they weren't economically dependant upon us.


Yeah, and we spent 50 years in a Cold War with Russia. China deserves more attention then "their nothing to worry about" that they seem to get all of the time. They most likely aren't recreating the rise of the 3rd Reich, but they've increased their military spending by roughly 800% over the last 13 years, and they've grown much more beligerent in the region. They've been rapidly modernizing their military for a reason, they expect the need to use it.

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 djones520 wrote:
They most likely aren't recreating the rise of the 3rd Reich, but they've increased their military spending by roughly 800% over the last 13 years..

And yet the United States still spends four times that amount.

"When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."
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Fort Campbell

 AlexHolker wrote:
 djones520 wrote:
They most likely aren't recreating the rise of the 3rd Reich, but they've increased their military spending by roughly 800% over the last 13 years..

And yet the United States still spends four times that amount.


Your point?

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What the heck is so important about these islands anyway?

This sounds more like sabre rattling than anything else.

GG
   
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Fort Campbell

 generalgrog wrote:
What the heck is so important about these islands anyway?

This sounds more like sabre rattling than anything else.

GG


Fishing and mineral rights mostly, plus territorial sovereignty. We wouldn't to happy if China just decided to start camping out on some of our uninhabited Pacific Islands, and claimed them as their own.

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IIRC, it's mainly the minerals which are found in that region (never quite sure if they're on the sea bed or the islands).

See, you're trying to use people logic. DM uses Mandelogic, which we've established has 2+2=quack. - Aerethan
Putin.....would make a Vulcan Intelligence officer cry. - Jihadin
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 djones520 wrote:
 generalgrog wrote:
What the heck is so important about these islands anyway?

This sounds more like sabre rattling than anything else.

GG


Fishing and mineral rights mostly, plus territorial sovereignty. We wouldn't to happy if China just decided to start camping out on some of our uninhabited Pacific Islands, and claimed them as their own.


Oh I'm not saying that they should just be given away, but it has to be taken into consideration if the are worth fighting for.

GG
   
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Australia

 djones520 wrote:
 AlexHolker wrote:
 djones520 wrote:
They most likely aren't recreating the rise of the 3rd Reich, but they've increased their military spending by roughly 800% over the last 13 years..

And yet the United States still spends four times that amount.

Your point?

That the Sinophobia routine is a bit rich coming from the country that spends four times as much in pure monetary terms and twice as much as a percentage of GDP.

"When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."
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Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!

 AlexHolker wrote:
 djones520 wrote:
 AlexHolker wrote:
 djones520 wrote:
They most likely aren't recreating the rise of the 3rd Reich, but they've increased their military spending by roughly 800% over the last 13 years..

And yet the United States still spends four times that amount.

Your point?

That the Sinophobia routine is a bit rich coming from the country that spends four times as much in pure monetary terms and twice as much as a percentage of GDP.

Still doesn't answer his question...

You do know that the Navy keeps the shipping lanes "open" dontcha? (disclaimer, I don't know if it's an active objective or it's simply that we have the capability to show up if anyone tries this gak).

If not us... then who?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/11/24 17:49:14


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The Void

 Kilkrazy wrote:
 Dreadclaw69 wrote:
China has our purse strings so I don't see us doing a lot. Maybe this gets referred to the UN


Au contraire. The USA owes China a colossal fortune of dollars, not to mention the trade imbalance and technology transfers.

Nothing could be better than a short war allowing all those debts to be annexed and repudiated.

Not that a clever diplomat would say such a thing out loud.


Actually we owe more to Japan then China as I recall. Which is kinda bs considering the costs of basically handling the majority of their defense expenditures for them.

We really need to send Japan, Israel, most of Europe and Saudi Arabia a bill. That'd clean up our debt issues over night. France gets billed triple for Vietnam.

I beg of you sarge let me lead the charge when the battle lines are drawn
Lemme at least leave a good hoof beat they'll remember loud and long


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Somewhere in south-central England.

List of countries that would support Japan versus China:

USA
Canada
UK
Poland
France
Belgium
Holland
Italy
Germany
Sweden
Norway
Denmark
Thailand
Singapore
Taiwan
Australia
New Zealand
The Philippines
South Korea


List of countries that would support China versus Japan:

North Korea

I'm writing a load of fiction. My latest story starts here... This is the index of all the stories...

We're not very big on official rules. Rules lead to people looking for loopholes. What's here is about it. 
   
Made in gb
Morphing Obliterator






That list seems about right, Killkrazy.

See, you're trying to use people logic. DM uses Mandelogic, which we've established has 2+2=quack. - Aerethan
Putin.....would make a Vulcan Intelligence officer cry. - Jihadin
AFAIK, there is only one world, and it is the real world. - Iron_Captain
DakkaRank Comment: I sound like a Power Ranger.
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The Void

Russia might jump in for China, but if Vlad's smart he'd use it as an excuse to strengthen his Eastern borders (which the Chinese have been eyeing since at least the 60s, lots of resources in Siberia)

I beg of you sarge let me lead the charge when the battle lines are drawn
Lemme at least leave a good hoof beat they'll remember loud and long


SoB, IG, SM, SW, Nec, Cus, Tau, FoW Germans, Team Yankee Marines, Battletech Clan Wolf, Mercs
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 generalgrog wrote:
What the heck is so important about these islands anyway?

This sounds more like sabre rattling than anything else.

GG



What is vitally import to Japan is the Chunxiao gas fields.. For some reason as of late Japan wants to be less dependent on Nuclear power.....

Their answer was the Chunxiao gas fields. Which happens, by some strange coincidence to be where the "New" improved boundary is supposed to be...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Kilkrazy wrote:
List of countries that would support Japan versus China:

USA
Canada
UK
Poland
France
Belgium
Holland
Italy
Germany
Sweden
Norway
Denmark
Thailand
Singapore
Taiwan
Australia
New Zealand
The Philippines
South Korea


List of countries that would support China versus Japan:

North Korea


List of countries with a massive top of the line military that have been expanding and not shrinking and wanting to expand.

China.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/11/24 19:51:13


If I was vain I would list stuff to make me sound good here. I decline. It's just a game after all.

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Olympia, WA

 Kilkrazy wrote:
List of countries that would support Japan versus China:

USA
Canada
UK
Poland
France
Belgium
Holland
Italy
Germany
Sweden
Norway
Denmark
Thailand
Singapore
Taiwan
Australia
New Zealand
The Philippines
South Korea


List of countries that would support China versus Japan:

North Korea


Yeah but N. Korea has unicorns.
   
Made in us
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LOL

Not quite....

http://io9.com/5964879/no-the-north-korean-government-did-not-claim-it-found-evidence-of-unicorns

The mistranslation was a good joke about the western media for a while...in South Korea.

I hear the North Korean government was not amused.

The picture was funny..

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/11/24 20:05:53


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We had missiles in the 30's?

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 Jihadin wrote:
We had missiles in the 30's?


Well the V2 was initially developed in the 30's but that may not have been his point...

If I was vain I would list stuff to make me sound good here. I decline. It's just a game after all.

House Rule -A common use of the term is to signify a deviation of game play from the official rules.

Do you allow Forgeworld 40k approved models and armies? 
   
 
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