why is this game so disliked?

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**Desert Fox**

For model price, it should be noted that the figures for LOTR are produced by Perry Bros which means you can use almost any historical figures instead (Especially actual Perry Brothers miniatures). I know it really takes out a lot of the fluff, but I've actually been scouting out pre-movie LOTR artwork and I quite like how some of the races look (For instance, the Norman knight-esque knights of Minas Tirith). Apart from getting a host of bits and models of equal sculpting quality (And sometimes more), you also tend to be able to get them by the bucketload for the price of 12 or so of the normal, licensed figures.

Of course, I'm lucky that I have two brothers that enjoy the game as much as I do and are quite fine with me wanting to use everything from vikings for Rohirrim to knightly orders for Dol Amroth knights. I really don't know how well using alternatives would sit with other players but I can't imagine they'd complain all that much since it's hard enough to find a casual game to begin with.

**Paradigm**

Using cheaper alternatives is certainly an option, but not something I'd personally go with. The biggest draw of LOTR is the setting, and while using vikings as Rohirrim or Knights as gondor looks fairly close, it's not quite the same, to me at least.

You're right in that a lot of the artwork does look different, but really, the film version is something far more people are familiar with. If I didn't play, and walked into a club and saw Knights of Gondor charging through Morannon orcs, I'd buy an army there and then and get playing, as it's instantly recognisable.

If I saw vikings vs non-GW-lotr orcs, I'd assume it was just a generic fantasy game and move on without much interest.

So yeah, it's a perfect solution if you're already invested and have players willing to do the same, but for a lot of people, they might as well be playing WFB or KOW at that point.

Of course, the best thing that could happen is if GW realised what the Perrys sell for, drop the LOTR prices to those levels+a bit for the brand name. We can all dream.

**Da krimson barun**

Meanwhile in 40k the players decide to rewrite the entire ruleset for some reason.Half the people there have written off 40k and just go there to complain about D weapons and riptides.

**Pacific**

As others have said, think it's more a case of indifference, rather than dislike.

Although that wasn't the case when LoTR was first released. Think a lot of 40k/WFB fans were upset at the attention the new system received, at the expense of their own, especially as it was generally considered a bit more 'lightweight' than the other 2 core systems.

Case in point, you had things like this appearing on the web (courtesy of the now long gone Golden Throne website)

**dakkajet**

Pacific wrote:
As others have said, think it's more a case of indifference, rather than dislike.

Although that wasn't the case when LoTR was first released. Think a lot of 40k/WFB fans were upset at the attention the new system received, at the expense of their own, especially as it was generally considered a bit more 'lightweight' than the other 2 core systems.

Case in point, you had things like this appearing on the web (courtesy of the now long gone Golden Throne website)

Wich is now the same with the hobbit. 1 whole page of the hobbit! Yes a whole page! It's stunning!

**Bronzefists42**

Paradigm wrote:
I think it's down to a few things.

First off, the lifespan of the game. 40k and WFB have players that have been there from the 80s/90s, and as such, have an understandable attachment to the game. LOTR, while existing as a universe longer, has only been on the gaming scene a relatively short time.

Second, your point about people feeling confined by the books is a good one, it is amusing how some people throw a fit over elves vs Gondor but are fine with SM vs SM or WH High Elves Vs Wood Elves. This probably does come from the fact that LOTR does clearly define good and evil as a setting, whereas 40k and WHFB (to a lesser extent) do not. This wouldn't be a problem but for the fact that, thanks to the setting and style, many more people play LOTR for the narrative than those who look for the same in 40k. I myself am guilty of this, I must admit. I'll happily pit my Ultramarines against Blood Angels, and yet would hesitate to play my Gondor army against Rohan. (not that that's an issue as I can't get a game. I'd happily play my own side if it meant my Gondorians could come off Shelf Duty!)

Thirdly, from a purely objective point of view, the LOTR models are often inferior to 40k models. Style aside, 40k and WFB use multi-part plastic with a metric tonne of options and bitz. LOTR models are largely more limited in posing and variety, and don't lend themselves to conversions as much. This wasn't an issue when I could get 24 LOTR minis for the price of 10 40k figures. Now they're around the same price, for me, 12 single-pose Dwarf Grimhammers, despite being amazingly cool models, are going to fall behind a unit of Guardsmen or Space Marines, as I'll get more use from the 40k stuff as I'll actually get a game. This is a self-perpetuating cycle, as it results in less people buying into the game, meaning there's less use for the people that do buy figures.

Certainly, though, it is a real shame the game is less popular, as as a ruleset it is amazing, and the figures are great.

War of the Ring has wonderful rules, strategy battle game... lets just say my experience with it was not very good. Also I have to say the models are the biggest problem, mainly there lack of customization and how rigid (appearance wise) to the lore they must be. I'd shoot for a stylized model I have more freedom over than a detailed one that limits it any day.

**Trondheim**

Because of the many crettins that only play 40k, and considers anything remotely void of chesse and somewhat haphazzard rules to exploit bad. Thats why

**jasper76**

It's an awesome system for skirmish games. Epic games take too long too play, and LOTR is an epic world.

I don't mind playing large games mind you, but they are an enourmous time sink.

**Paradigm**

jasper76 wrote:
It's an awesome system for skirmish games. Epic games take too long too play, and LOTR is an epic world.

I don't mind playing large games mind you, but they are an enourmous time sink.

That's a good point, I bet most prospective players want to go straight in with Helm's Deep or Minas Tirith, and are then put off by the time and model requirement. WOTR counters the time element, but building a WOTR army is expensive, especially with a lot of non-core stuff in metal/finecast still.

**Shadow Captain Edithae**

Lord of the Rings is the game that introduced me to miniature wargaming, and Gamesworkshop in particular.

Were it not for the SBG, I would not have gone on to start a Raven Guard army for Warhammer 40K, nor bought my 15 odd 40K Black Library books. I also probably would not have heard of the Dawn of War video game series, nor Space Marine (X360).

**Da krimson barun**

Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Lord of the Rings is the game that introduced me to miniature wargaming, and Gamesworkshop in particular.

Were it not for the SBG, I would not have gone on to start a ork army for Warhammer 40K,orcs for fantasy, nor bought my 2 40k/fantasy Black Library books. I also probably would not have heard of the Dawn of War video game series, nor Space Marine (X360).

To change it to my story it didn't need much changes.

**Bronzefists42**

Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Lord of the Rings is the game that introduced me to miniature wargaming, and Gamesworkshop in particular.

Were it not for the SBG, I would not have gone on to start a Raven Guard army for Warhammer 40K, nor bought my 15 odd 40K Black Library books. I also probably would not have heard of the Dawn of War video game series, nor Space Marine (X360).

same here.

**dakkajet**

Bronzefists42 wrote:
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Lord of the Rings is the game that introduced me to miniature wargaming, and Gamesworkshop in particular.

Were it not for the SBG, I would not have gone on to start a Raven Guard army for Warhammer 40K, nor bought my 15 odd 40K Black Library books. I also probably would not have heard of the Dawn of War video game series, nor Space Marine (X360).

same here.

Same (ish) here.

**Bronzefists42**

dakkajet wrote:
Bronzefists42 wrote:
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Lord of the Rings is the game that introduced me to miniature wargaming, and Gamesworkshop in particular.

Were it not for the SBG, I would not have gone on to start a Raven Guard army for Warhammer 40K, nor bought my 15 odd 40K Black Library books. I also probably would not have heard of the Dawn of War video game series, nor Space Marine (X360).

same here.

Same (ish) here.

I think it was also 40k that made me realize how limited LOTR was. With 40k's universe and gameplay so open it was easy to put your own "flair" on your army. When I first started 40k it seemed like 40k was soaring through the sky and LOTR was just trapped in a small box.

**whitehorn**

Lotr is a brilliant game.

Downside is price rises and a lack of player base (mostly because it looked simplistic) means the game died before it could really take hold.

On the other hand, if you can find players then building armies is dirt cheap. The stuff is almost worthless on ebay compared to other gw products and you really only want to play small sized games anyway.
I've found the best sized games are 250-500 points, esp if you limit the use of named heroes.

**treslibras**

whitehorn wrote:
Lotr is a brilliant game.

On the other hand, if you can find players then building armies is dirt cheap. The stuff is almost worthless on ebay compared to other gw products and you really only want to play small sized games anyway.

I need to take a good look at ebay.co.uk then, because on German Ebay, prices are ridiculous (ly high) nowadays.

**whitehorn**

It started to go up again in the last few months.
Last summer esp I was getting 24 plastic mordor orcs for a tenner, inc postage.

**Aftermath.**

2 things really.

1 - It is too expensive

2 - Very few people play it

**busby**

I love both the skirmish and the war system. Simple yet fun. The downside are the models. They appear as though they were purposely under designed. ... Well, the new models look better at least.

**Da krimson barun**

Aftermath. wrote:
2 things really.

1 - It is too expensive

2 - Very few people play it

actually Its WAY cheaper then 40k.
Rules:65 euro rule book and 20 euro source book=85.Could also get efgt for 100 euro and download PDF(which also covers models)
Heros:3 heroes and a banner:32 euro
Warriors:2 boxes of LOTR =39 euro.(24 warriors)
That's probably around 300 points already.Which is a not uncommon point limit in the beginning.So its way cheaper.Except when it comes to starter boxes.No wait a dark angel/Chaos codex is 40 euro.So hobbit wins by 20 euro.Since our hobbit codex is free on the internet.

**Shadow Captain Edithae**

It also used to be far cheaper too. When I started, boxes of plastic infantry cost about £15 for 24 models. They're now £25 for 10 (the latest Hobbit releases).

**namiel**

Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
It also used to be far cheaper too. When I started, boxes of plastic infantry cost about £15 for 24 models. They're now £25 for 10 (the latest Hobbit releases).

Yeah when I started I got about 600 points of glahadrim elves for $120.

**Da krimson barun**

Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
It also used to be far cheaper too. When I started, boxes of plastic infantry cost about £15 for 24 models. They're now £25 for 10 (the latest Hobbit releases).

I know....WHY!WHY WAS I SEVERAL MONTHS TO LATE FOR DOUBLE THE MODELS!WHY!

**Shadow Captain Edithae**

Da krimson barun wrote:
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
It also used to be far cheaper too. When I started, boxes of plastic infantry cost about £15 for 24 models. They're now £25 for 10 (the latest Hobbit releases).

I know....WHY!WHY WAS I SEVERAL MONTHS TO LATE FOR DOUBLE THE MODELS!WHY!

I started in 2003. You were several years late.

**Da krimson barun**

Weren't they halved in early 2012 or late 2011?

**Shadow Captain Edithae**

yeah. Existing boxes went from 24 models to 12 models (unless they were already 20 model boxes like Uruk Hai and Haradrim). New releases from the Hobbit onwards began to include 10 model boxes more often.

But by the time the boxes were halved, the 24 model boxes were already about £24.

When I started in 2003, they were either £12 or £15 (can't quite recall).

**Paradigm**

Yeah, at the beginning it was £15 for 20-24 infantry, and £12 for 6 cavalry. So you could literally get a 50-model army for around £50, including heroes. So while it is perhaps cheaper than 40k now, it was even cheaper a few years back. I know that had I come into the game after the price rise/content reduction, I wouldn't have bothered.

There was also the magazine that helped the game grow a lot in the early days, for £3.99 you got 12 plastic or one metal mini, a section of rules (the first 15 issues covered the core rules, the rest added extra rules or mini army books), as well as a painting guide for the models, a modelling/scratchbuilding guide for all types of terrain, and a custom scenario. It was a great deal, and the origin of most of my collection. Across 91 issues, I ended up with a skirmish army for almost every faction, all of the major heroes of the books and films (including some alternate sclupts) and rules for pretty much everything, as well as 80+ terrain/painting articles and scenarios.

Looking at a box of Warriors of Minas Tirith for £15 in GW and thinking I got exactly the same for £3.99 makes me feel at once lucky and also outraged at how they price the current stuff so high.

**Sincity**

I don't know that it's hated so much as feared. The fear is that GW may get another harpoon to thrust into the gaming whales.

**3rdGen**

I hated it when i first started. I got into it with the starter set of the fellowship and goblins and a troll. I couldn't geget my head around priority and how easy it was i thought i was playing wrong. I think its just a lack of interest in trying new systems (its taken me 3 years of staring at my shadowrun books before i even tried it, now its one of my main systems. I think once i get back into the swing of things ill play LOTR more than 40k. As it stands for a game i used to hate i now have about 4000 points of models so yeah....

I think coming from warhammer (40k, fantasy or otherwise) different system, different models and added layers like priority make it hard for people to get the full scope of the game. But lets admit it another big plus.... The models are cheap as compared to w40k and fantasy

**NickOnwezen**

I personally started a Hobit/Lotr army today because there happened to be an event going on in my GW store and only 1 player showed up to play against the store manager. On a whim i asked if i could borrow a few store models to play the game and as an avid 40k player i found the ruleset such a breath of fresh air that i dropped in and bought a few boxes of Models that i will enjoy even if they just sit painted on a shelf and snagged the army book for my new army so i can play a few games at the store, I may be fortunate as there are still about 10 or so active players at the local store and today just happened to be a slow day. I think its gonna be a lot of fun playing! And i just wanted to let you guys know that new players still pick up the game now and then too!