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I don't see why people are so bent up out of shape over this. All of the battleforces offered a small discount.... by giving you a kit or squad you didn't want in the first place.

Like orks... doesn't work on a table top level. You have too many boyz for the trukk... or you have a trukk you didn't want... or you have only 3 worthless bikers that aren't that great on the tabletop.

Or tau... you get some firewarriors, suits and... piranha and stealth suits.... yay? At least the piranha is marginally useful but the stealth suits are terrible.

Eldar gives you again, gives you either a transport you didn't want or too many troops to fit in said transport, and a vyper you probably didn't want.

The trend continues across all of these sets. Anyone familiar to the way the game is played currently knows that the battleforce offers a free unit... but that unit isn't one you wanted in the first place. You spend a lot of money to buy what you could just buy for the same price to get what you really wanted anyway.

These just don't make a lot of business sense anymore. I'd wager they aren't getting a lot of new blood, and the old blood certainly aren't buying battleforces.

Sad to hear about them get rid of the boxes (though it's no surprise). I'm thinking about starting a dwarf army and a £70 battalion is a lot easier to stomach than a £150 box.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I guess GW don't want new players having an easy way to expand their armies.

They don't want players, their goal is to "trick" people to buy the most expensive thing possible. Then they become fed up and quit, and a new person is tricked. This is the new GW business model.

Oh my god, I didn't realise I'd been hoodwinked. Thanks so much, mysterious stranger, for coming to my rescue! etc

 Bull0 wrote:
Oh my god, I didn't realise I'd been hoodwinked. Thanks so much, mysterious stranger, for coming to my rescue! etc

You probably thought you enjoyed putting your models together, painting them and playing games with them. That's how they get you, with hours of "enjoyment".

We've reached beyond the point price/quality wise where buying 40k products directly from GW is anything but being ripped off. You can say you're fine with being ripped off, but it doesn't change the fact.

Additionally GW tries to sell overtly young inexperienced people the most needless and expensive things possible with no expectation or desire to have them come back.

My two statements were directed at these two realities.

Battleforces were mixed. Some of them had good composition, some not so much. They were usually good for newbies providing a nucleus for an army, but for anyone building a competive army, they generally weren't worth it: also, their cost kept creeping up much faster than rest of the line, making savings considerably smaller over time. I think Tau Battleforce went from 60 euros to 95 euros in just three years: since the units which battleforce was made up saw much smaller price increases, in the end Battleforce just really wasn't worth it.

It's true that the game could use more affordable 'starter deals' also in absolute price (not just relative). OTOH, new larger 'Strike forces' seem like better deals (at least presently...) than the Battleforces were.

What the GW is really lacking is complete starter kit: a legal army AND Codex for a reasonable price. They should offer such deals at least to some of the most popular armies.

 Bull0 wrote:
Oh my god, I didn't realise I'd been hoodwinked. Thanks so much, mysterious stranger, for coming to my rescue! etc

It's odd, the whitest knight (or blue, when Brylcream was still posting) usually has the cutest response. Your enjoyment of the game has nothing to do with GW's business strategy. Their actions speak louder than your words. I also don't feel cheated by the 4 years of 40k I enjoyed during 5th edition, but it doesn't change the fact that GW wants the new bloods, not guys like us. I also can't understand how you enjoy 6th, as the game lends itself to abusive players (closest model is an idiotic rule from gameplay standings, horrible vehicle frailty, CC near-uselessness, etc). I bought two SM mega forces and felt they were worth every penny-I'm sure the new mega forces will be the same if you buy at discount like I did. My discounted boxes worked out to about 50% off-I'm selling stuff off and gaining back what I spent. My post rambles a bit-I'm tired, fried from work and I doubt my line of thought is anything resembling "follow-able". Also on an iPhone, always makes posts strange.

Tl;dr-white knight attitude, their business strategy sucks, 6th sucks, mega forces are still good value, I'm tired.

 timetowaste85 wrote:


It's odd, the whitest knight (or blue, when Brylcream was still posting) usually has the cutest response. Your enjoyment of the game has nothing to do with GW's business strategy. Their actions speak louder than your words. I also don't feel cheated by the 4 years of 40k I enjoyed during 5th edition, but it doesn't change the fact that GW wants the new bloods, not guys like us. I also can't understand how you enjoy 6th, as the game lends itself to abusive players...

Tl;dr-white knight attitude, their business strategy sucks, 6th sucks, mega forces are still good value, I'm tired.

A strange phrase, white knight. Few people here suggest the sun shines out of GW's ass - but even saying you like a game, or that GW[i] aren't totally evil[i], provokes this kind of over-the-top accusation.

I also wonder what kind of places you hang out at, that attracts these abusive, nasty people. We've rarely encountered them.

I see GW staff interacting with kids all the time. Some of the staff are obnoxious - many are charming, funny and patient, going about their lives much like normal people, rather than the shocktroops of an evil empire. With my 13-year old, the only heavy sales pitch I've ever heard was for a Dark Vengeance set - and a Broodlord.

^ This...My local Games Workshop is where my wife and I started playing last year and they have never steered us wrong or pitched something just for a sale, even when we were brand new and knew nothing about the game. I even consider them friends at this point. I do feel that some prices are outrageous and Ebay what I cant justify spending, but I still buy from them from time to time because we play there, they are nice to us and I want to support the store.

The TK box was a good one. And so is the Ogre one, but it's like 120 bucks.

That said, they sit on our shelves for a long long time unless someone is already committed to buying into a new army.

Quiet you guys!
Your personal experience of positive GW interactions has no relation to other people's doomsaying!
You are getting in the road of people decrying the nigh inevitable death of GW!

 Hivefleet Oblivion wrote:

 timetowaste85 wrote:


It's odd, the whitest knight (or blue, when Brylcream was still posting) usually has the cutest response. Your enjoyment of the game has nothing to do with GW's business strategy. Their actions speak louder than your words. I also don't feel cheated by the 4 years of 40k I enjoyed during 5th edition, but it doesn't change the fact that GW wants the new bloods, not guys like us. I also can't understand how you enjoy 6th, as the game lends itself to abusive players...

Tl;dr-white knight attitude, their business strategy sucks, 6th sucks, mega forces are still good value, I'm tired.

A strange phrase, white knight. Few people here suggest the sun shines out of GW's ass - but even saying you like a game, or that GW[i] aren't totally evil[i], provokes this kind of over-the-top accusation.

I also wonder what kind of places you hang out at, that attracts these abusive, nasty people. We've rarely encountered them.

I see GW staff interacting with kids all the time. Some of the staff are obnoxious - many are charming, funny and patient, going about their lives much like normal people, rather than the shocktroops of an evil empire. With my 13-year old, the only heavy sales pitch I've ever heard was for a Dark Vengeance set - and a Broodlord.

I'm on my laptop now, can be a bit more coherent. I've actually only made that call after seeing large quantities of certain posts praising GW and tearing down others who disagree with their decision. And yeah, I tried one game of 6th and had multiple instances of "that guy looks about a millimeter closer-you have to remove him." Constantly. I felt bored through the entire thing. Again, I'll praise them when they deserve it-I still buy their pant, I prefer it over any others I've tried. Their background and lore is phenomenal. 5th edition was great fun. But I also hate it when they make such awful mistakes like 6th. I posted that the mega-sets are great deals based on what I've seen in the past couple years. I've never had a bad experience in a GW store before either, and as such I haven't cried out against those-I feel most of my displeasure has been voiced in the correct areas. If you disagree, maybe we can discuss in a PM and not drag further off topic (I admit to being a cause of OT).

BrotherVord wrote:

 scarletsquig wrote:
Makes sense I don't see why they're necessary when the webstore has all those one-click bundles, just a waste of shelf space.

And they were a bundle of models sold at a discount so GW was deliberately losing money for their shareholders every time they sold one.

You can't have that sort of thing going on and still expect to maximize quarterly dividend yield.

You can't honestly believe that selling $6 worth of plastic being sold for $180 is going to put a company out of business. Even with operating expenses and other materials we're looking at a huge profit margin. On a per sale basis. The problem is that gw is trying to be something they aren't - if they'd stick to their roots they'd be in much better shape

Gw make about £2 off a £28 box. Profitability in manufacturing has a lot more to do with labour costs, economies of scale and services, than it has to do with the cost of raw material. I'm on my phone atm but i can elaborate more on this later if you like.

GW's own figures disagree with you, but I look forward to a fuller answer..

Remember Az, xru lives in an alternate reality where GW are the plucky put-upon underdog company just fighting to get the Best Miniatures In The World out to the masses, but the evil Internet people keep putting them down. This is the same reality where GW won the CHS case.

So yes, where he's from what he said about £2 on every £28 box is 100% true. He's not lying.

That's what they make on the box, the contents have a much higher profit margin.

He's not as ludicrously incorrect as one might assume.

Based on their reported turnover and profit, they average about £3.50 on a £28 sale if you extrapolate from the percentages and remove VAT.

That is net profit though, so that is the money GW gets to keep for its very ownsome, once all the rent, wages, utilities, materials, design, production, Kirby's solid gold bog seat etc are all paid for (and let us remember that reported profit is used for taxation purposes, so is a carefully managed as to not be too low to scare the shareholders or too high to incur "excess" corporation tax)

So, not a huge amount of actual money out, but a country mile in terms of percentages.

having seen the Tyranid Swarm box contents vin White Dwarf, if looks like they may be getting back into battleforces...that could, of course, just be limited edition.

TechMarine1 wrote:
having seen the Tyranid Swarm box contents vin White Dwarf, if looks like they may be getting back into battleforces...that could, of course, just be limited edition.

It's not limited edition.

The "Battleforces" are being replaced with boxes equivalent to "Megaforces".

UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote:
Basically te individual box prices have risen to be so close to the original £50-70 price point of battle forces that it becomes impossible to offer a multi kit box at that price point. This is why you are now starting to see the new £100+ bundles. It's a consequence of rising prices, so essentially the new £100+ boxes are the replacement battleforces/battalions.

This. The old battleforces basically gave you a starter army in the box. A lot of stuff, at a reasonable discount from buying individually.



Then they did the usual "slight drop in price for half as much" trick, to stay in line with the constantly rising prices.



But now, as others have noted, with still-rising prices, even the "new" battleforce price point has become too low to sustain if they want to have more than one model in the kit...


edit - fixed, spoilered pics.

 azreal13 wrote:
GW's own figures disagree with you, but I look forward to a fuller answer..

Source

Revenue: £134m.

Pre-Royalties Profit: £20.

That's a ratio of £6.7 for every £1 proft. so a £30 box will get GW, on average, £4.57. So yeah I was off by a pound, good catch.

Nah mate, I was off by a £1, YOU were off by £2.50, which is also 250%, not a small margin of error.

 azreal13 wrote:

That is net profit though, so that is the money GW gets to keep for its very ownsome, once all the rent, wages, utilities, materials, design, production, Kirby's solid gold bog seat etc are all paid for (and let us remember that reported profit is used for taxation purposes, so is a carefully managed as to not be too low to scare the shareholders or too high to incur "excess" corporation tax)

The shareholders would be very interested to know that Kirby is using company money to buy himself luxury items. Unless of course you made that up in order to bash GW and couldn't find anything concrete to hand?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 azreal13 wrote:
Nah mate, I was off by a £1, YOU were off by £2.50, which is also 250%, not a small margin of error.

Do feel free to show your working out so the whole class can join in.

Let's see...
You claimed (I assume) a net profit of £2 on £28

I claimed nearer £3.50

You then admitted I was closer, and in fact by your own figures still underestimated it, and said you were off by £1.

If you're really unable to see the solid gold bog seat reference as humour, regardless of whether you find it humorous, then there is no hope for you.

I don't know why you're bothering Az. Dude's never going to admit even the slightest defeat, however trivial.

Oh, incidentally, a net profit of almost 20% is incredibly healthy for a retailer, if they could just grow their revenue they'd be rolling in it.

 Kanluwen wrote:

TechMarine1 wrote:
having seen the Tyranid Swarm box contents vin White Dwarf, if looks like they may be getting back into battleforces...that could, of course, just be limited edition.

It's not limited edition.

The "Battleforces" are being replaced with boxes equivalent to "Megaforces".

Are they? I was under the impression that the four released at Christmas were limited releases. No idea about the others (except the SM one which seems to be a permanent offering).

 Sidstyler wrote:
You're missing the point. It's a larger saving, but you're being asked to spend twice as much in one go.

GW raises the price of a Tac Squad and suddenly GW is gouging their customers. Okay, fair enough. But later, GW puts together a "Big Box Mart" deal at a decent enough discount and suddenly... wait for it... GW is gouging their customers. Some people will complain about anything on this site.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I don't know why you're bothering Az. Dude's never going to admit even the slightest defeat, however trivial.

I think the victory here is obvious to everyone else, I don't need or require an admission of defeat.

I will just cooly swipe a comb through my bryllcreamed hair, stare into the middle distance and let my points testify for themselves.

 azreal13 wrote:
Let's see...
You claimed (I assume) a net profit of £2 on £28

I claimed nearer £3.50

You then admitted I was closer, and in fact by your own figures still underestimated it, and said you were off by £1.

The £2 out of £28 was my recollection, which I clarified later with facts.

It appears that my actual facts were correct, so that's all there is to say on the matter.

If you're really unable to see the solid gold bog seat reference as humour, regardless of whether you find it humorous, then there is no hope for you.

You implied that gw/kirby was somehow sneaking profit out from the backs of the shareholders, or that they are hiding profits somehow. The fact that you made a joke out of it doesn't make you any less wrong.

Tell you what - I'll admit that your golden toilet seat joke was the funniest thing I've ever read in my life, if you admit that my statistical analysis above was correct and that gw make, on average, £4.50 profit on a £30 box.