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2013/11/28 17:36:05
Subject: 1750 Jy2's Wraithwing Necrons vs ImotekhTheStormlord's Seer Council Deldar (Turn 2 Up)
Thud wrote: I love the chair in the first picture, especially how it comes right after you casually mentioned he didn't get fortune.
I was thinking I'd like to hear the story of that chair. Did it meet the gamer who it could not support?
'Tis a dark tale, indeed.
There was a time, legends tell, when the chair stood strong and proud. It stood as the bulwark beneath many a noble warrior.
Then came a great creature from times arcane.
Stories say that he was so large that his head touched the very sky and his sides stretched along the seas.
With a motion labored and slow he sat upon the chair, resting his colossal bulk upon the noble beast.
At first the chair held.
Then, with a dreadful cracking noise that echoed throughout the world, the chair buckled and broke. The colossal gamer fell to the floor, shaking the ground itself. You know of it as the 1994 Northridge Earthquake.
---
Seriously though, I have no idea.
Celesticon 2013 Warhammer 40k Tournament- Best General
Sydney August 2014 Warhammer 40k Tournament-Best General
2013/11/28 18:58:43
Subject: Re:1750 Jy2's Wraithwing Necrons vs ImotekhTheStormlord's Seer Council Deldar (Turn 2 Up)
Impressive showing from the Jetlock council...imagine if they had Fortune! Seems like a pretty close match, but I predict that the Warp Spiders will get whittled down, the immortal/scythe duos go after the Eldar in the backfield and cause massive damage, leading to a 5-3 cron victory. win on primary, tie on secondary, you both get line breaker
13000
12000
:daemon 14000
:darkeldar 5000
2013/11/28 20:14:58
Subject: 1750 Jy2's Wraithwing Necrons vs ImotekhTheStormlord's Seer Council Deldar (Turn 2 Up)
jathomas2013 wrote: Impressive showing from the Jetlock council...imagine if they had Fortune! Seems like a pretty close match, but I predict that the Warp Spiders will get whittled down, the immortal/scythe duos go after the Eldar in the backfield and cause massive damage, leading to a 5-3 cron victory. win on primary, tie on secondary, you both get line breaker
I'll second that.
2013/11/28 21:45:48
Subject: 1750 Jy2's Wraithwing Necrons vs ImotekhTheStormlord's Seer Council Deldar (Turn 3 Up)
I think the joke me and thud were referencing by mentioning the chair was that he must have raged and smashed the chair do to not getting the all important power ha ha. At least that was the image I was painting in my head, but then again my imagination is crazier then a bag full of half starved cats
Red Corsair wrote: I think the joke me and thud were referencing by mentioning the chair was that he must have raged and smashed the chair do to not getting the all important power ha ha. At least that was the image I was painting in my head, but then again my imagination is crazier then a bag full of half starved cats
What can I say? The chair was looking at me funny. It was... mocking me.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/11/28 22:18:34
Celesticon 2013 Warhammer 40k Tournament- Best General
Sydney August 2014 Warhammer 40k Tournament-Best General
2013/11/28 22:18:59
Subject: Re:1750 Jy2's Wraithwing Necrons vs ImotekhTheStormlord's Seer Council Deldar (Turn 4 Up)
hippesthippo wrote: Hit and Runnin on his turn instead of yours early on was a huge error and it cost him the game. Thanks for the report.
I'm pretty new to this army so I would love to know why.
Thanks.
I don't buy it. Your explanation of why you did it seemed pretty sound to me, and I don't see how it cost you anything. Considering he took your bait and recharged, I'd say it worked very well, keeping your backfield clear of wraiths for another turn.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/11/29 03:01:26
Full Frontal Nerdity
2013/11/29 04:23:36
Subject: 1750 Jy2's Wraithwing Necrons vs ImotekhTheStormlord's Seer Council Deldar (Completed)
djones520 wrote: I'm noticing a tread with the Eldar armies that you play against JY. Late game staying power.
They seem to dominate early on, and then fall apart towards the end.
I'm pretty new to this army so I would love to know why.
Thanks.
That's just the way the builds go for eldar and tau. The scoring troops are the most fragile and unthreatening units in either codex. You spend alot of points buffing everything else to smash face as quickly as you can, usually things that can shred troops first and then you are forced to wipe out their troops. JY2 doesn't seem to suffer from this as much because he takes troops that are multiwound bases with 2+/5++/5-up FnP, come in large fearless blocks (until shot up enough), or troops that get to hide in Matt Ward's favorite rulebreaking transports...and at which time they do come down in their little transport rules breaking ways, they have to pretty much be shot off the board to a man, or they'll get right back up all the while backed by Ld10. He also goes second a crazy amount of times. Why this matters is because going 1st means you have to weather at least one turn of shooting per scoring objective that your opponent doesn't HAVE to. You gotta give it to him as an army commander, he always notes when he's going 1st and he hardly ever deviates from spilling out enemy scoring troops pre-turn5. It's just that important to start mowing down those troops to either wipe/break/shoot them off an objective.
You'll also note in some of his batreps that it's second nature for him to ignore non-scoring units even if they are internet fanboy units. Riptides are nasty but in an objective based game that doesn't need to worry about a riptide's potential killing power or bonus movement, he ignores them. Same with Dreadknights/Hive Tyrants (non-warlord)...if they don't need to die, they are ignored until everything else that needs to be killed are removed from the board. Tau and Eldar currently have a love affair with these big MCs all of the sudden. They don't really do that good of a job protecting troop choices.
So what do Tau and Eldar have to protect troop choices? Pricey vehicles and reserves. At least Eldar versions are killy, Tau transports are borderline terribad. Some Tau are still using troop choices to bubble wrap and protect other scoring units, or worse, non-scoring stationary units! This helps JY2 hunt them down. Now reserves are where it gets interesting. When people start to take more Warlord traits from the BRB to boost their rolls, take kroot hounds, take scryers gaze (farseers), or comlinks in their ADLs, then those reserve games will start balancing out alot better. You'll be able to push units back even further into the game. Yes, it's alot more dangerous with less units/threats on the board but when your troops are so fragile, you can't put them into harm's way early. You just can't.
"Nothing is so exhilarating in life as to be shot at with no result."
- Winston Churchill
2013/11/29 12:16:02
Subject: 1750 Jy2's Wraithwing Necrons vs ImotekhTheStormlord's Seer Council Deldar (Completed)
hippesthippo wrote: Hit and Runnin on his turn instead of yours early on was a huge error and it cost him the game. Thanks for the report.
Normally yes its a terrible move and if jy2 had focused his shooting on the Council then he maybe could have made him pay for it. The advantage in using Hit and Run in that situation is that you a) force him to get his positioning right to avoid blocking off his own assaults b) jump back enough so that its possible for him to fail a charge and most importantly c) get to use Defensive Grenades (they don't work if you are already locked). When the Council has Fortune its actually a reasonable move more often than not, you are harder to kill with shooting and you basically get another turn of movement out of it.
What cost him the game was that he had no board control - having played a few games with it now I can safely say that the Council can deal with anything, but it can't be everywhere at once. They took the Wraith assault to the face and came out on top, but he ended up with all his scoring units boxed in (very easy when its lengthways deployment) and the Wraiths that slipped passed the Council was enough to disrupt his scoring enough to get the win. It's why I favour multiple units of Jetbikes over Serpents (or at the very least you squeeze a unit of Jetbikes in with any Serpent list) - Serpents die to assault units which can get to them, but are too many points to sacrifice their shooting and the Council can't intercept everything. With Jetbikes you just fly all over the board and avoid everything - essentially you minimise your backfield. I also run Crimson Hunters for the same reason, they are great support firepower but they can be anywhere and cover the lists major weakness against fliers. Going second it was always going to be hard for the Crons to lose against this list - you focus down 3 Serpents and they can just fly in circles all game to grab the win because there aren't enough bodies to box objectives in the Eldar list - which has 700+pts tied up the the Council which can't effect fliers at all.
2013/11/29 13:32:55
Subject: 1750 Jy2's Wraithwing Necrons vs ImotekhTheStormlord's Seer Council Deldar (Completed)
Wraithknight does not need to protect troop choices and it should be used as aggressively as possible. Eldar got Wave Serpents for a reason.
I also think that Tau should play Riptides more aggressively and go after the troops with them or tie up some important aspect of enemy units. For some reason they prefer to sit back and blast away with IA. I feel that HBC brings more benefits.
That said, I don't like the objectives game. It gives too much benefit to certain armies, leaving the rest to try to cope. Last turn objective grabbing sucks, the game should have a chance to end after top turn 5 on a roll of 6. That should give the 2nd goer some worry
2013/11/29 17:18:48
Subject: 1750 Jy2's Wraithwing Necrons vs ImotekhTheStormlord's Seer Council Deldar (Completed)
This game proved to be tougher than I thought. It was actually much closer than the Crushing Victory result would have suggested. It all came down to just 1 LD roll for his spiders. Had he passed, my opponent would have won the Scouring. Then with the Secondary (Scouring), First Blood and Warlord as opposed to my Primary (Purge) and Linebreaker, it would have been a draw. Yes, it was really that close, despite my opponent not getting Fortune, me getting 2nd Turn and the mission objectives. I really don't want to imagine how it would have been had he gotten Fortune.
Then again, what kept it close was probably my inability to roll the dice this game. LOL. I can't believe I lost both Destroyer Lords in challenges against his Farseer with the Shard of Anaris (he Shardsheer). Failing 2 out of 2 2+ saves and then failing both4+ Ever-living rolls. And on top of that, he passed 2 MSS as well! Sigh. The Shardseer definitely deserves to be MVP for William's army. And then I failed to capitalize when my opponent made the mistake of hit-&-running out of combat 1 turn too early. I re-assaulted with my wraiths and should have tore them apart. Instead, I rolled really poorly (would have been a lot of re-rolls had my D-lord still survived) and barely did any damage. Lastly, it took me a while to destroy his vehicles. They should have all probably died 1 turn earlier but because of my mediocre shooting at times, they survived until almost the very end. If I had been able to kill them off earlier, my scythes would have probably flown off the board to deal with his seer council earlier as well.
There was also 2 crucial roll that my opponent failed as well (not counting the roll for his psychic powers, which then would have made it 8 ). The first is that he failed to Hit-&-Run against my last wraith on Turn 4, thus preventing his council from going after my troops on T5. The 2nd, of course, is his spider failing its LD to leave the objective, thus giving me the win. Had he passed either of those rolls, it would have been a different game.
One thing I'm not sure if you had noticed - and no, I'm not talking about the chair - is that I didn't actually do the full-on necron-last-turn-objective grab. I actually dropped off my immortals on Turns 3 and then Turn 4 as well, thus exposing my troops. So in this regard, I played rather unconventionally as a necron player. Why? Because they're immortals and not warriors. It was because they are much more resilient and had better firepower (and because my wraiths were scoring as well) that I risked exposing them. Otherwise, there really isn't much of a point to take immortals over warriors if all you're going to do is leave them in the flyers until Turn 5. With that said, I'm starting to really like the immortals. With the warriors, it's just hide them or keep them in the safety of their transport until Turn 5. With immortals, you can actually play them a little more aggressively. Not only can they contribute to your offense, but they actually take some of the heat off of your wraiths. For once, I was glad that my wraiths were getttng a break as my opponent chose to focus on my immortals instead and the cherry on top was that my immortals survived! Immortals not only give you better resiliency and firepower compared to the warriors, but more importantly, they give your army more tactical flexibility than the warriors do. So I definitely recommend them if you've got the spare points
hippesthippo wrote: Hit and Runnin on his turn instead of yours early on was a huge error and it cost him the game. Thanks for the report.
It was a mistake, but it didn't cost him the game. I didn't really capitalize on it and couldn't do enough damage to make him regret it.
djones520 wrote: I'm noticing a tread with the Eldar armies that you play against JY. Late game staying power.
They seem to dominate early on, and then fall apart towards the end.
hippesthippo wrote: Hit and Runnin on his turn instead of yours early on was a huge error and it cost him the game. Thanks for the report.
I'm pretty new to this army so I would love to know why.
Thanks.
I don't buy it. Your explanation of why you did it seemed pretty sound to me, and I don't see how it cost you anything. Considering he took your bait and recharged, I'd say it worked very well, keeping your backfield clear of wraiths for another turn.
That's the power of necron flyers. By the end of the game, usually my wraiths are depleted and both lords probably dead, but so is most of my opponent's offense. And then they have to take on 3-4 necron flyers....nope, not going to happen. That's the secret to necron staying power. It hits you in waves.
I didn't take any bait. Charging them without Fortune was a given. What my opponent had hoped I would have done as well was to focus my shooting on them. But no, a veteran player like me won't fall for something like that. I'm going to do what I need to do. I don't go after "distraction" chaff like that.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Grant Theft Auto wrote: Alright Jy2 I'm throwing down the gauntlet for a challenge match v.s your necrons! :0 Ooooooo!
Dont' worry, your Deerdar council will get its chance. My crons are equal-opportunist Eldar slayers.
djones520 wrote: I'm noticing a tread with the Eldar armies that you play against JY. Late game staying power.
They seem to dominate early on, and then fall apart towards the end.
I'm pretty new to this army so I would love to know why.
Thanks.
That's just the way the builds go for eldar and tau. The scoring troops are the most fragile and unthreatening units in either codex. You spend alot of points buffing everything else to smash face as quickly as you can, usually things that can shred troops first and then you are forced to wipe out their troops. JY2 doesn't seem to suffer from this as much because he takes troops that are multiwound bases with 2+/5++/5-up FnP, come in large fearless blocks (until shot up enough), or troops that get to hide in Matt Ward's favorite rulebreaking transports...and at which time they do come down in their little transport rules breaking ways, they have to pretty much be shot off the board to a man, or they'll get right back up all the while backed by Ld10. He also goes second a crazy amount of times. Why this matters is because going 1st means you have to weather at least one turn of shooting per scoring objective that your opponent doesn't HAVE to. You gotta give it to him as an army commander, he always notes when he's going 1st and he hardly ever deviates from spilling out enemy scoring troops pre-turn5. It's just that important to start mowing down those troops to either wipe/break/shoot them off an objective.
You'll also note in some of his batreps that it's second nature for him to ignore non-scoring units even if they are internet fanboy units. Riptides are nasty but in an objective based game that doesn't need to worry about a riptide's potential killing power or bonus movement, he ignores them. Same with Dreadknights/Hive Tyrants (non-warlord)...if they don't need to die, they are ignored until everything else that needs to be killed are removed from the board. Tau and Eldar currently have a love affair with these big MCs all of the sudden. They don't really do that good of a job protecting troop choices.
So what do Tau and Eldar have to protect troop choices? Pricey vehicles and reserves. At least Eldar versions are killy, Tau transports are borderline terribad. Some Tau are still using troop choices to bubble wrap and protect other scoring units, or worse, non-scoring stationary units! This helps JY2 hunt them down. Now reserves are where it gets interesting. When people start to take more Warlord traits from the BRB to boost their rolls, take kroot hounds, take scryers gaze (farseers), or comlinks in their ADLs, then those reserve games will start balancing out alot better. You'll be able to push units back even further into the game. Yes, it's alot more dangerous with less units/threats on the board but when your troops are so fragile, you can't put them into harm's way early. You just can't.
Yup.
Whereas I can't do much against the seer council, my night scythes are great at picking off jetbikes who try to hide. That's why necrons have slightly better staying power.... because their troops have more staying power.
Also, just a note to the eldar players, but if you are thinking about running a jetbike reserves-heavy list, you should seriously consider bringing an autarch. I just love running a Laughtarch with jetbike, laser lance, fusion and the Mantle. But I can see why seer council builds can't afford to take one. Oh well, can't have everything go their way.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/11/29 17:46:30
Whereas I can't do much against the seer council, my night scythes are great at picking off jetbikes who try to hide. That's why necrons have slightly better staying power.... because their troops have more staying power.
Also, just a note to the eldar players, but if you are thinking about running a jetbike reserves-heavy list, you should seriously consider bringing an autarch. I just love running a Laughtarch with jetbike, laser lance, fusion and the Mantle. But I can see why seer council builds can't afford to take one. Oh well, can't have everything go their way.
While you lose out on the fun stuff you can do with the Mantle Autarch you can replicate the exact same thing with a Communion Inquisitor for 64pts (+ bring 3 Servo Skulls to block Sisters and other nasty Scout moves from getting at the Council). Then add a Bastion with Comms Relay + 3 HB Servitors and 2 Acolytes (to fire the automated HB) and you have almost best control over reserves you can get (if you get Fortune early you can go for Scriers Gaze if you are feeling paranoid) - and vitally you have a place to hide the Jetbikes out of LOS of fliers for a turn as well.
Thinking about it I don't actually think that Fortune changes this matchup much - the Eldar list doesn't have the right tools to deal with all 3 elements of the Necron list at once (Wraiths, Barges, fliers/troops). Fortune lets it deal with the Wraiths pretty reliably - but as soon as a couple of Wraiths sneak passed them + the Barges get a couple of good rounds of shooting those Serpents go down and then you can't stop the fliers.
2013/11/29 23:26:13
Subject: 1750 Jy2's Wraithwing Necrons vs ImotekhTheStormlord's Seer Council Deldar (Completed)
Nice to see Necrons yet again pull off another victory from Eldar/Tau. Very Well played!
I'm not sure if this has been asked, so I apologize if I missed it, what made you consider trying out the Immortals in this game instead of Warriors? I have to say, seeing your other BR when you said Immortals I had to do a double take and go, "Wait what?" Was it the AP4 you were going after, or some other reason?
2013/11/30 04:20:00
Subject: 1750 Jy2's Wraithwing Necrons vs ImotekhTheStormlord's Seer Council Deldar (Completed)
KelCJ wrote: Nice to see Necrons yet again pull off another victory from Eldar/Tau. Very Well played!
I'm not sure if this has been asked, so I apologize if I missed it, what made you consider trying out the Immortals in this game instead of Warriors? I have to say, seeing your other BR when you said Immortals I had to do a double take and go, "Wait what?" Was it the AP4 you were going after, or some other reason?
I'm not JY2 but i think he credited giving them another go at it since their 3+ save was signifiant as well as their Str5 shots.
"Nothing is so exhilarating in life as to be shot at with no result."
- Winston Churchill
2013/12/02 00:48:44
Subject: 1750 Jy2's Wraithwing Necrons vs ImotekhTheStormlord's Seer Council Deldar (Completed)
Whereas I can't do much against the seer council, my night scythes are great at picking off jetbikes who try to hide. That's why necrons have slightly better staying power.... because their troops have more staying power.
Also, just a note to the eldar players, but if you are thinking about running a jetbike reserves-heavy list, you should seriously consider bringing an autarch. I just love running a Laughtarch with jetbike, laser lance, fusion and the Mantle. But I can see why seer council builds can't afford to take one. Oh well, can't have everything go their way.
While you lose out on the fun stuff you can do with the Mantle Autarch you can replicate the exact same thing with a Communion Inquisitor for 64pts (+ bring 3 Servo Skulls to block Sisters and other nasty Scout moves from getting at the Council). Then add a Bastion with Comms Relay + 3 HB Servitors and 2 Acolytes (to fire the automated HB) and you have almost best control over reserves you can get (if you get Fortune early you can go for Scriers Gaze if you are feeling paranoid) - and vitally you have a place to hide the Jetbikes out of LOS of fliers for a turn as well.
Thinking about it I don't actually think that Fortune changes this matchup much - the Eldar list doesn't have the right tools to deal with all 3 elements of the Necron list at once (Wraiths, Barges, fliers/troops). Fortune lets it deal with the Wraiths pretty reliably - but as soon as a couple of Wraiths sneak passed them + the Barges get a couple of good rounds of shooting those Serpents go down and then you can't stop the fliers.
Interesting. Didn't really consider allying inquisitors to an eldar force. These types of allies are going to change the dynamics of the games a lot. That's another monkey wrench in a meta-game full of monkey wrenches already.
The only thing Fortune probably would have changed in this game was my strategy. Without Fortune....kill his seer council and then kill the rest of the army. With Fortune, kill the rest of his army and deal with the council when they break up to contest.
KelCJ wrote: Nice to see Necrons yet again pull off another victory from Eldar/Tau. Very Well played!
I'm not sure if this has been asked, so I apologize if I missed it, what made you consider trying out the Immortals in this game instead of Warriors? I have to say, seeing your other BR when you said Immortals I had to do a double take and go, "Wait what?" Was it the AP4 you were going after, or some other reason?
It was due to my previous game, where I tried out immortals in my Orkcron list against Taudar. They were what won me the game and were my MVP's. Thus, I wanted to try them out in my more competitive list to see if it has a place for them. After their last performance against the Tau, they at the very least deserved a shot to see if they could make it to the varsity team.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2013/12/02 00:52:59
Yowza that was close!
Called that there were some easy VPs from the Dark Eldar, but man even without fortune, a real nail biter...
Does this mean I'm not crazy any more for taking Immortals? o.O
Bedouin Dynasty: 10000 pts
The Silver Lances: 4000 pts
The Custodes Winter Watch 4000 pts
MajorStoffer wrote:
...
Sternguard though, those guys are all about kicking ass. They'd chew bubble gum as well, but bubble gum is heretical. Only tau chew gum.
2013/12/02 15:38:24
Subject: 1750 Jy2's Wraithwing Necrons vs ImotekhTheStormlord's Seer Council Deldar (Completed)
Yeah, due to some bad dice by me, it turned out much closer than I had originally thought, given the missions, who went 2nd and the fact that my opponent failed to get Fortune.
Immortals were never bad. It all really depended on what you wanted to do with the list. Most competitive builds didn't really need their troops to do anything but drop down on an objective on Turn 5. Hence, there was no real need to pay for the "extras" that immortals brought. However, for a more troop-centric build - a necron army where you are looking to get more out of your troops - then immortals are actually pretty darn good. One thing they do give you is a little more tactical flexibility than just plain warriors.
Council players are going to realize that the DE multiple vehicles are a liability soon you can't reasonably get turn 2 rerolls since your council always turbo boosts out of range turn one.
The lists that I'm currently working with is as follows
Baron
Shard Seer spear
Seer Spear
8 warlocks 5 spears
5 warriors in venom 2nd cannon trophies
5x 3 jetbikes
2x wraithknights
3x vaul's shadoweavers.
To fight against necron scoring eldar players are going to have to adapt to extreme hiding and scooting tactics with jetbikes en masse.
I do agree entirely though that necron has the best scoring in the game, going 1st against necrons is an entirely uphill battle for any army. Even if you manage to wipe out all of the barges wraiths and lords you still haven't touched the scoring which has the ability to drop almost anywhere on the board.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/12/02 18:40:47
.....Bay Area Open GT 2013 - Best Tyranids 
.....LVO GT 2014 Team Tournament - Best Generals
13000
12000
I can't believe I lost both Destroyer Lords in challenges against his Farseer with the Shard of Anaris (he Shardsheer). Failing 2 out of 2 2+ saves and then failing both4+ Ever-living rolls. And on top of that, he passed 2 
4000 pts
