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Libby w/ ML2 force axe, bike- 120 (black knights)
Libby w/ ML2, force axe, bike- 120 (black knights)
Libby w/ ML2 force axe, bike- 120 (command squad)
Libby w/ ML2 force axe, bike- 120 (command squad)
RW command squad w/ Banner of fortitude, RW GL, champion- 235
RW command squad w/ champion, RW GL, RW company standard- 165
5 man Raven wing bike squadron w/ 2 meltas- 154
5 man Raven wing bike squadron w/ 2 meltas- 154
5 man Raven wing bike squadron w/ 2 meltas- 154
5 man Raven wing bike squadron w/ 2 meltas- 154
10 black knight w/ 3 GLs , melta bombs- 425
RW darkshroud- 80


The idea is to keep the command squads close to the black knight unit to give them FnP and support. 2 libbys (if not all) ride with the black knights. others with the command squad.

as with the other SM "deathstars" its dependent on not getting screwed with the power rolls. which is why I went with redundancy of multiple psykers. if anyone has other ideas let me know!

My 2p, attack bikes are nearly mandatory in ravenwing forces.

usually I agree with you. but my troop bikes will most likely not be focused allowing them to get into range. (with a 24" first turn move and a 12" move after that shouldn't be to hard) and all my other bikes have rending.

Couple of ideas for your list...

First, you want more Corvus Hammers swinging then anything....get rid of the of RW Champions (horrible unit) (+10pts). The Darkshroud is awesome....do not get me wrong....I like it but everything these days ignore cover. I personally, will not be bringing one anymore anytime soon (+80pts). I would also get rid of one Libby (+120pts) and swap him for a Chappy w/PFG (-150pts) for a dedicated CC Black Knight unit and give the other three Libby's PFGs (-90pts). additionally, you do not want your bikes bunched up all together....lose the BoF (85pts) and get both command squads their own Apoth (-60pts) for better survivability as they won't be the primary target. I would split your 10man Black Knight squadron into two....I strongly believe that 5-6 Black Knights is powerful enough and anything over that is a waste of dice that could be utilized on a seperate unit in CC. Stick the three Libby's in one Command Squad and both Black Knight squadrons and the Chappy can go with the other Command Squad. I believe that the points all equal out to 2000pts. I hope this might help out little.

P.S. Bikes are suppose to be coming at their targets from all angles not just up front and personal. This causes your opponent to really think about where to fire and who to fire at...blast weapons won't be as much a problem is you spread your forces.

Mr. Raynor

I was going to have a command squads moving up the middle (with the BoF close enough to the black knights to give them FnP) the troop bikes would approach from a separate angle from the Black knights. (troops would be closer to the RW banner for the free hit and run when I want it)

the champions are there to accept challenges that would potentially kill the libs while allowing them to swing there axes.

also, I have always found that overkill, is MUCH better than -no kill- redundancy. I need no chap as prescience allows to reroll melee to hits anyway. also PFG worry me due to the fact they give enemy models a 4++. I would rather put money on getting forewarning on ONE of my 4 libs lol. with a command squad and the Black Knight unit on one flank and the other bikes on the other I believe there would be plenty of threat potential across the board. (I take the BoF JUST for the black knight squad. since there is no other way to get it for them. ) I would never take the darkshroud vs chaos or tau, otherwise, I like it. I had considered a lot of what you suggested before. though with the free points from the darkshroud I would most likely beef up the Sgts in my RW troops. (or drop a libby for sammy)

Oh sh*t...I didn't even notice that. Your list is completely illegal! You have not troops at all....

Ok, I didn't think about what you had replied with and honestly it makes a lot of sense except the big unit of 10 BKs. At 18" you are getting 10 TL Plasma shots...at half you are getting 20" TL Plasma shots. What are you going to charge after you shoot that volley of Str 7 AP 2? In most cases not much of anything. Your BKs need to get into CC and then stay in CC to Hit n' Run...if nothing remains then you can not Hit n' Run getting you from CC to CC much slower than normal. Again, fix the troops problem and your list is solid....good luck against drakes!

Mr. Raynor

Malik_Raynor wrote:
.good luck against drakes!

Mr. Raynor

DONT REMIND ME >.< lol. (heres to hoping for 3 forewarnings on the libbies!) lol

and thanks, I forgot that just taking an HQ choice on a bike doesn't open the bikes up as troops >.> (to much C:SM) ; ah well. guess I will drop a libby and the darkshroud for sammeal.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
if you shoot something, and wipe it during shooting. can you charge something else? I have honestly never had that come up lol. that being said, even then I cannot trust for 2 libs with forwarning to give 2 squads an invuln. While I could go for PFG libs, I once again am worried about handing out 4++ to enemy in CC. I will consider that though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sammeal-200 (warlord, w/ black knights)
Libby w/ ML2 force axe, bike- 120 (black knights)
Libby w/ ML2, force axe, bike- 120 (black knights)
Libby w/ ML2 force axe, bike- 120 (command squad)
RW command squad w/ Banner of fortitude, RW GL, champion- 235
RW command squad w/ champion, RW GL, RW company standard- 165
5 man Raven wing bike squadron w/ 2 meltas- 154
5 man Raven wing bike squadron w/ 2 meltas- 154
5 man Raven wing bike squadron w/ 2 meltas- 154
5 man Raven wing bike squadron w/ 2 meltas- 154
10 black knight w/ 3 GLs , melta bombs- 425

I suppose you're using the double force chart for this right?
Anyway, as stated before, i think the RW Champions are worthless, even for 5 points.
Also the black knights unit...remove a man, you can still have 3 GLs, and usually that last men is uber-overkill in melee or overkill in shooting.
I think the attack bike is usually worth the points, even more is taken with MM on it.

There's a thing i don't understand, as you wrote it, Sammy, and two libbys will go with the knights right? that is too much of a target to anyone to let them pass even a single turn, so most of the time, if someone see a target like that will usually shot at it everything they got, and even with the 4+ cover, (4++ for sammy) and FNP it isn't going to last much i'm afraid

Beside this, i think the list could be doing great, as one of the most successfull SM list is the WS one (at least in my experience), sure we don't have the grav guns, but hey! we've got lots of plasma in exchange! (i found plasma more realiable than gravs, even against vehicles, and in this case we got it TL)

well they won't be able to focus fire everything they have, since they will be on a flank, and if they pour there shots into them then the 2 command squads will come into there own :3.

but I do see what your saying.