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Well, first post has been updated with (almost) all the stuff so far, including the stuff here! (TSon Legion Trait has been updated with LoD, and added the w/o Termi for the future)
Worked on the Death Guard legion trait:
Spoiler:
Plague and Putrescence Must take MoN. Models are I3 but gain Feel No Pain. Characters gain the Posion (4+) special rule while in challenges. Plague Marines without Terminator Armour are troops.
The Great Heresy Must take VotLW. Gains Fearless
Also worked on Daemonic Possession:
Spoiler:
The vehicle's Ballistic Skill is reduced to 3. It ignores the effects of Crew Shaken and Crew Stunned results on a roll of a 2+. Embarked units are still effects by these results. The vehicle also gains the Daemon special rule. Roll a D6 each time a unit embarks if the vehicle does not have its full number of hull points. On a roll of a 1, a randomly chosen model from the unit is consumed - remove that model as a casualty with no saves of any kind allowed. The vehicle then recovers one hull point lost earlier in the battle.
AND, taking inspiration from the Decimator, made these Dedication of Chaos (only one that remained the same as the Decimator version is Nurgle, the rest have minor changes or a complete re-write) Also, these may only be purchased for vehicles with Daemonic Possession. (Seem Fair?)
Khorne.......15pts:
Spoiler:
Vehicle gains the Assault Vehicle special rule. Additionally, it gains the Preferred Enemy special rule against all enemies within 24"
Slaanesh.......15pts:
Spoiler:
Vehicle gains the Fast type. Additionally, the vehicle does not suffer the penalty to its Initiative for charging enemies through cover and models charging the vehicle do not gain the bonus Attacks for charging.
Nurgle......25pts:
Spoiler:
The Vehicle gains It Will Not Die. If it already has It Will Not Die, then the dice roll required is improved by 1.
Tzeentch......20pts:
Spoiler:
The vehicle may re-roll all To-Hit rolls of a 1 with its shooting attacks, and gains +1 Invulnerable Save.
STILL unsure on Word Bearer and Iron Warrior Legion Traits, so any help there is appreciated! Does all this look good so far? Too much/not enough?
Thanks for looking! M.K
EDIT: Almost forgot! While I still don't think PE is too powerful for MoK, I've come up with an alternate version, thoughts? MoK:
Spoiler:
Gains +1 Attack. Additionaly, gain the Preferred Enemy special rule against all enemy units within 18"
18" could be changed to 12", but I don't think that's necessary.
This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2013/12/29 09:49:01
2013/12/13 06:38:03
Subject: C:CSM Update - Death Guard Legion Trait, Daemonic Possession and Vehicle Dedication!
The Heldrake should really have its Hades Autocannon twin-linked. That way it can actually hit something.
Also about Slaaneshi vehicles - Why not simply give them fast? That will allow them to move around more freely, and one can actually move the Predator around without losing all it's shots to snap shots. Assault vehicle is more of a Khorne thing if you ask me.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/12/18 00:56:36
2013/12/18 03:32:07
Subject: C:CSM Update - Death Guard Legion Trait, Daemonic Possession and Vehicle Dedication!
Yeah, was thinking about fast, will probably do that.
Also decided to go with the alternate MoK, going to change the vehicle dedication to bring it in line with the change.
2013/12/24 09:38:20
Subject: C:CSM Update - Death Guard Legion Trait, Daemonic Possession and Vehicle Dedication!
I've had an idea on how I want ed to improve this for while now (must pass a Ld test or be forced to issue/accept challenges) but I've been having trouble with the wording...
Hopefully it is clear and makes sense.
Champion of Chaos
Spoiler:
At the start of the Fight sub-phase, before any challengers are issued, a model with the Champion of Chaos special rule must take a Leadership test. If the model passes, it may act normally this assault phase. However, if it fails, it must issue and accept a challenge whenever possible this Assault phase.
If multiple friendly models with the Champion of Chaos special rule a participating in the same combat, even if they are part of different units, do not roll individually for each character. Instead, roll one Leadership test with the lowest leadership value amongst all friendly models with the Champion of Chaos special rule in the same combat. If the test is passed, they may act normally this assault phase. However, if it fails, one of the Champions of Chaos (you chose) must issue and accept a challenge whenever possible this Assault phase.
If a model with the Champion of Chaos special rule slays an enemy character, roll on the Chaos Boon Table.
I was also thinking of adding Rage and Rampage to the Khorne Vehicle dedication... though that is probably too much with PE... I don't really want to remove PE though other wise it would be useless to ranged vehicles, and I want to make Khorne more useful to ranged units (he cares not how the blood flows, only that it does, unless cowardly sorcery is used).
Additionally, I was thinking of changing the IW trait from Tank Hunters, 0-3 Warpsmiths, Havoc Troops to +1 to all armour penetrations rolls, Forgefiends, Maulerfiends, Defilers (& maybe Vindicators?) as Elites, Characters may take Mechatendrils. Would that be acceptable/good? (Far from an expect on IW, hardly know anything about them accept that they are siege experts and have Warsmiths)
Next up in the update will probably be Warlord Traits and the Chaos Boon Table...
Thanks!
M.K
2013/12/29 10:33:08
Subject: Re:C:CSM Update - Death Guard Legion Trait, Daemonic Possession and Vehicle Dedication!
Champion of Chaos At the start of the Fight sub-phase, before any challengers are issued, a model with the Champion of Chaos special rule must take a Leadership test. If the model passes, it may act normally this assault phase. However, if it fails, it must issue and accept a challenge whenever possible this Assault phase.
If multiple friendly models with the Champion of Chaos special rule a participating in the same combat, even if they are part of different units, do not roll individually for each character. Instead, roll one Leadership test with the lowest leadership value amongst all friendly models with the Champion of Chaos special rule in the same combat. If the test is passed, they may act normally this assault phase. However, if it fails, one of the Champions of Chaos (you chose) must issue and accept a challenge whenever possible this Assault phase.
If a model with the Champion of Chaos special rule slays an enemy character, roll on the Chaos Boon Table.
Concerning iron warriors, giving vehicles an invuln save does not sound like a bad idea, lore-wise the legion is based around sturdy siege weaponry.
additionally, reducing the armor value / save value of fortifications by 1 from vehicles fits their army, not sure if these two in conjunction would work well though. It would make them have a more tau sorta feel: sit back and shoot everything...
I personnaly think that Champion of Chaos still lack something.
The LD test is something good, leaving a change to make a decision on your own, and not being forced to it.
But when you think about even so, Champiosn are supposed to constantly fight amongst each others to proof their might and dedication to their Gods, and try to get their favors, yet, they arn't better then an SM in duel...
They need something to reflect this, a bit like Black Templars Sarges and IC gains rerolls and Rending.
Now simply giving them rerolls to hit and Rending could be enough, but maybe something else i dunno...
Also modifying it so that the chars and Champion get to roll after they killed a MC or a Walker(in duel or not), after all having a Soldier destroy/defeat something this huge and strong is worthy of the Gods attention.
For Iron Warriors...
Masters of SIege; all models from the detachement gains the Tank Hunter rule, units with the Masters of Siege rule also reroll Penetration rolls that din't give a Penetrating Hit Versus Buildings and Fortifications.
"Unleash the Iron!" ; In a Iron Warrior Detachement, Walkers with a maximum of 3HP, can be taken has Elites choices AND/OR Heavy Support choices.
" Dark Messiah of the Machines"; Characters of an IW detachement can purchase the Mecatendrils upgrade for +15pts.
Slayer le boucher wrote: Well +1WS isn't that interessting...well Vs WS4 models you get a +1 to hit, but thats it, you don't get much from it.
Maybe give them prefered ennemy.
Could work.
Or we could give them something like:
Slayer of the Dark Gods:
When in a challenge, any Chaos Marine Character (not a cultist character) may re roll one to-hit dice and one to-wound dice. If a Chaos Marine character would cause instant death, but the instant death is prevented by a special rule or item of equipment the receiving model has (such as Eternal Warrior or Adamantium Skull), the wound instead causes two wounds, rather than one.
That may need to be an upgrade for a moderate cost (5-15 pts).
Just saying, taking the last thing us Templars players have to cling to as "our own" and porting it to Chaos would be rather aggravating, at least for me. There's precious little point in playing Templars as is, giving the defining special rule to Chaos would be a kick in the nuts.
For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back.
AlmightyWalrus wrote: Just saying, taking the last thing us Templars players have to cling to as "our own" and porting it to Chaos would be rather aggravating, at least for me. There's precious little point in playing Templars as is, giving the defining special rule to Chaos would be a kick in the nuts.
AlmightyWalrus wrote: Just saying, taking the last thing us Templars players have to cling to as "our own" and porting it to Chaos would be rather aggravating, at least for me. There's precious little point in playing Templars as is, giving the defining special rule to Chaos would be a kick in the nuts.
Join chaos! We have Heldrakes!
And bugger all else :-/
At least you have something...
For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back.
AlmightyWalrus wrote: Just saying, taking the last thing us Templars players have to cling to as "our own" and porting it to Chaos would be rather aggravating, at least for me. There's precious little point in playing Templars as is, giving the defining special rule to Chaos would be a kick in the nuts.
Stormravens, TH.SS termies, Apoticharies, Cm with frakin orbital bombardement, Grav guns, Bikes has troops, PotMS, Centurions with 12 Grav shots and rerolls.
Plus the Duels thing was only for the Champ, not the whole army, and then again, giving Rending and Rerolls to all the Sergeant is a bit ridiculous, you litteraly have Mini-Chaplains in each freakin squads, while we, we die before even getting a chance to make a freakin roll on the Boons table, talk about awesome rules...
So having something similar, while not really emulating it, isn't aggravating, its just how things ought to be.
Slayer le boucher wrote: Stormravens, TH.SS termies, Apoticharies, Cm with frakin orbital bombardement, Grav guns, Bikes has troops, PotMS, Centurions with 12 Grav shots and rerolls.
Plague Marines, Juggerlords, Psykers, Abaddon, Spawn, Noise Marines, Cultists, Obliterators, Daemon Weapons, and above all else not folded into a Codex with a focus on completely different tactics.
Let's be honest, if you wanted to play with anything from the list you mentioned other than Chapter Masters and possibly TH/SS Terminators, why would you ever pick Chapter Tactics: Black Templars? You pick it because you want to play melee, not because you want to play something that's worse than it could be. It's not like Fateweaver counts in favour of CSM. Sure, it's not in the same Codex, but it's more or less the same anyway. Imagine if the Chaos Marks applied to your army instead of per unit. Would you count anything for anyone not playing Death Guard, who'd get T5 on everything?
And I'd gladly trade my "mini-Chaplains", as you put it, that only work in Challenges, for Mark of Khorne, or really anything that'll help my Marines actually do something in CC.
Wouldn't a better solution be to fix the boon table? Throw out stuff like +1BS, let ICs either resist turning into Daemons or at least let them keep their Special Rules and gear, cut out a lot of the rubbish rules (lolfear). If the boon table didn't have so many results, but was something like:
Another option (which can be combined with changing the table) is to simply let every Champion choose to upgrade either WS, S or A by 1 at the start of the game.
And for the record, I don't agree with "normal" Champions being better than SM Sergeants. What the Champion gains in slight experience they lose in discipline and camraderie. Champions in cult troops squads, on the other hand, ought to be better than they are.
For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back.
I love this, especially the Legion of Dust rule. Very elegant solution to the Rubric Marines problem! My only issue is that the Thousand Sons trait shouldn't confer Legion of Dust to the sorcerers.
How about: "All non-character infantry have the Legion of Dust special rule."
Now modify Legion of Dust:
"The roll required To Wound when attacking a model with the Legion of Dust special rule, or a unit where the majority of models have the Legion of Dust special rule, is always equal to the AP of the weapon firing to a minimum of a 6+ and a maximum of a 2+. The weapon's strength is still used to determine Instant Death."
It's functionally the same in most cases, but in challenges or when characters are alone, they won't be any tougher than they should be.
Battlefleet Gothic ships and markers at my store, GrimDarkBits:
@ CalgarsPimpHand: Done! Agreed that it's unfuffy for the characters to have it, don't know why I gave it to them in the first place...
@ Isbjornen: I like that, "Legacy of the Legions", definitely fits.
Ok, Chaos Boons... I had the idea of splitting it into 2 tables, "Powers" and "Mutations"
Basically, whenever you gain a Boon you choose 1 of the 2 tables and roll a 2D6 on it. I was thinking of the following for the tables:
Powers A model may not benefit from the same power twice. If they roll a power they already have, you may re-roll the result. Otherwise, you gain no added effect.
Spoiler:
2. Spawnhood This Champion has been given to many rewards for his body to handle, being transformed into a nightmarish creature instead! The model must take a toughness test. If he fails he suffers a single wound with no saves allowed. If the model would be removed as a causality as a result, instead replace it with a Chaps Spawn. If the Chaos Spawn can not be placed for any reason, then the model is removed as a casualty. The model only counts as killed if this Chaos Spawn is removed as a casualty. The model is now a separate, unengaged, non-scoring unit that retains none of the model's special rules or wargear, excepting it Mark of Chaos and any previous Powers or Mutations it had. If the model was your Warlord, this Chaos Spawn remains your Warlord but loses his Warlord Trait.
3. Witch-eater Warp-spawned powers and their practitioners have no dominion over this champion. When the model or his unit pass a Deny the Witch roll, the enemy Psyker immediately takes a S6 AP2 hit.
4. Icy Aura The champion's body exudes a deathly chill. All enemy models in base contact with the model suffer -1 Initiative. Additionally, all enemy models in base contact at the end of Initiative Step 1 take a Str 3, AP6 hit.
5. Blade of Chaos The champion's favoured weapon is infused with the raw power of the Warp. Choose one of the model's weapons - it now has the Fleshbane special rule.
6. Temporal Distortion Time is altered around the champion. The model has the Fleet special rule
7. Cosmic Fate The champion has a touch of destiny upon him. The model may re-roll failed armour saves
8. Lifetaker The champion's aura ages his foes. The model's Melee attacks have the Instant Death special rule.
9. Shield of Force The Dark gods protect their champion. The model gain the Shrouded special rule.
10. Fragment of Immortality The champion cheats Death. The model has Eternal Warrior.
11. Infinite Power This champion deserves more for his acts than his fellows... Roll another D3+1 times on this table, re-rolling Spawnhood and Dark Apotheosis results.
12. Dark Apotheosis This champion has been granted the highest reward, Daemonhood! the model is transformed into a Daemon Prince. He keeps all his wargear and special rules except any Marks of Chaos he may have had. If he had a Mark of Chaos, he is now a Daemon of the same god. Additionally, if he was your Warlord, this Daemon Prince now is, retaining his Warlord Trait.
Mutations A model may benefit from the same Mutation more than once. Whenever a model rolls the same mutation more than twice, however, he also suffers Spawnhood in addition to the mutation.
Spoiler:
2. Minor Mutation This champion has been gifted with a trivial mutation, an second spleen, an extra toe or similar. No Effect
3. Additional Limb The champion grows an additional limb! The model gains +1 Attack
4. Fiendish Strength Power flows through the champion. The model gains +1 Strength
5. Arcane Occulum A blood-shot eye pushes through his flesh. The model gains +1 Ballistic Skill
6. Ichor Whatever runs through the champion's veins, it most certainly isn't blood... The model has the Ichor Blood Chaos Reward. If they already have Ichor Blood, then it's Strength is improved by 1, to a maximum of 6
7. Venomous The champion's very touch is toxic. The model Melee attacks have the Poisoned special rule. If the model already has the Poisoned special rule, then it is improved by 1.
8. Leathery Hide The champion's skin is harder to penetrate. The model gains +1 Toughness.
9. Flesharmour The champion's flesh bonds with his armour. The model's armour save is improved by 1
10. Bloated The champion's flesh bulges out in clammy rolls. The model is returned to full wounds. If he already has full wounds, he now has +1 Wound.
11. Warp-spawned Heart The champion grows a withered heart in his chest... The model gains the It Will Not Die! special rule.
12. Multiple Mutations! This champion deserves more for his acts than his fellows... Roll another D3+1 times on this table. If you roll Multiple Mutations again, the model suffers Spawnhood. However, they still gain the effects of any other Mutation results.
Thoughts? M.K
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2014/03/21 09:24:49
Why can't the Daemon Prince keep the wargear? It's a bit silly if someone like Khârn gets turned into a Daemon Prince and as a result gets WORSE at killing people.
For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back.
AlmightyWalrus wrote: Why can't the Daemon Prince keep the wargear? It's a bit silly if someone like Khârn gets turned into a Daemon Prince and as a result gets WORSE at killing people.
Rule it so that named Chars cannot become a DP or spawn?
Because there's no way in hell that Nurgle is going to give up Typhus.
Or Khorne give up Kharn.
And if Slaanesh turned Lucius into a spawn, Lucius would become Slaanesh...
