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So this idea came to be in another forum but I am a huge fan of Tau XV25 Stealth Suit but like many Tau players I cannot find a home for a 3-6 Suit team in my Army due to the fact that the XV25 takes up an ELITE slot in the current Tau Force Chart and those are relegated to XV8s and RIPTIDES.

I for one think that XV25 Stealth Suits should be moved out of ELITES and into TROOPS section mostly due to the following facts:

+ only have a single wound,
+ only have 2 choices of weapons
+ only have an option for a single piece of war gear (no signature systems).
+ Like FWs they need to upgrade one of their members to access drones


What do you all think?

I think use a farsight enclave and only run one riptide if you want to run suits.

Stealthsuit troops is something I have wanted for a while. They are also have T3. The only reason I see why that they are not troops is that they have infiltrate, but that's nothing a small small price increase (say 5-10pts) won't fix, and besides, Farsight Conclaves can take Crisis suits as troops. What might be nice is a supplement that allows for stealthsuit troops.

A solid no on my behalf, the stealth and shroud on these things means that all you would need is a aegis line and bounce back and forth over it, ultimately ignoring the ap of most guns, a troops choice with stealth and shroud is far too good in my opinion, even with wave spam

Co'tor Shas wrote:The only reason I see why that they are not troops is that they have infiltrate, but that's nothing a small small price increase (say 5-10pts) won't fix

Kroot are 1/5 the cost of Stealth Suits and have infiltrate. If you increase the cost of Stealth Suits much more, they'll become unplayable.

Formosa wrote:A solid no on my behalf, the stealth and shroud on these things means that all you would need is a aegis line and bounce back and forth over it, ultimately ignoring the ap of most guns, a troops choice with stealth and shroud is far too good in my opinion, even with wave spam

Assuming they always have a 2+ cover save (which is easy to get but not guaranteed), Stealth Suits are still less survivable than marines in most cases. For example:

20 BS 4 bolter shots at Tac Marines: 13.33 hits, 6.66 wounds, 2.22 dead marines (or roughly 31.11 points killed)
20 BS 4 bolter shots at Stealth Suits with a 2+ cover: 13.33 hits, 8.88 wounds, 1.48 dead stealth suits (or roughly 44.44 points killed)

Sure, they're better against low ap weapons. But they're worse against small arms fire, which is way more common. They're also WAY worse against weapons that ignore cover.

Just saying that if you moved Stealth Suits to troops and didn't change anything else, they wouldn't even compete with Fire Warriors or Kroot. I'd still be all for it, just for fun.

Siphen wrote:

Co'tor Shas wrote:The only reason I see why that they are not troops is that they have infiltrate, but that's nothing a small small price increase (say 5-10pts) won't fix

Kroot are 1/5 the cost of Stealth Suits and have infiltrate. If you increase the cost of Stealth Suits much more, they'll become unplayable.

Sorry, I meant to say stealth and shrouded (not sure how I mixed that up). I do agree that they should not increase the price, but it is mostly because they would be complained about constantly. The normal ones cost as much as a unequipped crisis Shas'vre, but unlike crisis suits they have less durability, fewer weapon options, and no as much flexibility on support options. I was not saying that they should be increased, but that that is the reason they were not troops already.

They already cost 30 a piece for that stealth+shrouded combo.

If they cost any more then that, even as troops, they would be outright unplayable.


I'd say the proper place for them is like the Dark Harvest Immortals, troops-but cant be the mandatory troops.
That way they MIGHT see some game other then the random "positional play" people do for fun.

I was thinking about this as well. I personally always take stealth suits because I don't have a riptide.

It should be a rule like take shadowsun and she makes stealth suits troops. I think that might justify her cost as well as making the troops option better.
It's the same as taking a spirit seer in Eldar makes wraithgguard troops which is good.

What about allowing them to be taken as Troops but having the stipulation that they are non-scoring/denial only?

With that you could add that Shadowsun (or another character) allows them to become scoring?

Just wait for another tau supplement, stealthsuit troops is a thing.

ATM 30 ppm so 180 pts for 24 str 5 shots at 18 inches with T3 a 3+ save and stealth and shrouded.

For 180 pts i could get 20 fire warriors 20 shots at 30 inches and 40 shots at 15, T3 4+ save.

For them to work as troops or remain as elites they need to be droped to 20 ppm.

I wish lictors were that good.

This is a little odd, but I always thought XV15s should be able to be troops. They're still being sold, after all, and if I remember rightly they couldn't take wargear in the 3rd Ed. Tau codex, which makes them a bit more like troops

I am against putting Stealth Suits as troops on the principle that if anything describes Elite, it's a special forces team of invisible battlesuits with advanced weapons and special gear.

Now a special character that unlocked them into troops, that I'd be in favor of.

Well if that's the case then everything in a Space Marine army should be "elite". It was always hard for me to imagine a genetically modified superhuman with the best weapons and gear the Imperium has to offer as merely a basic grunt on the same level as your average Guardsmen or Ork boy. Even a lowly tactical Marine is a veteran that's been fighting for more than twice the life span of even the best of the best the Tau have to offer.

On that note I don't think pathfinders belong in "fast attack", either, since they spend most of the game standing still and using flashlights on gak, or running off the table if they haven't been completely wiped out at that point.

In any case, so long as stealth suits are elites, "on principle" or not, you will never see them in games, unless you're playing someone who just started or someone intentionally trying to lose.

 Sidstyler wrote:
Well if that's the case then everything in a Space Marine army should be "elite". It was always hard for me to imagine a genetically modified superhuman with the best weapons and gear the Imperium has to offer as merely a basic grunt on the same level as your average Guardsmen or Ork boy. Even a lowly tactical Marine is a veteran that's been fighting for more than twice the life span of even the best of the best the Tau have to offer.

On that note I don't think pathfinders belong in "fast attack", either, since they spend most of the game standing still and using flashlights on gak, or running off the table if they haven't been completely wiped out at that point.

In any case, so long as stealth suits are elites, "on principle" or not, you will never see them in games, unless you're playing someone who just started or someone intentionally trying to lose.

I actually quite enjoy having 18 stealthsuits in my army, although that same army also has 15 piranhas, so I might just be completely insane

As they are now, I tghink they would be fine as troops, however I'd prefer for them to remain as elites and give them something that makes them a little more exciting, maybe EMP grenades off the top of my head? or an option for EMP weapons instead of their burst cannons, say S2 AP- 12" range assault 1 haywire?

If only they had a HQ which would make them a troop choice..
that would seem fair and possibly then I would take them

Yeah I agree that Shadowsun Should make Stealth Teams troops. I think if you gave them a new weapon and gave them 4+ armor and reduced them to 25p they would make fine troops, just saying.