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With the upcoming release of Stronghold Assault and Escalation suppliment books from GW. I'm starting to wonder if too many suppliments is a good thing for the general gaming of 40K? Take this worst case scenerio.

I'm running a Iyandan / Clan Raukaan Army with a Inquestor HQ attachment with wall of mytar trench as my forification. I will need the following books

40K rulebook
Codex: Eldar
Codex: Lyandan
Codex: Space Marines
Codex: Clan Raukaan
Codex: Inquistion
Stronghold Assault.

Imagine bringing that to a GT?

What is a clan Ruakaan Suppliment? But i know what you mean but its i guess its the whole pay to play thing. Want to have more stuff, pay more money.

It would be much cooler if they do what flames of war does and release cool PDFs with interesting gameplay missions or lists every so often. But oh well.

Never mind did a quick google search

wufai wrote:
With the upcoming release of Stronghold Assault and Escalation suppliment books from GW. I'm starting to wonder if too many suppliments is a good thing for the general gaming of 40K? Take this worst case scenerio.

I'm running a Iyandan / Clan Raukaan Army with a Inquestor HQ attachment with wall of mytar trench as my forification. I will need the following books

40K rulebook
Codex: Eldar
Codex: Lyandan
Codex: Space Marines
Codex: Clan Raukaan
Codex: Inquistion
Stronghold Assault.

Imagine bringing that to a GT?

I love the books, the more the better! Besides, if playing an army at a GT, you should have the books 99% memorized imo.

But you still have to bring the books to GT, you can't just memorise them and expect it to be ok for you to not turn up with the books you need!

Lots of books would be good to play different ways and vary armies/playstyles.
I think it is a good idea if only the price was cheaper or combine the books to have a supplement section where you can use the rules if you want. I would buy some of the supplements if they were cheaper because at $60 a pop thats a lot just for rules.

But I think it lets people play stuff they want to play differently. If they release a kroot/vespid codex (which IS supposed to happen) I would buy it because kroot right now are limited but with a codex running a full on kroot vespid army with new models would be cool.

You don't need the supplements to play Iyaden and Clan Raukaan you know?

Supplements are an optional thing, and the more options we have, the better. I don't consider them necessary to have if you want to collect the specific armies they detail about. Those books don't really contain much in the way of rules though - they are more of background books In my mind.

Just my opinion...

G.A

I like the amount of options available, but I don't like how hard they are to get a hold of, or how little fanfare they're getting from GW. Clan Raukaan is something I heard about months ago and am only seeing now, but it's digital only so I'm not seeing much of it. If more of them got timely physical releases, I think they'd be a lot more visible. I hope GW comes out with some kind of compendiums of the Altar of War missions or what have you though - some sound real interesting, but a book would be far more convenient than my desktop PC or very old iPhone for viewing them.

The only thing I don't like is the fact that a lot of them are digital only. As above, if more of them got physical releases, I'd have a big stack of new GW books. And I'm sure many others would as well.

Agreed. There are way too many supplements now, especially at GW's prices. Every time GW writes a page of rules they publish a new $50 supplement instead of just putting those rules in the codex like they should be. And it only gets worse when you look at C:I and realize just how far below even GW's normal appallingly bad standards for quality control the rules are. For full book price you get some copy/pasted stuff from the GK codex, completely broken balance, and a bunch of mistakes that had to be silently fixed within the first week. It's just way too much money for way too little quality.

Contrast this with FW books, where you have potentially 2-3 books for your army (plus a codex) and they aren't cheap. But at least you're getting a high-quality book for that money, and it feels like more than just a random idea GW had, assembled in 15 minutes, and put up for sale for another easy $50.

I think its great. Bring it on GW.

Funny, when GW releases were static years back people complained...

To much 40K! Scale back GW! Really?

 Byte wrote:
To much 40K! Scale back GW! Really?

No, you're just missing the point. The issue isn't the release schedule itself, it's the fact that we're getting low-quality releases that add half a page of rules to a codex for $50. What people wanted in 5th was a decent schedule of codex updates, each of them including a full army. But instead what we got is a decent schedule of codex updates, each of them including 80% of an army, with the other 20% spread across various "books". Because of this obsessive milking of the supplement cash cow GW's release schedule has exceeded their ability to design and playtest quality products (or at least as close to quality as GW ever gets) and so we're getting $50 garbage.

I really like the idea, though a lot of them are very light on actual new rules and interesting stuff. But perhaps my biggest gripe is that GW picks (IMO of course) the most boring factions to make supplements for. Really Black Legion? Of all the unique flavourful chaos warbands/legions we get the most "vanilla" one.

Give me more xenos too, some cool Dynasties, Kabals, Craftworlds, etc.

Compared to what other companies offer , GW supplements are very poor value for money.IMO.

The latest FoW supplement I bought was the Market garden late war allied supplement.
It had TWENTY THREE army lists and a wealth of background about operation Market garden, all for 2/3 the price of a GW supplement.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Byte wrote:
To much 40K! Scale back GW! Really?

No, you're just missing the point. The issue isn't the release schedule itself, it's the fact that we're getting low-quality releases that add half a page of rules to a codex for $50. What people wanted in 5th was a decent schedule of codex updates, each of them including a full army. But instead what we got is a decent schedule of codex updates, each of them including 80% of an army, with the other 20% spread across various "books". Because of this obsessive milking of the supplement cash cow GW's release schedule has exceeded their ability to design and playtest quality products (or at least as close to quality as GW ever gets) and so we're getting $50 garbage.

I don't know, even FW puts out rehashed rules at an absurd price. Although considering there is the Internet, I don't get why people bellyache over rules so much.

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
I don't know, even FW puts out rehashed rules at an absurd price.

It's not ideal, but that's never going to change when GW insists that updates have to be a for-profit book instead of a free pdf. TBH we're lucky we get as many free FW updates as we do. But at least the FW books feel like a complete product, while the new supplements feel like GW has started selling every random idea someone throws together in an afternoon in a desperate attempt to get their sales numbers up and keep the investors happy this year.

Although considering there is the Internet, I don't get why people bellyache over rules so much.

Because some people play in stores, even (*shudder*) GW stores, where it's generally considered TFG behavior to show up with pirated rules.

Actually, yes. But some supplements like that of Tau might be really useful. I hope the Escalation supplement will be worth the money, too.

I'm ok with Regular Codexes, Supplements, and FW.

This Dataslate stuff is about to push me over the edge though. Especially if they keep up in the same power level....

it's just a concequence of the army you play imo, no different than having to lug around billions of infantry models to play foot guard, or a dozen chimeras to play mech.

Plus many people play in a gaming environment where rulebooks are left around/shared. I know personally that i could leave most of my army book's at my friend's house without him minding.

Wish I'd quit back when the ridiculous Inquizzy dex dropped.

Now its too late, gotta ride this gak show allll the way down

Honestly, I'd like the idea of supplements. Before that, you had the FW IA army lists, like Death Korps, Dread Mob and the like and I like the idea that you can tailor an army to a special faction and it really feels like something a bit different from the core army. So GW releasing supplements with rules to do just that sounds like a good idea on principle, were it not for the horrible way, GW goes about it. Namely:

1. The armies do not feel all that different. Take the Black Legion: It boils down to 3 things: chosen as troops, option to pimp your terminatos (a bit) and a bunch of artefacts. Gee, that TOTALLY should be worth a carpton of money and justifies a book on its own.

2. Quality: Now, I am not a native English speaker but when even I detect simple spelling mistakes every other page I really feel like no-one even bothered to read through this before it got sent off for print.

3. Ballance. I'm not about to bitch about "XYZ is so OP", but when hardly a week or so after a codex is released an errata comes out and fixes holes, errors or has any other major rectifications, someone clearly did not bother to test their stuff (also, #2 applies).

I fear this is a common trend now to release a functional beta and charge the buying customers extra to get their stuff fixed to at least 1.0 version. Same thing happens with company of heroes 2 now - game's barely released but there are allready dozens of new commanders, skins and minor DLCs (with lots of the content being allready in the files at the date of release).
The only conclusion I have here is, that we as customers have to be extremely cautious what and when to buy, because if we just accept it all and jump in on the train we'll never see good products for reasonable prices ever again.

On a minor sidenote: I'm confused about that blood angels digital release. is it the old 2010 codex or a 6th edition supplement/codex?

Yaknow, when it was just supplements like farsight, blank legion, etc. I found it nice.
Inqusition? heck, why not.

But this new formation thing is going too far.

... you could play a vanilla army from its core Codex and decline to add any allies, so at most you need the main book, one Codex and any book you're taking scenarios and missions from. So... three books.

Of course, if you're going all super-specialist and having two allied detachments, a special flavor of SM/Tau/Eldar/Whatever, eleven fliers, six city grids and a specialist mission...

... then, yes, be prepared to lug a library.

wufai wrote:

I'm running a Iyandan / Clan Raukaan Army with a Inquestor HQ attachment with wall of mytar trench as my forification. I will need the following books

40K rulebook
Codex: Eldar
Codex: Lyandan
Codex: Space Marines
Codex: Clan Raukaan
Codex: Inquistion
Stronghold Assault.

Imagine bringing that to a GT?

Aren't you limited to only one Army Supplement, so allying Clan Raukaan to Iyanden is not legal?

If these supplements were free downloads or $15 books, and not $30+ downloads or $50 books , they'd be more manageable.

Flames of War does not have an issue with dozens of online-only army lists, as they're all free PDF downloads so everyone can access them easily and quickly from just about any device (slow PDF loading notwithstanding).

Flames of War's online releases though also aren't mucking about with fundamental things like FoC's and the like however.

With Escalation and the new Fortifications book coming, on top of allies, supplements, the Inquisition book shennanigans, double FoC's, etc, there's going to be lots of messyness that'll make the "Forgeworld Yes/No" debate look smalltime.

 BoomWolf wrote:
Yaknow, when it was just supplements like farsight, blank legion, etc. I found it nice.
Inqusition? heck, why not.

But this new formation thing is going too far.

What you don't like the idea of Tau with numerous Tau and Eldar formations, an inquisitorial detachment and allied with space marines? Pssssh hater.


Seriously though, wtf has this game become? To run a tournament now I have to make a banned list just to make it fair, and forget about getting a normal game of 40k in with some of the goobs out there.

 Zagman wrote:

wufai wrote:

I'm running a Iyandan / Clan Raukaan Army with a Inquestor HQ attachment with wall of mytar trench as my forification. I will need the following books

40K rulebook
Codex: Eldar
Codex: Lyandan
Codex: Space Marines
Codex: Clan Raukaan
Codex: Inquistion
Stronghold Assault.

Imagine bringing that to a GT?

Aren't you limited to only one Army Supplement, so allying Clan Raukaan to Iyanden is not legal?

Never heard of the 1 Supplement rule. I've always read supplements can replace the normal army and follows the same allies matrix in the BRB. Even the new Formation Detachments states you can have unlimited numbers of them (within point restrictions) as long as they adhere to the Allies Matrix. Any other restrictions (i.e. Iyanden cannot allow with normal Eldar) are found in the Supplements themselves.

Is it another money grab sure. But does it allow more varied army list builds yes. If you don't like them you don't have to play With them. There is reason to include or not include them into your Local 40k group. I believe it just adds more options of playing the game. You can choose to use it or not use as you desire.

SYKOJAK wrote:
Is it another money grab sure. But does it allow more varied army list builds yes. If you don't like them you don't have to play With them. There is reason to include or not include them into your Local 40k group. I believe it just adds more options of playing the game. You can choose to use it or not use as you desire.

I completely agree with this that it's a choice. However, while these new releases add some great options for army customizations, it also produces a problem for tournament organizers and the communities around programs like Army Builder and Battle Scribe as new updates from different source have to be folded in. Having new codices was fine but the supplements, "rules in the box" fortification kits, and now dataslates for both individual models and new 40k battle formations just adds complexity at a competitive level that could turn ugly quickly.

Hopefully things will not be too crazy this month but I have a feeling that there's going to be a lot of updated digital releases.

Optional options are optional.

Hey everyone. Thanks for posting!

I just want to add a bit more to this Topic. If those of you agree fast pace supplimets and rules books are ok, How to you feel about the newest GW digital rules?

GW starting from December will release a digital book every day until Dec 25, the digital release will include 1 random character from any of the 40K codex. It will include background information of said character and rules/points for this character. The first release is be'lakor, the first demon prince.

So, would you as a player be buying these digital suppliments to play 40K? will it be acceptable in a GT? will you allow your opponite to use these rules?