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wufai wrote:

So, would you as a player be buying these digital suppliments to play 40K? will it be acceptable in a GT? will you allow your opponite to use these rules?

If one comes out for the armies I play, I'll probably spend the $4-6 (USD) to buy the dataslates. I have no issue with my Opponent using the rules either as long as they HAVE the rules to show me if I have any questions.

Also not every digital release will coincide with a model release. For example, today's Tau formation and Thursday's Storm Wing formation coincide with box sets that already exist. Tomorrow's Tactics book is just on the Riptide but I don't know if that has new rules as well or not (i actually hope it doesn't).

Bear in mid too. I will bet that after the holidays, they could very well release a "Compendium" to add in all these extra rules all at once. That is my hope, I would rather purchase them that way then these little tid-bits.

If they added a compendium after the holiday's to incorporate it then I could see this making a little more since

If IG get something, I might see what it is about. 4chan will have the details, and if it looks like something I might want to try, I'll grab it.

Am I the ONLY person who can remember GW plc saying they were moving away from multiple small release game supplements ,(free in WD/compendiums etc, ) as it made the game a massive headache, with all the books , and optional lists cluttering and confusing the games tables and players.

And in a bid to simplify the system they would just stick to single codex releases with all useful options included, and keep this as the ONLY source of reference until the new edition came out. (EG set everything in stone for years at a time, as this was seen as better to make the game more approachable, if more restricted.)
And they used this as the reason they would NOT do free PDF updates to stick over codex 'erratas'.

Now GW are desperate for cash they are selling any old tat for as much as they can, as fast as they can throw it out.

No I don't remember this.

Lanrak wrote:
Am I the ONLY person who can remember GW plc saying....

No, you aren't

Lanrak wrote:
Am I the ONLY person who can remember GW plc saying they were moving away from multiple small release game supplements ,(free in WD/compendiums etc, ) as it made the game a massive headache, with all the books , and optional lists cluttering and confusing the games tables and players.

And in a bid to simplify the system they would just stick to single codex releases with all useful options included, and keep this as the ONLY source of reference until the new edition came out. (EG set everything in stone for years at a time, as this was seen as better to make the game more approachable, if more restricted.)
And they used this as the reason they would NOT do free PDF updates to stick over codex 'erratas'.

Now GW are desperate for cash they are selling any old tat for as much as they can, as fast as they can throw it out.

Quite possible. I think GW is allready crapping their pants because 3D printers will be a real and common thing very soon. Yes, you may not reprint GW models. But then again, why don't you design your own stuff? I've seen on another site 3D models of WW2 tanks in a pretty awesome detailed fashion. Compared to that, the average Rhino is just a dented box. People will make their own designs (in fact, why would an ork player use any vehicle template twice?) and GW wouldn't be able to say a thing because it isn't even their design. Maybe they try to cash in as long as they still can because the sales will probably drop in a while.

wufai wrote:
With the upcoming release of Stronghold Assault and Escalation suppliment books from GW. I'm starting to wonder if too many suppliments is a good thing for the general gaming of 40K? Take this worst case scenerio.

I'm running a Iyandan / Clan Raukaan Army with a Inquestor HQ attachment with wall of mytar trench as my forification. I will need the following books

40K rulebook
Codex: Eldar
Codex: Lyandan
Codex: Space Marines
Codex: Clan Raukaan
Codex: Inquistion
Stronghold Assault.

Imagine bringing that to a GT?

Rulebook
C Dark angels
C Space marines

Comes around 740 pages, how many pages are your book list ?

Now, Gentlemen, it could be far, far worse. They could make books for each army and supplement called "Heroes of the 41st Millennium" where they include 5 or so characters with only one of them being worthwhile and 30 pages copy/pasted fluff. And of course battle missions but no one ever reads those. They could also make books that add additional wa I'll just stop giving them ideas.

And yes, I agree, it's stupid as hell. Bolt Action players will need one, maybe two books that are nowhere near as padded at GW books are and that's it. Bolt Action manages to be more tactically deep than 40k is despite it having much smaller books.

 TheCustomLime wrote:
Now, Gentlemen, it could be far, far worse. They could make books for each army and supplement called "Heroes of the 41st Millennium" where they include 5 or so characters with only one of them being worthwhile and 30 pages copy/pasted fluff. And of course battle missions but no one ever reads those. They could also make books that add additional wa I'll just stop giving them ideas.

And yes, I agree, it's stupid as hell. Bolt Action players will need one, maybe two books that are nowhere near as padded at GW books are and that's it. Bolt Action manages to be more tactically deep than 40k is despite it having much smaller books.

I like the battle missions.

I find it funny that op reels off a list of options that they've CHOSEN to field and then COMPLAINS that they need to bring books for it. Seriously.

Jamo wrote:
I find it funny that op reels off a list of options that they've CHOSEN to field and then COMPLAINS that they need to bring books for it. Seriously.

Yes, because in a saner world GW would have consolidated all those rules into 1-2 books instead of splitting them up to sell separately.

Ive never even liked space marines having a million books and i hated the splut between csm and daemons. Throwing out a million additiinal 'books' that cost an arm and a leg for pretty much no content just takes the piss and as mentioned above flies right in the face of what gw said about additional books and updates a few years ago (pretty much the only thing gw said that i have agreed with in a while ).

I'm fine with lots of supplements, but make them actually interesting.."ode to black legion"

 ThunderFury 2575 wrote:
I'm fine with lots of supplements, but make them actually interesting.."ode to black legion"

This is pretty much how I feel about it. Also, the OP very specifically tried to create the most convoluted army list possible that would require the most amount of books. While I agree that supplements are stupid, I say this for similar reasons as others have already stated; they suck. They really, really suck. Combine that with their expense, and what's the point? As far as I know, the Iyanden and Farsight supplements are good. But, at their core, all they are is a small number of special rules, a FOC swap, and maybe a new character (the sort of thing that the 5E Space Marine codex did with Chapter Tactics, really, not worthy of a whole book). The concept is solid, but the execution is just terrible. And then, of course, we have the scam that is the Inquisitor book, a straight up copy/paste from the GK codex although they inexplicably removed Inquisitor Valeria (probably because she's a GIIIIRL). The copy/paste job would be okay if not for the fact that they're charging for it. Why not just a PDF on their site? Or even, why not combine a PDF with an encouragement to buy Codex: Grey Knights? Anything other than this!

Escalation and Stronghold Assault are good things. Perfectly acceptable things to make into books. The whole concept of these supplements is a really great idea; imagine if they'd done what everyone thought they would, and combined the crazy number of SM codexes into one, augmented by Supplement: Blood Angels and the like? To be fair, they still might do this, but the execution of supplements has so far been awful and that is disappointing indeed.

EDIT: Furthermore, we never needed extra rules to personalise our armies in the past. Play Ulthwé and take a lot of psykers, for example. Supplements are a great opportunity to create thematic builds that would not otherwise be possible (which is why, I think, the Iyanden and Farsight supplements are supposed to be good). But is there anything that the Iyanden supplement does that couldn't have been included in the Eldar Codex as something similar to Chapter Tactics?

EDIT: Furthermore, we never needed extra rules to personalise our armies in the past.

Chapter Approved, White Dwarf, 3rd edition supplement's such as Craftworlds, Codex: Harliquin, Chaos Campaign, Ork Clan rules...

Ulthwe even had a Personalized list.

Not needed, and phased out (like real Necrons).

EDIT: I started 40k at the end of 4th, so I can't say for sure. Following what I know of how the hobby has progressed, though, it is likely that the things you mentioned were superior to what we're getting now. I actually have a Craftworld Eldar supplement somewhere that a friend gave me, but I haven't read it (and I don't know what it does to differ from the old codex, anyway).

 Frozen Ocean wrote:
Not needed, and phased out (like real Necrons).

Real Necrons? You mean the Original Chapter Approved Necrons? Or going further back, Chaos Androids.

, it is likely that the things you mentioned were superior to what we're getting now

They were, they were a bit more fleshed out, and far cheaper.

I mean "Anything Other Than Tomb Kings In Space".

EDIT: The same friend who gave me the Craftworld supplement also gave me an old Tau codex. I was extremely surprised when I found hobby tips and the like in it. It was catching a glimpse of what the veteran players mention often, and it was sad.

EDIT2: Also, Chaos Androids are a cool concept. There's no reason why humanoid human-sized Daemon Engines couldn't be a thing in modern 40k!

That was anything from 3rd edition. The rules were lacking, but definitely not the hobby community.

wufai wrote:

Imagine bringing that to a GT?

That is why you get the iPad version or e-reader version.

Too many 40K books? Hardly. Try keeping up with Pathfinder RPG releases.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:
Now, Gentlemen, it could be far, far worse. They could make books for each army and supplement called "Heroes of the 41st Millennium" where they include 5 or so characters with only one of them being worthwhile and 30 pages copy/pasted fluff. And of course battle missions but no one ever reads those. They could also make books that add additional wa I'll just stop giving them ideas.

And yes, I agree, it's stupid as hell. Bolt Action players will need one, maybe two books that are nowhere near as padded at GW books are and that's it. Bolt Action manages to be more tactically deep than 40k is despite it having much smaller books.

I like the battle missions.

Okay, some people may read the battle missions but the problem with them is that they charge you $20 (Proportionally speaking) for them. That's the problem with these supplements, really, is that they cost the same as a Codex yet provide a fifth of the content.

Though, like others have mentioned, GW isn't alone in the "We charge you out the rear end for a ton of books" game. The difference is, though, that RPG books are actually full of content. I took a glance at the Farsight supplement awhile back. Does it really have 2 pages devoted to explaining BRB special rules or am I remembering it wrong?

 Peregrine wrote:

Jamo wrote:
I find it funny that op reels off a list of options that they've CHOSEN to field and then COMPLAINS that they need to bring books for it. Seriously.

Yes, because in a saner world GW would have consolidated all those rules into 1-2 books instead of splitting them up to sell separately.

You said it yourself. We don't live in a sane world. We must work with what we are given and adapt our attitude accordingly.

The suggestion of an e reader is perfectly sane. You can purchase one for less than the price of a standard codex. GW data is about 30% cheaper than the hard copy versions. It wouldn't take lOng for the e reader to pay for itself.

Adapt
Improve
Overcome

Except for the people who already invested in hard copies, or had hard copies before the e-book version came out. That and I liked having a solid book to use, instead of having to bring my ipad.

I'm probably just going to end up needing a second case for books alone and leave it in my car and bring a nicely photocopied binder with all the applicable rules to games.

I also find it funny. Two years ago people kept saying GW is a model company first and rules are secondary which is why their release schedule was similar to Marvel Studios, something big every so many months. Now it looks like they did a complete 180, became a rules company because paper is cheap and people have to shell out the cash for new rules. It really seems to be grabbing for every penny since they know most people already have plenty of models.

The more variety the better IMO. As long as GW isn't forcing those books on us, I really like them. I was very pleased with the Clan Raukaan supplement.

 Savageconvoy wrote:
Except for the people who already invested in hard copies, or had hard copies before the e-book version came out. That and I liked having a solid book to use, instead of having to bring my ipad.

I'm probably just going to end up needing a second case for books alone and leave it in my car and bring a nicely photocopied binder with all the applicable rules to games.

I also find it funny. Two years ago people kept saying GW is a model company first and rules are secondary which is why their release schedule was similar to Marvel Studios, something big every so many months. Now it looks like they did a complete 180, became a rules company because paper is cheap and people have to shell out the cash for new rules. It really seems to be grabbing for every penny since they know most people already have plenty of models.

Probably because GW realized we're stupid enough to buy books at double or triple the cost for something that would have put in WD.

 Ravenous D wrote:
Probably because GW realized we're stupid enough to buy books at double or triple the cost for something that would have put in WD.

Well, for certain very loose definitions of "buy".