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So this is an interesting supplement in many ways but it does one thing that has nothing to do with super heavies or gargantuan creatures. It shows clearly that there is no separation between FW and GW materials as some posters were fond of posting.

Having said that I firmly believe that anyone can play by any rules they wish. No FW or no Tau, it makes no difference to me. I am curious though how will the no FW people deal with this supplement? This makes the FW super heavies GW published material...will you call them GW material now or continue to ban them as they are made by and classified as FW?

I apologize in advance if this thread spirals out of control.

On a side note I have no idea how they will balance this so D weapons don't dominate.

What is actually in the book?

and my group is super laxed at 40K so it doesnt bother me but i do enjoy watching this debate lol. People may have tired out about the argument though as this is at least the 3rd one. Granted this is still different though.

I understood it as the d part wouldn't carry over. But I haven't seen it so probably wrong.

I doubt it will make much impact at all really on peoples feelings of legality. Mabye the few that are made by forgeworld will be accepted, but probably on a case by case basis, and anyone that dident like forgeworld before will probably still give the thumbs down to anything not in this specific book.

You know when I will accept any and all forgeworld (and this may have already been done before, I don't keep tracik) When I see forgeworld units being used in a white dwarf battle report, and not just an advertisement. If the company themselves are afraid to field them and open up that can of worms, it dosent show great confidence in their products.

Seriously though, if GW would just use some forgeworld, maybe in their magazine, or in one of the few tourneys they run, or play them in anything in front of real life human beings that shows the whole line as acceptable. Remember forgeworld superheavies have been used for years in apocalypse, and people still shun them as "special circumstance units"

For me it changes little. The guys I play with all are ok with FW with 3 conditions.
1. You must have the book. No print offs np BS like that.
2. It cannot be stamped "experimental". Must be stamped approved.
3. It must be HQ, FA,Troops, Flyer or Heavy slot
I'm actually more eager to see how it wrecks the tourney scene. Talk about a arms race. That'll make for fun times.

lobbywatson wrote:
For me it changes little. The guys I play with all are ok with FW with 3 conditions.
1. You must have the book. No print offs np BS like that.
2. It cannot be stamped "experimental". Must be stamped approved.
3. It must be HQ, FA,Troops, Flyer or Heavy slot
I'm actually more eager to see how it wrecks the tourney scene. Talk about a arms race. That'll make for fun times.

Talk about a arms race.

Hehe, it's funny because the White Dwarf article talking about Escalation and Stronghold Assault is titled, "Arms Race." : D

The last post in the other thread was made about 6 hours ago, and someone feels a need to open yet another one?

I'm beginning to believe this topic warrants its own subforum on dakka ...

ansacs wrote:I apologize in advance if this thread spirals out of control.

This is like kicking someone in the knee and then saying "I'm sorry".

 Lynata wrote:
The last post in the other thread was made about 6 hours ago, and someone feels a need to open yet another one?

I'm beginning to believe this topic warrants its own subforum on dakka ...

Well at least people would see it unlike a sticky?

 Lynata wrote:

ansacs wrote:I apologize in advance if this thread spirals out of control.

This is like kicking someone in the knee and then saying "I'm sorry".

I'd say it's like saying "sorry" then kicking them in the knee as your apologizing before things go bad.

Jimminy Christmas people this is JUST a supplement like Planetstrike, Cities of Death or Spearhead. It means exactly that much.

ClockworkZion wrote:Well at least people would see it unlike a sticky?

The ones who truly have an agency there are bound to visit the other thread anyways. This way it just gets obnoxious.
Although I'd say the same for the fact that apparently dakka is no longer capable of doing without one of these threads every other week now.

ClockworkZion wrote:I'd say it's like saying "sorry" then kicking them in the knee as your apologizing before things go bad.

Not really, the opening post is worded way too provocatively for that. Equating supplemental rules to core armies, then attempting to rub alleged arguments into the opposition's face - this has nothing to do with curiousity, but rather ... hmm, a form of glee, perhaps, in the belief to have (yet again) found some sort of "irrefutable proof" for their position? If it would just be curiosity, he would have asked in the other thread.

Not really. I was not aware that there was another thread talking about this supplement from the FW point of view and I didn't have any particular desire to "rub it in" or belief that this would seem "official" to anyone with set beliefs.

It does clearly show that GW and FW are plenty happy to throw units from one part of the company to the other. There have been people who literally say that FW and GW are entirely different companies under the same parent company (if so this supplement would be a heck of a mess with copyright).

I am fine with locking this thread if there are plenty of them dealing with this I was just curious what the die hard no FW crowd would do? I am fairly certain that there is at least 1 person in the world who would not allow the FW portion of this book but allow the GW portion of this book.

And it is like apologizing AS I slap someone with a glove. No knees involved ;-)

My personal opinion is that current 40k isn't a great tourney game. This just reinforces that.

Which I think is a good thing. Finally, the whole "everyone is overpowered, so noone is" thing will actually apply.

Doesn't hurt that I can build my superheavy out of bits of trash for nothing either =/

It's just a supplement. Like Spearhead, Planet Strike, Cities of Death, etc. In two months pretty much everyone will have forgotten about its existence altogether.

Then again, it would make it easier for people to actually get to use their super heavies, so that's cool.

 Dakkamite wrote:
My personal opinion is that current 40k isn't a great tourney game. This just reinforces that.

Which I think is a good thing. Finally, the whole "everyone is overpowered, so noone is" thing will actually apply.

Doesn't hurt that I can build my superheavy out of bits of trash for nothing either =/

So, in your first sentence you say this makes 40k less suited for tournament play, and in your second sentence you say this makes 40k more balanced.

Okay...

Forge World stuff has been in White Dwarf for years. The Imperial Guard player used a Vulture in a battle report when the Dark Angels book before last was released and it didn't make the blindest bit of difference to the people having this argument.

Probably because the Dark Angels player was so scared of it he blew it out the sky before it even got to shoot anyone.

The rulebook is packed full of pictures of forge world stuff, but nobody cares about that in regards to this argument because it's "just pictures, show me the [i]rule[i]".

You know what's funny? The one subject that could finally get anyone to care about the contents of a WD is the "is FW legal" debate. Now you've just guaranteed that GW will never give the "final answer" people are asking for, just so you'll have to buy WD to see if the "battle report" includes a FW unit!

So there's a Baneblade at my FLGS that's 20% off that I'm getting that totally wasn't influenced by this news...

It appears that they changed the FOC to allow Superheavies in the form of ''Lord of Wars'' units. Any hints, how the modified FOC will look like?

well it says "An amended force organization chart that allows players to choose Lords of War units as part of their standard Warhammer 40,000 armies" so i say if you have the book, you can do it.

Thud wrote:
It's just a supplement. Like Spearhead, Planet Strike, Cities of Death, etc. In two months pretty much everyone will have forgotten about its existence altogether.

Then again, it would make it easier for people to actually get to use their super heavies, so that's cool.

Dunno, just like Forge World, I would expect a "heads-up" before somebody brings a Spearhead formation or a Planet-Strike-Elite Slot or a "Lords of War" Super Heavy. That's the entire debate, no? That Forge World guys keep arguing that Forge World is somehow "more" regular 40K than even GW's Spearhead, Cities of Death, etc.. and somehow doesn't require that kind of "advance courtesy notice" that these kind of books clearly do.

 Zweischneid wrote:

Thud wrote:
It's just a supplement. Like Spearhead, Planet Strike, Cities of Death, etc. In two months pretty much everyone will have forgotten about its existence altogether.

Then again, it would make it easier for people to actually get to use their super heavies, so that's cool.

Dunno, just like Forge World, I would expect a "heads-up" before somebody brings a Spearhead formation or a Planet-Strike-Elite Slot or a "Lords of War" Super Heavy. That's the entire debate, no? That Forge World guys keep arguing that Forge World is somehow "more" regular 40K than even GW's Spearhead, Cities of Death, etc.. and somehow doesn't require that kind of "advance courtesy notice" that these kind of books clearly do.

This is why I'm in a 'wait and see' mode. I want to see how accepted this supplement will actually become before I start buying anything. I don't own any superheavies or FW superheavy stuff as I just won't get any use out of it as it currently stands. However, if the community accepts the supplement and utilizes it, then I'll jump on board. I bought the supplements 'Cities of Death' and 'Planet Strike', yet it generated zero interest where I played, so I'm hesitant to make the purchase.

 cvtuttle wrote:
Jimminy Christmas people this is JUST a supplement like Planetstrike, Cities of Death or Spearhead. It means exactly that much.

Nope. Allowable in all standard 40k games. Codex not supplement. Which means we are currently guinepigging for their inevitable poor shoehorn into 7th of these as standard rules. Oh warmahordes can sell big 150 dollar units for use in regular games??! Surely us, mighty GW can too then! Lets just throw em in, we can copy paste from apocalypse, nobody will even notice!

 Orock wrote:

 cvtuttle wrote:
Jimminy Christmas people this is JUST a supplement like Planetstrike, Cities of Death or Spearhead. It means exactly that much.

Nope. Allowable in all standard 40k games. Codex not supplement.

A Codex IS a (kind of) supplement too. Says it right on my Space Marines Codex too. "A Supplement for Warhammer 40.000"

there is no anti-forgeworld community, just people who think it's polite to inform people that you're using forgeworld beforehand.

The notion that there are people who're radically opposed to forgeworld has been invented by one or two extremists who just like to argue. More or less everyone is open to cool or fluffy forgeworld, as long as they're aware of the rules.

As I said in the other thread, I run Necrons so I say, " Bringeth it biotch!"

As much as I like the idea of getting more use out of the Super Heavies I do have I only plan on using them against someone who also has a super heavy.

xruslanx wrote:
there is no anti-forgeworld community, just people who think it's polite to inform people that you're using forgeworld beforehand.

While I wouldn't call it a "community" such people do exist. Or do you think those who pop up and argue counter to FW (some of which who say they don't think it should be played period) are just elaborate sock puppets? Get real already.

xruslanx wrote:
The notion that there are people who're radically opposed to forgeworld has been invented by one or two extremists who just like to argue. More or less everyone is open to cool or fluffy forgeworld, as long as they're aware of the rules.

You don't understand how strongly someone can be bound to, or by their beliefs then. I mean I argue for FW because of my beliefs that the game should be more open and free for people while I've seen arguments to the contrary due to the way that tournament play has influenced the game. You can claim a great many things about pro-FW players, but this time you're so off the mark you didn't even hit the same wall the target is on.

 Orock wrote:

 cvtuttle wrote:
Jimminy Christmas people this is JUST a supplement like Planetstrike, Cities of Death or Spearhead. It means exactly that much.

Nope. Allowable in all standard 40k games. Codex not supplement. Which means we are currently guinepigging for their inevitable poor shoehorn into 7th of these as standard rules. Oh warmahordes can sell big 150 dollar units for use in regular games??! Surely us, mighty GW can too then! Lets just throw em in, we can copy paste from apocalypse, nobody will even notice!

Your argument is completely invalid.

Where does this say it is a codex? This is from White Dwarf...

"Warhammer 40,000: Escalation is an expansion
for Warhammer 40,000 that brings the unfettered
fury of Super-heavy war machines and gargantuan
creatures to the gaming table in a whole new
context. Within the 96-page hardback book you’ll
find everything you need to use 16 Lords of War
in your Warhammer 40,000 army, each of which
is either a Super-heavy tank, flyer or walker,
such as a Baneblade, Khorne Lord of Skulls or
Thunderhawk, or a gargantuan creature, such as
a Tyranid Harridan, with a datasheet containing
the full rules and points values for each.

As well as a swathe of datasheets for your models,
there are also 11 scenarios to use them in.
Warhammer 40,000 Escalation includes eight Altar
of War missions that you can roll for instead of
the Eternal War missions in the main Warhammer
40,000 rulebook and three Gauntlet Challenge
Missions, which showcase the destructive
potential of these Lords of War with missions such
as Dead City Rampage and When Titans Clash."

Here is the link to where it is being sold... Where does it say Codex?

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?prodId=prod2330053a

This is simply another way to enjoy playing 40k. No one is forcing people to use it.

Lords of War appeared in the Horus Heresy books by Forgeworld. If the Lords of War are similar then the main restriction is that the Lords of War cannot account for more than 25% of the total points of the army. So escalation probably isn't meant to be played below 2000 points. It sounds like it might be a fun expansion but it is still just an expansion.

 cvtuttle wrote:

 Orock wrote:

 cvtuttle wrote:
Jimminy Christmas people this is JUST a supplement like Planetstrike, Cities of Death or Spearhead. It means exactly that much.

Nope. Allowable in all standard 40k games. Codex not supplement. Which means we are currently guinepigging for their inevitable poor shoehorn into 7th of these as standard rules. Oh warmahordes can sell big 150 dollar units for use in regular games??! Surely us, mighty GW can too then! Lets just throw em in, we can copy paste from apocalypse, nobody will even notice!

Your argument is completely invalid.

Where does this say it is a codex? This is from White Dwarf...

"Warhammer 40,000: Escalation is an expansion
for Warhammer 40,000 that brings the unfettered
fury of Super-heavy war machines and gargantuan
creatures to the gaming table in a whole new
context. Within the 96-page hardback book you’ll
find everything you need to use 16 Lords of War
in your Warhammer 40,000 army, each of which
is either a Super-heavy tank, flyer or walker,
such as a Baneblade, Khorne Lord of Skulls or
Thunderhawk, or a gargantuan creature, such as
a Tyranid Harridan, with a datasheet containing
the full rules and points values for each.

As well as a swathe of datasheets for your models,
there are also 11 scenarios to use them in.
Warhammer 40,000 Escalation includes eight Altar
of War missions that you can roll for instead of
the Eternal War missions in the main Warhammer
40,000 rulebook and three Gauntlet Challenge
Missions, which showcase the destructive
potential of these Lords of War with missions such
as Dead City Rampage and When Titans Clash."

Here is the link to where it is being sold... Where does it say Codex?

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?prodId=prod2330053a

This is simply another way to enjoy playing 40k. No one is forcing people to use it.

It said "codex" on the leaked release list.

So now a leaked release list trumps what is printed on the actual book?

Come on guys. Stop Chicken Littling the crap out of what is just a freakin supplement.

 cvtuttle wrote:
So now a leaked release list trumps what is printed on the actual book?

Come on guys. Stop Chicken Littling the crap out of what is just a freakin supplement.

I never claimed such a thing, just saying where it was mentioned as a codex.