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2013/12/02 18:58:48
Subject: Re:Belakor individual characgter, very cool
Nakor The BlueRider wrote: This isn't good, GW is going down the Micro transaction route & we all know how well that is being received by the computer game crowd.
As for the rules, its alright, knowing all the Telepathy powers is pretty broken to be fair.
Not really sure what you're trying to imply here. The micro-transaction model has proven stunningly successful for both players and studios of MMOs and other video games.
Only if the game is free, this game costs like $100 bucks to even start let alone the models themselves.
Also, most games that make you "buy" rules are normally poor quality games, or aka "pay to win" games, I don't think the gamer community really liked that...
It makes money alright but doesn't equate to a good game.
xruslanx wrote: oh okay so you just want new rules for free. I gotcha now.
GW is a miniatures company. Make rules for models and people will buy models. Charging $4 for a PDF that an undergrad could make in 30 seconds is ridiculous.
It is my understanding that this model already exists, just lacked any rules. When gw start doing this on a large scale and discontinue the codexes, then yeah i'll grab a pitchfork and burn down warhammer world. But this is a single small set of rules for a model. They are charging for it, but really they are optional. Hobbyists will always spend money on pointless crap, that's the point of being a hobbyist. I for one would spend the cost of a pint of beer in return for some new ways of using my toy soldiers.
If you don't feel this way, then that's fine. But an optional micro-transaction doesn't actually affect your hobby, as it is not some sea change in how gw release models and rules.
xruslanx wrote: oh okay so you just want new rules for free. I gotcha now.
GW is a miniatures company. Make rules for models and people will buy models. Charging $4 for a PDF that an undergrad could make in 30 seconds is ridiculous.
It is my understanding that this model already exists, just lacked any rules. When gw start doing this on a large scale and discontinue the codexes, then yeah i'll grab a pitchfork and burn down warhammer world. But this is a single small set of rules for a model. They are charging for it, but really they are optional. Hobbyists will always spend money on pointless crap, that's the point of being a hobbyist. I for one would spend the cost of a pint of beer in return for some new ways of using my toy soldiers.
If you don't feel this way, then that's fine. But an optional micro-transaction doesn't actually affect your hobby, as it is not some sea change in how gw release models and rules.
It actually does for competitive players, it means without paying you probably will be at a disadvantage, yes it won't affect your painting and modelling side to the hobby but sure it will for the gaming aspect of it.
Sasori wrote: lol, 4$ for a characters data sheets. What a joke.
you're right, they should put them in a white dwarf that costs twice the price and makes his rules perminantly unavailable to everyone at the end of the months.
Shhh you're going to derail the hate GW train
Although admittedly 99cents seems more than fair then again the price of the rules and the model is still only like 44 not bad at all for a beat stick like that.
Why don't they just sell the rule sheet with the model?
This DLC idea is a really cool way to get out updates. Before they did it once in a blue moon (i.e. night spinner). Now the company has a bit more incentive to release some rules more often to update an out of date codex.
I've never noticed the model before, and it is really cool. I was in the market for another prince, so I think this one is the winner. He's expensive point wise, but just as much as my nurgle black mace prince.
I think it's a good move by GW, and as a player I'm a fan of it. 4 Bucks is reasonable, and much cheaper than other alternatives would be. Asking for it for free is just not in tune with the times.
2013/12/02 19:56:28
Subject: Re:Belakor individual characgter, very cool
Nakor The BlueRider wrote: This isn't good, GW is going down the Micro transaction route & we all know how well that is being received by the computer game crowd.
As for the rules, its alright, knowing all the Telepathy powers is pretty broken to be fair.
Not really sure what you're trying to imply here. The micro-transaction model has proven stunningly successful for both players and studios of MMOs and other video games.
Only if the game is free, this game costs like $100 bucks to even start let alone the models themselves.
Also, most games that make you "buy" rules are normally poor quality games, or aka "pay to win" games, I don't think the gamer community really liked that...
It makes money alright but doesn't equate to a good game.
There are several subscription MMOs with cash-shops that are well-liked by their players. SW: TOR, Tera and EQ2 being just three examples. All three games, though, do have F2P models as well as subscriptions. Doesn't matter, though, as the cash shops remain popular.
xruslanx wrote: oh okay so you just want new rules for free. I gotcha now.
GW is a miniatures company. Make rules for models and people will buy models. Charging $4 for a PDF that an undergrad could make in 30 seconds is ridiculous.
It is my understanding that this model already exists, just lacked any rules. When gw start doing this on a large scale and discontinue the codexes, then yeah i'll grab a pitchfork and burn down warhammer world. But this is a single small set of rules for a model. They are charging for it, but really they are optional. Hobbyists will always spend money on pointless crap, that's the point of being a hobbyist. I for one would spend the cost of a pint of beer in return for some new ways of using my toy soldiers.
If you don't feel this way, then that's fine. But an optional micro-transaction doesn't actually affect your hobby, as it is not some sea change in how gw release models and rules.
It actually does for competitive players, it means without paying you probably will be at a disadvantage, yes it won't affect your painting and modelling side to the hobby but sure it will for the gaming aspect of it.
This has always been true for competitive players. If you didn't make the jump to GK/SW/Necron/Tau/Eldar/Taudar when they were the hot shizz, then you lost games and suffered competitively for it. This is absolutely no different, and is, to boot, much cheaper than completely changing armies.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/12/02 19:58:43
It is best to be a pessimist. You are usually right and, when you're wrong, you're pleasantly surprised.
2013/12/02 20:09:03
Subject: Re:Belakor individual characgter, very cool
Nakor The BlueRider wrote: This isn't good, GW is going down the Micro transaction route & we all know how well that is being received by the computer game crowd.
As for the rules, its alright, knowing all the Telepathy powers is pretty broken to be fair.
Not really sure what you're trying to imply here. The micro-transaction model has proven stunningly successful for both players and studios of MMOs and other video games.
Only if the game is free, this game costs like $100 bucks to even start let alone the models themselves.
Also, most games that make you "buy" rules are normally poor quality games, or aka "pay to win" games, I don't think the gamer community really liked that...
It makes money alright but doesn't equate to a good game.
There are several subscription MMOs with cash-shops that are well-liked by their players. SW: TOR, Tera and EQ2 being just three examples. All three games, though, do have F2P models as well as subscriptions. Doesn't matter, though, as the cash shops remain popular.
I only see them as free to play not sure what the difference is for F2P and subscription...
But still there's much less of a cost to start playing the game, and they don't need to pay extra to get extra content or updates or patches.
GW costs like $100 to start with rules, and then $200-300 to start even playing a game...
On top of that they don't even patch their rules...
Most of the stuff that they pay for as far as I know is aesthetic, I think people would be super happy if GW sold $4 for a pair of wings or some cool hats or something.
xruslanx wrote: oh okay so you just want new rules for free. I gotcha now.
GW is a miniatures company. Make rules for models and people will buy models. Charging $4 for a PDF that an undergrad could make in 30 seconds is ridiculous.
It is my understanding that this model already exists, just lacked any rules. When gw start doing this on a large scale and discontinue the codexes, then yeah i'll grab a pitchfork and burn down warhammer world. But this is a single small set of rules for a model. They are charging for it, but really they are optional. Hobbyists will always spend money on pointless crap, that's the point of being a hobbyist. I for one would spend the cost of a pint of beer in return for some new ways of using my toy soldiers.
If you don't feel this way, then that's fine. But an optional micro-transaction doesn't actually affect your hobby, as it is not some sea change in how gw release models and rules.
It actually does for competitive players, it means without paying you probably will be at a disadvantage, yes it won't affect your painting and modelling side to the hobby but sure it will for the gaming aspect of it.
This has always been true for competitive players. If you didn't make the jump to GK/SW/Necron/Tau/Eldar/Taudar when they were the hot shizz, then you lost games and suffered competitively for it. This is absolutely no different, and is, to boot, much cheaper than completely changing armies.
Not really, DA, CSM and Daemons weren't that crazy of a codex creep until Tau and Eldar hit, if Nids follows the trend then sure I agree with you.
But still if people already owned the models the cost was only a new codex.
Think of how much this $4 price tag would be if they started charging per unit...
A space marine book could go easily into $120 to even get all the rules... not cool...
And these get updated really quickly too with the current release format.
So your rules go obsolete so quickly...
And if this turns into magic's price tag with this small player base all that's going to happen is the end of this game...
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/12/02 20:10:48
Locrian wrote: I think it's a good move by GW, and as a player I'm a fan of it. 4 Bucks is reasonable, and much cheaper than other alternatives would be. Asking for it for free is just not in tune with the times.
Overcharging for digital media is not in tune with the times. Look at how that went for the music industry. I'm not advocating piracy, but if people don't want to support the company they are far more likely to pirate. In 15-20 minutes you could (not should, but could) download pretty much every codex ever made.
If GW's policies engendered support, people wouldn't be so quick to turn to piracy. As for this rule set, I'd be surprised if pirated copies aren't already available.
Locrian wrote: I think it's a good move by GW, and as a player I'm a fan of it. 4 Bucks is reasonable, and much cheaper than other alternatives would be. Asking for it for free is just not in tune with the times.
Overcharging for digital media is not in tune with the times. Look at how that went for the music industry. I'm not advocating piracy, but if people don't want to support the company they are far more likely to pirate. In 15-20 minutes you could (not should, but could) download pretty much every codex ever made.
If GW's policies engendered support, people wouldn't be so quick to turn to piracy. As for this rule set, I'd be surprised if pirated copies aren't already available.
I gladly still buy DVDs and CDs of those artists I thoroughly wish to support.
I may or may not own pirated copies of such GW books due to my unhappiness at their monopolistic business strategy.
I was particularly impressed by this dataslate. I've always loved the Be'lakor model, and been fascinated by his backstory. I've actually been planning to add him to my
fledgling Black Legion force (with some allied daemons).
At an affordable price, I have wonderful background info that fits neatly into my headcanon, and even includes a cameo from my favourite Space Marines- the Relictors (who form the other part of my Dark Vengeance set).
Heck, the Shadow of the Beast was one of the best short Black Library stories I've read.
Overall, really impressed with this product, and a wonderful return for the First Daemon Prince.
Post scriptorium: As to him being the only Undivided Daemon Prince, what I took from the document was that the Gods were reluctant to repeat this action, not that they haven't. Abaddon is the clear parallel, as the current Undivded Champion, and Archaeon was similarly favoured.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/12/02 22:15:40
2013/12/02 23:39:07
Subject: Re:Belakor individual character, very cool
Then again, anything is possible in the warp so who knows, your fluff is your version of chaos and my fluff is my version of chaos.
Of course, "his" version of the fluff had twenty years of GW writing behind it. The "official" fluff is a couple of years-old retcon.
It is my understanding that this model already exists, just lacked any rules. When gw start doing this on a large scale and discontinue the codexes, then yeah i'll grab a pitchfork and burn down warhammer world. But this is a single small set of rules for a model. They are charging for it, but really they are optional. Hobbyists will always spend money on pointless crap, that's the point of being a hobbyist. I for one would spend the cost of a pint of beer in return for some new ways of using my toy soldiers.
Well, current rules. He had plenty of rules when the model first came out, but GW abandoned ever updating them with the times, but kept selling the model. But there wasn't much reason to buy the model, so they threw together some rules that could have easily been put into each Codex in the first place, and aell them in the same vein as their "supplements".
I expect much more of this when it is successful. There will be less and less of a reason to put rule entries in a codex if they can sell them piecemeal later. It's like an unpolished video game that needs a later paid-for patch to work correctly.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/12/02 23:44:01
"By this point I'm convinced 100% that every single race in the 40k universe have somehow tapped into the ork ability to just have their tech work because they think it should."
CadianXV wrote: Post scriptorium: As to him being the only Undivided Daemon Prince, what I took from the document was that the Gods were reluctant to repeat this action, not that they haven't. Abaddon is the clear parallel, as the current Undivded Champion, and Archaeon was similarly favoured.
This is what I believe is the case as well. The Chaos Gods prefer to have Champions dedicated to themselves so they don't have the same problems as they did with Be'lakor. Perhaps Undivided Daemon Princes aren't so Diva - ish anymore now though
Another 2 examples are Lorgar
As time passed and the atrocities carried out in the name of Lorgar rose to new heights, he was rewarded by his patrons with the gift of daemonhood
.- IA Word Bearers
and Perturabo
The gene-seed captured was sacrificed to the Dark Gods in return for Perturabo`s elevation to Daemon Prince
Pilau Rice wrote: Is that such a hard thing to do this day and age, get up of your ass and go to a shop?
Some of us would prefer to have a physical copy of something rather than an online version.
No you don't, I certainly don't, but why would you need to have a subscription to pick up a single WD magazine? You have to pay to get the Belakor rules, so what's the difference from putting them in a WD. If they actually started doing this, it might make people buy more copies of WD or start taking up subscriptions.
The problem there is that each of the three stores in my area that get WD only get sent a handful of copies. When they did the daemon update with Screamers and Flamers each shop only got two or three copies which sold out ASAP, and GW wouldn't let them order more copies. So players in my area found the handful of people that got their hands on the magazine and we photocopied the rules.
I love having physical copies. I usually print out my ebooks because I hate reading on a screen. I love magazines still. But WD is gak. Pure, nasty, diarrhea gak. It's hardly more than a glossy advertisement that does nothing to inspire me or ad to my game. Vendettas the battle reports are just ads. I've looked at old WD issues and they are filled with tons of information to expand your game. Fluff, hobby articles, tons of useful stuff. If WD was more like Privateer Press No Quarter I would have a subscription. Those magazines are packed with information. Fluff, terrain building, painting articles, new rules, rpg support, actual tactics and more. I don't even really like Warmachine, but I have picked up quite a few issues of their magazine because of their hobby information alone.
5000+ points W/D/L: 10/0/6
4000+ points W/D/L: 7/0/4
1500+ points W/D/L: 16/1/4
2500+ points W/D/L: 0/0/3
