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Does anyone think any of the Forgeworld Tau units (in particular the XV9) are "competitive" (i.e. have a good value for their points in a tournament list)? I'm putting together a list for a tourney next year and toying with some Tau Battlesuits as allies, mostly because I love the models. But I haven't splashed out on any, because the hundred and fifteen or so quid to get three cool suits and the book to go with, without reading the rules for them first seems like a bit of a dice roll.

And then I find myself floating back to the Forgeworld page and drooling at the models. Do the XV9s run in units of three?

Points wise the XV-9s are slightly overpriced in comparison to the XV-8s but they can definitely do a number on your opponents.

If you are interested in running a Battlesuit heavy force, go for it. If you are mostly interested in competitive play, probably not the best use of money.

The XV-9 are not worth it point-wise.
Just too expensive per model, and not give enough in return.

The only tau FW models who are really a "competitive" choice are the Tetra, and Barracuda.
The tetra is just give-and-tank marker units, who are equal in value to drones or pathfinders and only a matter of taste and playstyle.
The Barracuda is a flying Ion Hammerhead, less flexible in firing arcs (due to fixed gun rather then turrent) but slightly more raw firepower, and flying status.

R'myr is...not bad. unfocused, but can contribute in many areas. (drone controller, super-accurate plasma, absorbs assault, etc.)

Remoras can help, as long no pesky AV12 flyers are around. they are NOT a great choice, but they are not outright gimping yourself.

And I just bought Shas'o R'alai as well. not because he's amazing (he's not.) but mainly for this:

Yes. Thought all this... Shame really. Lovely models. Maybe get some of their xv89s to play as xv8s. Can't imagine a tourney having a problem with that. What are the actual rules for them like? R'Alai is a brill model too...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
What does R'Alai do, roughly?

XV89 ARE a regular XV8 these days, the XV89 system has been taken down (fluff-wise, it was detrmined to be ineffective and was replaced by the XV8-04, I liked that part.)

Ralai, roughly, carries a gun with WAY too much power outlet.
He got a regular shot (S5AP6 large blast that ignores cover), who is decent, and 3 special shots (haywire, S9AP3 or S4AP4 rending large blast)
The special shots also shoot twice and gets hot.

On the negative, he can't join squads (only his pair of marker drones), and he has a weird fixed warlod trait (PE: IC. i gak you not.) that, depends on how you read PE working with mixed squads, is either godly or pathetic.

He also packs T5 and a nice invul (4+ , 3+ on range 12" or more)

I like him, but he really doesnt work (being alone and great gun is like having a target on your head)

He sounds like he could be a fun deep strike unit though, no?

On theory, yes. but you really want to pay 190 points for a suicide deepstriker, lethal as he may be?

Hm.... I suppose it is very dependent on how your enemy is set up, but it does force him to change his shape, because he has to do something about it.

But not really. No.If it was S9 large blast x 2 then yes, but that's not what your saying, is it?

The part that makes me cry is that the designs for the XV9s were originally considered for the primary XV8 Crisis design but were somecrazyhow ruled out... Which means some utter moron looked at the choices and said "that clumpy-ass crisis suit design is clearly the best!" and now the infinitely cooler, sexier, more stylish designs of the XV9s have been relegated to the realm of Forgeworld (aka 'unofficial' or 'experimental') rules.

*This information is according to some content of WD 400. (New Tau codex preview)

I guess most people would be happy with you playing XV9 suits as XV8 if they were armed with the appropriate weapons right? They are coos ass models...

Kholzerino wrote:
Hm.... I suppose it is very dependent on how your enemy is set up, but it does force him to change his shape, because he has to do something about it.

But not really. No.If it was S9 large blast x 2 then yes, but that's not what your saying, is it?

The S9AP3 are single-shot, and so are the haywire.

Only the S4AP4 and the S5AP6 are large blasts (the former is 2 blasts, the latter 1.)


The S9AP3 is still great against MC and artillery, and in case you aim at an AV10-11 tank.


Also, the ranges go between 24" (most shots) and 36" (the S9AP3), so deepstriking is not really required, he packs a punch from a fair distance.

The best plan for him, is to find LoS blocking nook that protects from a wide angle around your deployment, and JSJ in and out.

@BoomWolf
I thought the latest version of him made all of his weapons assault 2.

Just put a Manta on the table for the shock value. You can take it off and put your real army on once you're satisfied with your opponent's reaction.

@Nillok - which book?

 Nilok wrote:
@BoomWolf
I thought the latest version of him made all of his weapons assault 2.

IA3 2ED is the latest version.
All his special shots (the ones who gets hot) have 2 shots.
The regular shot, it just calls it a "pulse submunitions rifle", without its own profile, meaning 1 shot like a regular XV9 submunitions.

I think it was a ball dropped (and he WOULD have been great with a double shot on his one that dosent get hot and risk him), but that's how its written.

XV9s look too cool to not use, regardless of how crappy they are. Same with Shadow Spectres.

These kind of units are what FW is all about. Not everything has to be Sabres and R'Varnas. If nothing else, they will at least boost your paint and comp scores.

The new Riptide is easily the most competitive choice from Forgeworld.

Tetras and Barracudas are a good buy but not really needed in competitive play.

For Apoc only the Tigershark AX-10 for the twinlinked D-weapon is of any consideration unless you can actually afford the Manta.

XV-9 Suits are beautiful.

Rules-wise, if you want them with Pulse Submunitions they will wreck orks and horde tyranids, and hurt taudar that rely on 2+ cover saves to survive. They're also super expensive and you can do similar tricks using a riptide with markerlights at AP2.

Phased Ion Guns sound cool, S4 ap4 Rending Assault 4, but again are so expensive that the possibility to get those rending wounds isn't necessarily worth it. For half the cost you can get the same number of shots at the same range using Bladestorm XV8 suits (Burst cannon/Burst cannon).

The decision will ultimately come down to aesthetics. If you like the look of the models, get them and use them. If you want them for killer rules, just leave them on the shelf and stick to Tetras and Barracudas.

I have had great success with PIGs. Fusion Cascades are pretty sweet too for dealing obviously with armor and heavy infantry. Even terminators will fall when you hit them with 6d3 melta shots, better when markerlighted.

I think XV-9s are one of the best uses for tau FA slots.

XV9s are great, especially in a farsight enclaves army. They are more expensive than crisis suits, but they are in the FA slot, and have some amazing weaponry.

And how do you guys use them / arm them?

Kholzerino wrote:
And how do you guys use them / arm them?

Depends. I have three, and I usually outfit them with two different guns (instead of two guns that are the same). Fusions cascades are great at taking out MEQs, TEQs, and lightly armored vehicles (Better than the fusion blaster for 10, 11, and about the same for 12), although the reduced ranged hurts them compared to fusion blasters (regular melta range (12") instead of the fusion blasters extended 18"). Pulse submunition rifles are great against cover dependent, and hoard armies, although they only have AP6, so don't use them against heavily armored targets. The phased ion gun is kind of interesting, bolter strength but one better AP, and the rending helps against MCs and MEQ/TEQs. The twin-linked burst cannons really help in overwatch, and only taking up one slot is nice. I tend to have a bit of each, so they can take on anything. On support systems, Drone controller is cheap but, IMO, not very helpful on them. Advanced targeting system is useful with the phased ion gun, it certainly helps get rid of bubble-wrapped HQs ect. Their is not much use for the early warning override or velocity tracker, unless you are with 18", which doesn't haven all that much. Counterfire defense systems are very useful on the ones with TL burstcannons. Shield generator and stimulant injector are useful for increasing the durability of a unit which tends to get shot up a lot (although them having T5 helps). Positional relay is a waste of space, never get it on them. Target locks are useful, but situational at times, but having it help increase their damage output (I usually give one a target lock). XV9s suffer from drones having less toughness, so I usually run them one drone a piece. The hit and run from their built in vectored retro-thruster allows them to destroy in overwatch, generally survive in combat as long at their are no power weapons, possibly dealing some damage with 2 S5 attacks each, and then jumping out at I4 (with drones) and shooting up the offending unit. They fit in FA, and they combo great with a FE army, and sticking farsight, and some of the eight in a unit of XV9s is very fun. The photon casters further hurt enmities in CC, making them quite a good unit. They cost as much as 2 empty crisis suits however, so you have to weigh that into you thought as well.

 D6Damager wrote:
The new Riptide is easily the most competitive choice from Forgeworld.

New riptide is in "beta" right now. As it is, it is broken even by apoc standards lol. Performs the job of 4 Ionheads and does it way better while being virtually unkillable. It WILL make at least double its points back before it goes down, and thats at the low end of the odds lol. It will be nerfed before becoming official, if they dont then they literally dont pay attention to the populace because everyone is screaming TOO STRONG lol.

As for the rest, Barracuda is probably the only thing from FW i'd ever bring. It evaporates air and can pummel ground afterwords. That being said the only models i DO have are a couple of suits im using as commanders.... random XV89 for a commander with guns and R'myr for a beefy looking iridium commander

 Vineheart01 wrote:

 D6Damager wrote:
The new Riptide is easily the most competitive choice from Forgeworld.

New riptide is in "beta" right now. As it is, it is broken even by apoc standards lol. Performs the job of 4 Ionheads and does it way better while being virtually unkillable. It WILL make at least double its points back before it goes down, and thats at the low end of the odds lol. It will be nerfed before becoming official, if they dont then they literally dont pay attention to the populace because everyone is screaming TOO STRONG lol.

As for the rest, Barracuda is probably the only thing from FW i'd ever bring. It evaporates air and can pummel ground afterwords. That being said the only models i DO have are a couple of suits im using as commanders.... random XV89 for a commander with guns and R'myr for a beefy looking iridium commander

I have been having fun with remora squadrons lately. They are only then points more than a devilfish for a 10/10/10 flyer with shrouded, TL long-barreled burstcannons (double range and 2 extra shots), BS filter built in, and a networked markerlight. They can also come in squadrons of up to five (for up to 15 flyers total), althouygh they can't take vehicle upgrades (not that they need to, although decoy launchers would turn this thing into a beast). It also has something unique, deepstrike, ona a cheap flyer.

I have been having some fun with O'R'alai, but I'm not sure how his warlord trait works.
Edit: Just made a thread sking about this if you know. Thread

Dont forget they got 2 seekers.
But they are having real issues with AV12 fliers, seekers aint that reliable.


As for Ralai, I think it applies if there is any IC in there, otherwise it makes no sense. he is the only IC that ever goes alone. (and not because he wouldn't like an escort, he just CANT.)
Though I DO consider giving him a buddy in the form of an iridium commander. then you can have majority T5 with 2+ save up front, and LoS to a 3++ when AP1-2 aims at you.
Not sure what guns to give him though, part of Ralai's charm is the "I can blow up anything" style, and no gun fits with aiming on just so many things.

 BoomWolf wrote:
Dont forget they got 2 seekers.
But they are having real issues with AV12 fliers, seekers aint that reliable.


As for Ralai, I think it applies if there is any IC in there, otherwise it makes no sense. he is the only IC that ever goes alone. (and not because he wouldn't like an escort, he just CANT.)
Though I DO consider giving him a buddy in the form of an iridium commander. then you can have majority T5 with 2+ save up front, and LoS to a 3++ when AP1-2 aims at you.
Not sure what guns to give him though, part of Ralai's charm is the "I can blow up anything" style, and no gun fits with aiming on just so many things.

I usualy use broadsides to take out flyers in anycase, so no loss to me there. They were made for more of a ground attack craft anyway. Before the new IA book came out they were a flyer with stealth and shrouded that could jink to a 2+ cover save due to a fluke of wording (their rules gave them a stealth field gen. and stealth field generators got changed from unit covering night fighting rules to stealth and shrouding) which made them freakishly hard to kill for a while. The networked markerlights are very usful because they can boost themselves or other people. They are unique in the fact that they are the only squadron in existence that has networked markerlights. Due to the wording I think that that means that (lots of thats!) they could boost all of the squadron mates' BSs to 5+ as well as increase the BS of things shooting at flyers, very good.

R'alai is a troll. He is a single unit that can take out anything from hoards of cover camping guards and nids, to land raiders and monoliths. He can drop 2 Large blast, S4 AP4, rending shots, which is very good against MCs and TEQs and still assault if he wants to. He has what is essentially an assault2 lascannon, with 12" less range. He has a horrifically good EMP shot (still assault2 as well), comes with two marker drones (with BS filters) and a drone controller and a 4++ which is a 3++ against things more than 12" away. He also trolls the players by having one of the weirdest warlord traits in existence, one which can cause contention in every game.

I now want the O'Really model and book. Just sounds like FUN!

I'm very fond of the Remora. They provide other air targets to take AA fire away from your Barracuda, they can shoot most flyers semi well, and - the big one - they have skyfire marker lights.

You can squadron them. They are nimble.

They also are small and on normal skimmer stems, so they get cover saves very easily, which is improved by their stealth characteristics.

I guess marker lights on a flier raise your BS for regular guns shooting, making them twice as likely to hit? That's potentially awesome.

Kholzerino wrote:
I guess marker lights on a flier raise your BS for regular guns shooting, making them twice as likely to hit? That's potentially awesome.

Bingo. Use Remora lights to mark a flyer, then use something huge (Hammerhead) to obliterate it with not-shooting-at-a-flyer BS.