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First off, this is not meant to talk about any one particular release. My question is: do you think warhammer 40k is getting "too many" releases?

Individually, I like most of what I've seen. I'm just worried that before too long, we'll need a dozen books to play a single game. Already, we can take an Imperial Guard army (codex) using a Baneblade (escalation) and forgeworld models (imperial armour) with inquisition support (digital codex), allied to a Chaos Space Marine army (codex) led by Be'Lakor (digital release). This will only become more and more common as we get more mini-codices, individual special character updates, and supplements.

Obviously, no one is saying that we need to buy every release GW puts out. But as someone who likes to know what's in every army, I'm starting to feel overwhelmed. What are your thoughts?

Yep. GW has figured out that it's better to have lots of releases and sell you a codex in several easy payments of $49.99 than to make a codex that includes your entire army. If this "buy a unit for $4" plan succeeds then you can expect a lot more of the same in the future.

Yup, I agree. Its getting pretty silly nowadays.

Kind of a shame. Companies like Spartan Games are releasing their fleet books for Firestorm Armada for free, where you just have to pay for the rulebook.

It's getting a bit much, 40k is going to rival even the bigist RPGs for books soon it feels like it.
And it will make it harder on new players trying to work out what they need to start.

Disagree it is getting silly - but it is getting more spread out. I imagine at some point in the future they will re-sell a compilation book of each of these small things that are coming out.

Quite honest I love it. We play the game a lot around here and enjoy it all. I love that it is constantly changing.

I will admit I would like to see all the rules that are being released in these small supplements to be centralized at some point - but I can wait for that.

I have no complaints, I love it. I got a sisters codex that rocks, My Imperial Fists are loving life. The inquisitor one I haven't messed with in a game yet, but I love the fluff. Haven't cracked Clan Raukaan in a match yet. Biggest part that won me over was all the fluff. So far GW has hit every one of my armies with a supplement or codex.

Releases keep the game fresh and the meta evolving. The information in each new release is available online within hours of its release. I don't see a problem?

If releases like Be'lakor are going to become common, it will be pretty much impossible to keep up. A product like the old Chapter Appeoved compilations would be nice to help keep things straight, if it comes to that.

 tomjoad wrote:
If releases like Be'lakor are going to become common, it will be pretty much impossible to keep up. A product like the old Chapter Appeoved compilations would be nice to help keep things straight, if it comes to that.

Well these are only for Advent, I assume they'll release some sort of compilation rules pack once crimbo is over.

GW decided that game balance (and not prices) has been standing in the way of sales, so it was abandonned and some armies got flyers, anti-air, allies, plastic super heavies, and other armies haven't. It is now a labyrinth of pay to win releases with a flood of no-effort copy-paste products, that last only a few months until you have to pay for the minor update rules. Some people are happy with it, doesn't work for me though.

I'm just glad our GW manager understands how silly the massed amount of expansions are and lets everyone see his store copy whenever they need to so we can enjoy a relaxing game of cities of death or soon to be the new escalation without having to fork over more money to GW greed unless we are playing at one of our buddys houses and need to look up the rules.

EDIT: really bad spelling

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
Releases keep the game fresh and the meta evolving. The information in each new release is available online within hours of its release. I don't see a problem?

Only if the stuff was free then yeah sure whatever.
But having all of these at $4 is just a big no no for me...

In contrast to some, I don't think the sky is falling with these releases. I don't think that there is too much content, though I think that things are a bit sloppy right now. GW is stepping into new territory right now and they're going to make some mistakes before tightening things up. Whether this will come in the form of compilations or some other method, I don't really care to speculate on the specifics.

Economics aside, there is clearly an intent and push to make the game more modular and diverse than it has been in the past. People like options, so GW is giving people more options. We're getting new ways to build armies, new ways to combine armies, new ways to use units, new ways to play the game, and new units themselves.

I don't think that a large volume of books to deal with will be a problem for the average gamer, since everything used is going to be brought to the table by whoever is using these supplements, and you don't need the supplements you don't plan on using. Where the concern seems to lie is with competitive players who want to have as firm a grasp on all options out there and the best way to utilize an increasing number of options. Is this a new problem, though? We've always had a lot of codexes, and either you were already spending a lot of money buying them or you were reading the contents from friends or some other means. If it becomes more of a problem, I expect internet guides and the like to rise in popularity, and I think they'd adequately address the need to know.

Ultimately, I'm positive about these changes. Looking past a few kinks in the system, this expansion of the hobby experience is something I've desired, and that I welcome.

I feel that GWs current release practices are indicating something is going to happen in the future (company sold, game implodes, etc). By the end of next year practically every codex will be updated at this pace - what do they release then? Supplements and special addition books? They are already releasing these in the mix now. The game is spiraling out of control. It is like GW are trying to grab as much cash as possible before the house of cards tumbles down.

Maybe I'm missing something but the long term plan seems unsustainable. Maybe each army will get a codex version 2 in this edition - so 2 years after DA came out they get DA version 2 for 6th edition to bring it up to speed with the latest codex releases and so on - fast cash for GW until players are saturated and don't want to pay any more.

Since I've played in 4th edition, it has been clear that GW does not do things in 40K for the players (that is make a good game where every army is strong - errata the obvioulsy broken/poorly written rules/units).

Flooding the market with fast dex releases (which is a good thing if done right), supplements and expansions, etc, while jacking up the price repeatedly to ridiculous levels (I would never encourage anyone to start this game - I would tell them to run from GW as fast as they could go) does not seem to create a good long term situation for the game/players, IMO.

Waaah, theyre updating my game!

But seriously, all the new content is fantastic.

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
Releases keep the game fresh and the meta evolving. The information in each new release is available online within hours of its release. I don't see a problem?

Problem is that it is almost becoming so fast that by the time you are done an army it has now been invalidated by something better, forcing you to buy more to stay current.

My only issue is the time-gap between the electronic supplements and the hard copies. I prefer hard copies and I don't like waiting 3-4 months to get what the other guy already has in electronic form.

I personally don't feel like the the number or speed of the releases is too much, it's the fact that it's coming from some many different places. It's hard to keep track of what possible Dataslates, supplements, expansions, etc., are available to a player when that information isn't hosted in one place. If they'd just provide a list of what supplements/data slates work with what armies it would be a lot easier to figure all this out.

While I like new content and the speed of updates, and applaud GW for taking a new direction here, the price is absurd for most of these things, and the random and unannounced nature of these releases makes it very difficult to plan for or keep up with such releases.

I can't imagine what being a TO is going to be like next year when it could be entirely possible that a player may show up with a core rulebook, two codex books, two supplement books, an INQ book, the Escalation book, two different Imperial Armour books, and the Stronghold book to run a legal 1750pt army.

Given the olden days of months with no relevant releases, I've been super stoked to see Games Workshop put their production schedule into something like a regular cycle. If anything, I just wish they would put up some relevant FAQs, rather than slow down their releases.

 Ravenous D wrote:

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
Releases keep the game fresh and the meta evolving. The information in each new release is available online within hours of its release. I don't see a problem?

Problem is that it is almost becoming so fast that by the time you are done an army it has now been invalidated by something better, forcing you to buy more to stay current.

Could you please provide an example of this?

I'd like to pull a Rip Van Winkle, go to sleep, wake up when the IG Codex comes out and then try to build my army then.

orkybenji wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
Releases keep the game fresh and the meta evolving. The information in each new release is available online within hours of its release. I don't see a problem?

Problem is that it is almost becoming so fast that by the time you are done an army it has now been invalidated by something better, forcing you to buy more to stay current.

Could you please provide an example of this?

Codex inquisition invalidating white scars against 90% of people.

My only issue with the releases is that they are not all created equal.
Compare the Iyanden, Black Legion, Farsight Enclave, and Inquistion Dex to each other.

You hardly ever hear about Iyanden being used, since it barely offered anything to eldar players they didn't already have, or was more competitive than what they currently fielded.

Chaos, an army book in dire straits, also didn't bat an eye at the release of black legion. It's garbage, there is nothing in there worth taking and it makes the list worse if anything. The only 'upside' (and dear god, this is not an upside for the game as whole, just a power up for the dex) is that you can now field an additional heldrake.

Farsight Enclave has become a common feature, though not a requirement for the game as a whole. It's nice for Tau to be allied to themselves for additional SC's, suits, and a Riptide, but it's arguably not as effective as allying to Eldar or even Marines.

Now Inquisition is almost mandatory in a competitive list. Roughly 50 pts to laugh at infiltration and scouts, not to mention the divination access and the fact it doesn't count as an actual ally, means that you are only handicapping yourself by not buying this supplement.

I posted them in a timeline (roughly) and you will notice they get more competitive as time goes on, from worthless to mandatory. I believe GW has realized that supplements ONLY sell if they are powerful (not like dexes, where people will buy Chaos or Nids dex regardless just to use their armies), so I would expect their power levels to continue to raise the stakes in this game.

Hi as a total novice, who got in to this by liking to paint cool models, I find making the step in to playing a game very daunting. If it were just a rule book and a codex, but now with all the supliments, hows a quy ever going to find his feet before the earth move again.

 Ravenous D wrote:

orkybenji wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
Releases keep the game fresh and the meta evolving. The information in each new release is available online within hours of its release. I don't see a problem?

Problem is that it is almost becoming so fast that by the time you are done an army it has now been invalidated by something better, forcing you to buy more to stay current.

Could you please provide an example of this?

Codex inquisition invalidating white scars against 90% of people.

How so if you don't mind me asking? Because of the divination?

 Ravenous D wrote:

orkybenji wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
Releases keep the game fresh and the meta evolving. The information in each new release is available online within hours of its release. I don't see a problem?

Problem is that it is almost becoming so fast that by the time you are done an army it has now been invalidated by something better, forcing you to buy more to stay current.

Could you please provide an example of this?

Codex inquisition invalidating white scars against 90% of people.

And my Striking Scorpions, though I'll willingly agree that compared to the trials of White Scars players, my problem is nothing. Seriously. For about thirty-something points you can completely invalidate an entire approach to list building.

I never called anything really broken in WH40K before (no, I've never complained about RipTides, et al.). But the Inquisition Codex is terrible! And with upcoming D-weapons in regular 40K probably, that's probably going to be the second thing that makes me want to wring GW's collective necks.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 PandaMango141 wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:

Codex inquisition invalidating white scars against 90% of people.

How so if you don't mind me asking? Because of the divination?

No. Servo Skulls. They cost a few points each and prevent any infiltration and scout moves within range. You can get three per inquisitor and if you space them across the middle of the table before deployment, you can pretty much render White Scar's entire schtick worthless. Other units from other armies, too.

They're good for deep strikes and other things, too. You're going to see inquisitors everywhere soon. Significant force multiplyer if psychic, the skulls have the aforementioned consequences, and the whole bundle costs a pittance.

to be fair, the whole white scars "scout up, oh look I'm in immediate optimum range for everything turn 1" thing probably deserved a bit of a knockback

I'll just add my main objection (other than the power creep which others have noted). In order to really play WH40K properly, you need to know what your opponent can field, what those things can do, etc. Well that's not too bad when there's a handful of army rule books, and if they come out not one every other week. You can learn over time, you can borrow someone's codex for a couple of nights, you can hang out on a forum for a few days and learn... But when there's a constant stream of bitty rules coming from all directions, how are you supposed to know what you might come up against or what you're facing is really capable of? It all starts to turn into a guessing game and that's anathema to strategy fans.

6th edition 40K is already at a point where it matches what people said about the times of 3rd and 4th edition, with too much material required to field armies, when they had WD articles, Chapter Approved compilations, Codexes and Supplemental material to carry around for the game.