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be advised that burna wagons can only move 6" (7" with red paint) and fire. Anything above that means snap shots.

 Agent_Tremolo wrote:

 g0atsticks wrote:

dadakkaest wrote:


Er... after you factor in the Klaw and cybork body, a single Nob biker falls above the 70 points mark. A similar unit like Ravenwing Black Knights (with ap:2 plasma talons, grenades, rending CC weapons and a host of special rules like scouts and skilled rider) costs almost 30 points less apiece. Sure, Nob bikers are not to be taken lightly, but they are also a massive points sink that detracts from the rest of the army, while other factions can take similarly powerful units and still have spare points to invest.

Not sure because I am not too familiar with DA, but do Ravenwing have 2 wounds?

 Jidmah wrote:

dadakkaest wrote:
Okay, pulled up army builder. A warboss, 4 nobz with a power klaw and a painboy all on bikes is 455 points. A similar space marine unit, HQ with power fist on bike, and 6 bikers is substantially less.

First of all, you're building the unit wrong. There is no reason to take a PK on any more than three models (including the Warboss). How many unit can you think of that can survive 14 PK attacks? How many of those would die to 22?
In addition, you're missing the Waaagh! Banner which is probably the best piece of wargear.

Second, you're comparing apples and oranges. Or more like, a shotgun to an orange.
First of all nob bikers would be a command squad, not regular bikers, which quickly adds up to the same amount of points as the nob squad, assuming similar equipment (two PF, a standard).
The difference: The nobz have three attacks each, WS 5, I3, 4+ armor, a 5++ save, 4+ cover at all times, furious charge, one poisoned weapon, better guns on their bikes (TL dakka gunz at BS2 beat TL bolters at BS4), and two wounds each.
White Scar bikers have two attacks each, WS4, I4, 3+ armor, 4+ cover, +1 strength to HoW only, Hit&Run, one wound

A warboss with pk has five attacks, I1, 4+ armor, 5++ cybork, T6, S10, ld9
A captain wielding the burning blade has three attacks, I5, 2+ armor, 3++ storm shield, T5, S7 and ld10.

So biker nobz are pretty much exactly as good as the best kind of marine bikers, if not better, for a similar price tag. The only benefit marines have, is added durability, which is pretty much negated by the orks simply having twice as many wounds.

Agreed. And the advantage that having two wounds per model provides in assault is quite massive against 1W units, such as the WS BCS. As a WS player, the Nob Bikerz are one of the few units I'm jealous of, if they're well built (i.e. 3 power klaw to provide AP 2 but no more, etc). It's critical that you have more than one power klaw, otherwise I'm just going to challenge the warboss with chump characters and tank the rest of the squad's attacks with the Chapter Master. It'll take, on average, 36(1/2 Hits * 1/2 Wounds * 1/6 Saves * 2/3 FNP) WS4 S5 attacks to even put a wound on him. Just causing 2 wounds makes you easy to beat, and that's giving credit for the assault to the Orks.

 Unholyllama wrote:

 zachwho wrote:
does the 5th edition burna wagon work the same way in 6th? place one template and multiply by the number of burnas?

also is it important to keep the nobz diversified in terms of equipment like in 5th? i don't think so, because of new wound allocations and los.

I'm hearing alot of talk here about Nob bikers, but are they the best or only option for nobz? are MANz in a wagon good? regular nobz in a wagon?

Burna-wagons work the same way.

Gear diversity isn't as important now since it's pretty easy to keep your important equipment out of the front ranks of a unit.

I run Nobz in wagons (and trukks) on occassion. When I do I load them all out with Big Choppas and push them towards MC's and higher toughness units. They work well but I tend to think that the equivalent amount of boyz would work just as good due to number of attacks vs quality of attacks.

Remember this... and this is why Burnas are not that great anymore...

Ork FAQ

Q: Can a burna be used to shoot in Overwatch and be used as a power
weapon later in the same Assault phase? (p45)
A: No.

I'm hearing alot of talk here about Nob bikers, but are they the best or only option for nobz? are MANz in a wagon good? regular nobz in a wagon?

What kills MANz is the lack of a Invuln and that they can not do a sweeping advance. Nobz in a wagon are good, but they are not characters. So if your warboss travels with them, he can be challenged out. Regular Nobz are still decent and can't get the PKs sucked out of them and can be made scoring, but you will miss the mobility and free cover save that the bikes get. The Eavy Armor just doesn't cut it.

Nob Bikers? They are a deathstar unit. The painboy is a must for FNP and that is what makes them so devastating. The only thing you avoid are Str 10 Pie plates that ignore cover, and that is what the Cybork is for. You throw a Warboss in with them, and he is T 6 with FNP, so can never be insta jibbed. They are worth every penny, special when you can make them troops.

also is it important to keep the nobz diversified in terms of equipment like in 5th? i don't think so, because of new wound allocations and los.

Yeah, but for LoS purposes. The guys up front, give Big Choppas to, keep your PKs in the back. You have to put wounds on the closest guys to the shooters, so you can now sort of spread wounds around if your able to move after you have been shot. Be careful someone doesn't get behind you or flank you and gack up your PKs.

Also remember that if half of your squad is behind LoS blocking terrain (say a solid 6" tall wall), only the guys that can be seen by the shooters get killed. If they do more wounds that what can be seen, those wounds are lost. I am just trying to stress to you that model placement is incredibly important in 6th. You can't remove who you want to anymore. Place your important figs in the middle of the mobs to protect them from shooting. Small units do not do a good job of protecting a fig unless they are super tough units (see Nob Bikers).

The other thing about small units (like Trukk boyz) is that you can lose a match now through points. People will shoot a Trukk just to blow it up for First Blood, because it is easy to kill. Then if they wipe out the 12 man squad that was in it, your down 2 victory points to nothing. There is Linebreaker and Slay the Warlord. If your lucky, even objectives. Weak small units (10 grots, trukks, one Deff Choppa) are easy points for good players in a Tourney, and if you want a Tourney list, you should avoid them if you can, or accept the risk for having it.

I honestly feel like depending on cover saves is a suckers bet. Thus, big mekks are not equal in value to Warbosses because the Bosses can make a nob squad troops (vs a easy to kill Dread) and the simple fact pretty much every list has multiple ways to get around cover saves, probably with high str, low AP weapons. This means KFF is dead against good players. Besides, a Warboss with a PK is str 10... guess what your answer is to AV 14, a charging PK Nob or a Warboss with a PK. That is /it/. As for Elites, 2 squads of Lootas pretty much give you your Anti-Aircraft and your long range fire support. A Squad of Kannons with extra crew give you a consistent (50% chance to hit) Str 8 shot that can glance AV 14 in a pinch, and the whole unit being artillery (and now T 7) means extra crew to stand in front of the gunz is a good thing. I actually like giving them Ammo Runts and sitting them behind a ADL with the Icarus Lascannon and using the Runt to re-roll the Icarus shot on Intercept (you all ready have plenty of Str 7, so the Quad gun is not really an impact). Put two grots from two different gunz in base to base and then rotate Grots because a grot can only use a ammo runt once a game to make a re-roll.

As for troops, Battlewagon boyz or a mob of 30 shoota boyz can be effective with the standard load out (PK/BP/EA Nob and 3 Big Shootas/Rokkits). You will want at least 3-4 troop selections in a 1850 tourney list, but 2 mobs of boyz, 2 mobs of nobz, 2 mobs of lootas and 2 warbosses can eat up most of your points.

As for optional units, Stormboys with Zag are one of the only units in the game that can charge out of deep strike, and his PK legs go off of his Init. I personally find Grotsnik to be a decent option, specially if you throw him in a unit that normally can't get a Painboy (like a Boyz squad or even MANz). Just remember you have to attack with him (like that is a deal breaker) and now you can give any unit Cybork for 5+ points. Everything else is to random for my tastes.

Watch some battle Reports on YouTube to also give you an idea of how some units work and how the game is played, though most of them are error filled. It is amazing how bad people screw up the rules to this game. Learn the rules and you will probably win most of your matches just by not forgetting stuff or making dumb mistakes.

Good luck!

 zachwho wrote:

 g0atsticks wrote:
Orks are really about having fun.

i have fun winning, or loosing a really close competitive game, not getting trashed and tabled.

I'm just trying to steer clear of GWs attempt to make the orks 40ks comic relieve. i really can't stand their slap stick approach with some of the units. they're a race that breeds and lives for war!! not ramshackle tables and other sillyness.

not attacking you, just venting lol.

so keep the help coming!!

Then maybe you are playing the wrong army pal. Orkz ARE the army of Ramshackle tables, risk, chance, and buckets of dice. Orkz live and breath to fight, crudely. (as reflected in their charts). If you do not like that then...... play Space Marines or Tau.

I know that when I played orkz in 3rd, 4th, and 5th my orkz were much feared in my gaming group. 6th is giving me a run for my money, but orkz are also pretty adaptable too. We may not be a turn-3 win army, but we do come in swinging hard.


I am not attacking you either, just making sure you know what the army is all about before you invest huge money into it. I do not want you to waste your money.

As far as what you want in your list, Battlewagons have been dead 'ard from generation to generation, cannot go wrong with at least 2. Fill them with shootaboys, support them with anything fast and killy. (Warbuggies, koptas, jets). And Warbikes have been decent as well, you cannot go too wrong with them.

 Da Kommizzar wrote:

 zachwho wrote:

 g0atsticks wrote:
Orks are really about having fun.

i have fun winning, or loosing a really close competitive game, not getting trashed and tabled.

I'm just trying to steer clear of GWs attempt to make the orks 40ks comic relieve. i really can't stand their slap stick approach with some of the units. they're a race that breeds and lives for war!! not ramshackle tables and other sillyness.

not attacking you, just venting lol.

so keep the help coming!!

Then maybe you are playing the wrong army pal. Orkz ARE the army of Ramshackle tables, risk, chance, and buckets of dice. Orkz live and breath to fight, crudely. (as reflected in their charts). If you do not like that then...... play Space Marines or Tau.

I know that when I played orkz in 3rd, 4th, and 5th my orkz were much feared in my gaming group. 6th is giving me a run for my money, but orkz are also pretty adaptable too. We may not be a turn-3 win army, but we do come in swinging hard.


I am not attacking you either, just making sure you know what the army is all about before you invest huge money into it. I do not want you to waste your money.

As far as what you want in your list, Battlewagons have been dead 'ard from generation to generation, cannot go wrong with at least 2. Fill them with shootaboys, support them with anything fast and killy. (Warbuggies, koptas, jets). And Warbikes have been decent as well, you cannot go too wrong with them.

I agree with this 100% I have played Orks since 3rd as well and this is the hardest its ever been for me. They are getting re-done pretty soon though only Nids and IG in between. Should be around a May-June Release and its rumoured that Ward is doing the dex so it should broken and way overpowered which will keep it up there for many years. Wards weird fluff ideas might actually work for Orks as well so heres hoping.

 Sinji wrote:

Should be around a May-June Release and its rumoured that Ward is doing the dex so it should broken and way overpowered which will keep it up there for many years. Wards weird fluff ideas might actually work for Orks as well so heres hoping.

With as many codexes we have gotten, waiting years for them may be a thing of the past. This is the best GW has ever been on them. As for Ward, the guy is a fruit. Only reason Blood Angels and Necrons are buddies in his eyes is the 'Vampires and Undead' thing. Ork codex just needs some tweaks, like making a Pain boy a character option so he can be thrown into any unit. Some shooting that can hurt AV 14, and anything better than a 6+ FNP. I am really hoping that they bring back the different aspects of the old clans with a Ork version of 'Chapter Tactics', because I miss Cyber-boars for Snakebites. Based off of the Marine Codex, there is a lot of stuff they could do with both Orks and IG to make them really cool.

One tactic I'm looking into trying soon uses the new Stronghold Assault data sheets for the Imperial Bunker. Drop 8 lootas in there with and Ammo Store upgrade and a quad gun and you have a hefty fortification with some mean fire power and the ability to reroll to hit rolls of 1. Granted this will depend on if you, your opponent, and/or TO are playing with the rules and profiles in the sheet.

Ward isnt writing the new Dex, it was confirmed over in the Ork Rumors thread IIRC.

Given that the rumors thread is a rumors thread, i'll not be believing ANY of it until the shiny new book is in my hands.

That said, Ward seems to be taking a holiday from 40k codexes, which is fine by me.

Dunno about Stronghold Assault, but the Stompa is a potential game changer for Orks.

It all depends how it gets ruled for tournies.
~No Titans: Obviously gonna be a non starter here
~Titans and D Weapons: Its not so good here, as it's D Weapon is trash and it'll die horribly to the insanity of the Rev Titan
~Titans but D Weapons are nerfed: Aw yiss

As I discussed in another post in here ("Tower of Gork") by loading this bastard with mekboyz you can have a walker that is making 10x 4+ HP regen rolls per turn.

It also combos amazingly with Battlewagons, Deffkoptas, and Grots, and can be a mobile LoS blocker

Ricter wrote:
Agreed. And the advantage that having two wounds per model provides in assault is quite massive against 1W units, such as the WS BCS. As a WS player, the Nob Bikerz are one of the few units I'm jealous of, if they're well built (i.e. 3 power klaw to provide AP 2 but no more, etc). It's critical that you have more than one power klaw, otherwise I'm just going to challenge the warboss with chump characters and tank the rest of the squad's attacks with the Chapter Master. It'll take, on average, 36(1/2 Hits * 1/2 Wounds * 1/6 Saves * 2/3 FNP) WS4 S5 attacks to even put a wound on him. Just causing 2 wounds makes you easy to beat, and that's giving credit for the assault to the Orks.

A chapter master is a different story though. I picked a captain because for the price of a buffed-out chapter master, an ork player could almost afford two warbosses. I think a squad containing a chapter master with the relic shield or Kharn would easily beat the unit, though not without casualties.

 Dakkamite wrote:
Dunno about Stronghold Assault, but the Stompa is a potential game changer for Orks.

It all depends how it gets ruled for tournies....r

we're looking forward to fielding the Stompa in casual games using Escalation, but be aware that Warhammer World, in particular, are saying that as this is a supplement they won't allow Escalation in their own tournies, so I doubt any other ones will in general.

 Ascalam wrote:
Given that the rumors thread is a rumors thread, i'll not be believing ANY of it until the shiny new book is in my hands.

That said, Ward seems to be taking a holiday from 40k codexes, which is fine by me.

 DarthOvious wrote:
I talked to Matt Ward at Games Day. He isn't writing codices anymore.

Ward would destroy the Ork dex. I don't think a lot of 40k players remember what happened when he wrote the Orks and Goblins dex for WHFB, which was a complete disaster and made the faction basically unplayable in any setting that wasn't extremely casual.

orks are one of those weird armies where on paper thay seem like they're really good - they can take full units of 15 rokkits, burnas or D3 shot autocannons, which no other army can do, they can get squadrons of dreadnaught close combat weapons, which no other army can do (IIRC), they can get the dreaded bikerboss, which is pretty sweet, their bikes have more dakka than anyone elses, their wagons can get the amazing deffrolla, their boys can get one of the most efficient infantry killing dakka in the game (18" shootas, they just work so well!), they can assault vehicles without getting out of their own, they can teleport a unit of 30 boys across the board in the first turn, their walkers can get 6 attacks (!!), and they have one of the only artillery units in the game, and it's pretty good!

all that said, and you'll rarely, if ever win a game solidly - it'll always be close. which is a good thing, i think, as too many armies out there have a 'win button' *cough* waveserpents *cough* wheras orks just work by sheer quantity of numbers. it's also quite nice that they're the only T4 horde and one of 2 armies with portable cover. most people dread facing a wraithknight, i just throw a battlewagonload of boys at it and watch as it struggles against the fearless masses and the powerklaw it just can't hit (due to quantity of models in base contact, i can remove 4 a turn then replace with pile-ins, keeping the nob safe).


my rule of thumb is always have a backup plan. never send one unit to do anything, send 2. in the case of trukks, send 4, you'll need it to get one there, unfortunately.

I think the void shield generator from stronghold assault might make ork trukk spam a bit more playable. While trukks are still somewhat viable, if you go second, you lose.

The ability to essentially make your trukks av 12 for a few hits might make orks able to sit for a turn before charging up.

The list still needs support from typical ork staples like big gunz and lootas.

 some bloke wrote:
orks are one of those weird armies where on paper thay seem like they're really good - they can take full units of 15 rokkits, burnas or D3 shot autocannons, which no other army can do, they can get squadrons of dreadnaught close combat weapons, which no other army can do (IIRC), they can get the dreaded bikerboss, which is pretty sweet, their bikes have more dakka than anyone elses, their wagons can get the amazing deffrolla, their boys can get one of the most efficient infantry killing dakka in the game (18" shootas, they just work so well!), they can assault vehicles without getting out of their own, they can teleport a unit of 30 boys across the board in the first turn, their walkers can get 6 attacks (!!), and they have one of the only artillery units in the game, and it's pretty good!

That's a pretty good description of the view most non-ork players have of our army. An that's also the reason why so many people fail with orks as their second army. They simple forget that we aren't wearing 3+ power armor and are hard pressed to hurt anything which is further away than 24". Orks simply don't work like other armies, because unlike space marine infantry, IG tanks, eldar aspect warriors and tanks, tau suits, tyrianid monstrous creatures or chaos daemons, any specialized unit you field can easily be removed from the table by weight of fire while not having the luxury of hiding them in cover. That's why we get so many of them.

HiiC wrote:
I think the void shield generator from stronghold assault might make ork trukk spam a bit more playable. While trukks are still somewhat viable, if you go second, you lose.

The ability to essentially make your trukks av 12 for a few hits might make orks able to sit for a turn before charging up.

The list still needs support from typical ork staples like big gunz and lootas.

Don't have the SA book, but I love trukks and that sounds INCREDIBLE

Yeah, the only strong suit of Orks right now is that they can take quite a few "sort-of" durable units (Ork durability lies in numbers). This especially works well in smaller games. There is simply a limit to how many vehicles and Orks the opponent kan kill before he is overwhelmed. That said, I'm glad that I play in a quite casual meta where my Orks can compete every time without being optimized.

 some bloke wrote:
...and are hard pressed to hurt anything which is further away than 24"

Looted Wagons, Big Gunz, and Lootas all disagree with you. Two of those (not including the Looted Wagons) are top tier units in our Dex.

 ntdars wrote:

 some bloke wrote:
...and are hard pressed to hurt anything which is further away than 24"

Looted Wagons, Big Gunz, and Lootas all disagree with you. Two of those (not including the Looted Wagons) are top tier units in our Dex.

There are some exceptions, but Jidmah is pretty much spot-on. Our real "threat" range starts at 24". The absolute top-tier unit of our codex is Boyz, and they can't do anything to you outside of 18" other than pepper you with a couple poorly-aimed Rokkit or Big Shoota shots.

Once you get into 24" then our Rokkits come into play, which is where Buggies, Kans, and Deffkoptas all shine (well, Kans USED to shine). The Kustom Mega Blasta too if you want to count that.

Most other armies get a high-strength, low AP weapon that can fire across the table. Lootas are practically the only unit in our codex with a range outside 36", which is why they're more of an auto-include in 6th edition than they ever were in 5th. Our Boyz have too hard a time getting into short range where they can do the most shooting damage. Removal from the front means we're always losing progress running across the table. Our vehicles used to rely on special equipment like Grot Riggers and Armour Plates to get us across the field, but Hull Points essentially make those tools useless. On top of that since our best transport is Open Topped, and AP2 weapons grant an additional bonus on the vehicle damage chart, there's a very high likelyhood that whatever weapon penetrates your Battlewagon is going to blow it up. On top of THAT, we lose more Orks in the explosion than we used to.

Sorry, I got off-topic there lol.

I can't wait for the Ork codex update.

Murrdox wrote:

 ntdars wrote:

 some bloke wrote:
...and are hard pressed to hurt anything which is further away than 24"

Looted Wagons, Big Gunz, and Lootas all disagree with you. Two of those (not including the Looted Wagons) are top tier units in our Dex.

There are some exceptions, but Jidmah is pretty much spot-on. Our real "threat" range starts at 24". The absolute top-tier unit of our codex is Boyz, and they can't do anything to you outside of 18" other than pepper you with a couple poorly-aimed Rokkit or Big Shoota shots.

Once you get into 24" then our Rokkits come into play, which is where Buggies, Kans, and Deffkoptas all shine (well, Kans USED to shine). The Kustom Mega Blasta too if you want to count that.

Most other armies get a high-strength, low AP weapon that can fire across the table. Lootas are practically the only unit in our codex with a range outside 36", which is why they're more of an auto-include in 6th edition than they ever were in 5th. Our Boyz have too hard a time getting into short range where they can do the most shooting damage. Removal from the front means we're always losing progress running across the table. Our vehicles used to rely on special equipment like Grot Riggers and Armour Plates to get us across the field, but Hull Points essentially make those tools useless. On top of that since our best transport is Open Topped, and AP2 weapons grant an additional bonus on the vehicle damage chart, there's a very high likelyhood that whatever weapon penetrates your Battlewagon is going to blow it up. On top of THAT, we lose more Orks in the explosion than we used to.

Sorry, I got off-topic there lol.

I can't wait for the Ork codex update.

Don't apologize for getting off topic, I love it when people prove me wrong haha. Personally though, I'd never vouch for Rockets unless they're on Deffkoptas. Buggies aren't great (unless it's the FW ones), Kans got nerfed. I RARELY see people running Tankhuntas unless they're playing against IG or something.

orks can do some decent damage at range with the imperial armour units, like supa-kannons. if i'm allowed to bring IA then i'll usually give a battlewagon the incredibly rare 'ard case and a supa kannon. it just makes it a viable tank when you can fire a S9 blast across the entire board, and 12 S5 snapshots if you're in shorter range with big shootas. not for orks the worries of 'oh, they're too close for me to fire my pieplate without risking my important bits' when you can instead sit still and fire 4 big shootas with none of the risk!

 ntdars wrote:

 some bloke wrote:
...and are hard pressed to hurt anything which is further away than 24"

Looted Wagons, Big Gunz, and Lootas all disagree with you. Two of those (not including the Looted Wagons) are top tier units in our Dex.

Yep, that's why I said hard pressed, not unable. Technically buggies and koptaz also have a 36" threat range, but they don't have enough firepower to make it work.

Of course, those lootaz and kannons are only top tier because they have that kind of range, rather than the other way around. I highly doubt that lootaz were as omni-present as they are if we had any other options for ranged high-strength shooting.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 some bloke wrote:
orks can do some decent damage at range with the imperial armour units, like supa-kannons. if i'm allowed to bring IA then i'll usually give a battlewagon the incredibly rare 'ard case and a supa kannon. it just makes it a viable tank when you can fire a S9 blast across the entire board, and 12 S5 snapshots if you're in shorter range with big shootas. not for orks the worries of 'oh, they're too close for me to fire my pieplate without risking my important bits' when you can instead sit still and fire 4 big shootas with none of the risk!

IMO, a big trakk is a much better platform for supa-kannons, it is cheaper and can be taken in squadrons of three.

Chiming in 2 cents - agreed on not investing heavily in anything more than Boyz until the new codex appears. Get tons for cheap on eBay. You'll be able to do well with them in both standard and Apoc games - being able to field an official Green Tide formation is a wonderful feeling especially if you put a KFF in there. If you keep an eye out for good deals on eBay you can easily get 100+ boyz for less than three BWs. Plus even if you go back and buy BWs you're ready to fill them with things. Buying up lots of cheap Nobz is good too, as they're versatile and can be used in many different scenarios, and can be modeled or proxied in different situations (I have a 30 boy mob and nob painted in black leather so I can use them as either a regular boy mob, or a 20-strong Kommando mob if I feel like it for a game). They're your bread and butter and it's like 95% likely that they'll only be made better in the next codex revision.

If you're still looking to play Orks NOW, I run an ork army my local group calls "unorthodox": each list has at least 100 boyz, going up to 120 for 2000+pt games, I have a trukk that contains a MAW and a group of 6 nobz (2PK, 2BC, 2skorcha combis) + painboy in 1500pt and up games. Every list has one KFF, 2 KFFs under 1250pt. A squad of 10-15 lootas in every list as well. I take a single Deff Dread in 1750+ because it's an incredibly cheap bullet magnet in the first few turns. Make no mistake: any vehicle you bring in an Ork army, unless you run a dedicated Speed Freek list, will die in the first few turns. An upside to running a footslog list is that you're able to balance out points more evenly - the average points cost of all the units in my army is around 200pt, so losing any one isn't a huge detriment or points sink. My Nob mob is a bit more expensive at 300pt but they all get invul and FNP so they definitely make back their cost. Putting them in the trukk means I can get them wherever they need to be quickly and at a minimal amount of points (sneaking them up behind mobs of boyz midgame is also a good way to avoid handing over the inevitable first blood vehicle point).

I'd strongly recommend tracking down a copy of IA8 just for the Painboss rules. Upthread it was mentioned that Painboys should be made a character to stick in any mob, that's what a Painboss does. 5+ FNP has saved my butt in more games than I can count and my opponents always hate it.

I've run this 2000pt list and its lower cost variations a dozen times or so during the past year and gotten decent results. I've only been outright tabled a few times, and that's been against brand new Marine codex lists. Usually I either tie or win conditionally (running out of turns), though I've eaten Space Wolves and Tau lists, and completely mopped the floor with another Ork army who was fielding a lot of Deffkoptas and looted wagons. It's worked really well in a wide variety of mission types: so many models to camp on objectives, huge mobs that don't give kill points easily with the Painboss and KFF, and being able to surround a Relic with 60-100 models camped in a 4+ cover save ruin is the definition of a headache for the other guy. I've won so many games by simply not letting my opponent complete any objectives before turns run out.

EDIT: also, if you're playing in a 2000pt game, being able to take advantage of a second detachment is so good for Orks. If you're footslogging you already have all the troops you'll need, and being able to add two more KFFs or a KFF and SAG is really, really fun. Plus you can run a second Ally too, giving you another Painboss. In every 2000pt game, my entire army has at least a 5+ cover save, and at least 60 models with 5+ FNP. I wouldn't recommend doing any 'ard boyz mobs, as there's so much that negates the armor save it's been a waste of points every time I field it. Spending 60pts on a Painboss with cybork is so much better.

If u're struggling for a long-range support like i did, just take allies. From my experience, allied forces propose better options than lootas. For example, i run ig allies:
-CCS with master of ordnance. I like to keep it cheap without any special gear/weapons cause as soon as you make them expensive and more dangerous - they get killed emidiately, while a not reliable, from the opponent's pov, single s9 ap3 ordnance barrage that scatters ALOT usually pays off it's humble 30 pts since u're able to reroll scatters when orders suckseed.
-Vet squad with an AC or a LC. Again no special expensive things like plazma and stuff cause those points are always neede on the front where my boyz struggle hard.
-Leman russ. Well, that's what i take to replace lootas. And here are the reasons why. Though it has less firepower pointwise, but it's durable - 14-13-10(sometimes 11). There are tons of ignore cover gunz that make short work of lootas. There are tons of s7 gunz that make short work of everything with av12 and capable of glancing av13 to death in a single turn. So my philosophy for orkses is either take av14 or none. Espetially if it's gona be a single vehicle in your whole list. Or when u're running battlewagon wall. Just imagine what's gona happen to something with av 12 or less when an opponent that has TONS of s7 (probably with ignore cover) sees an av14 wall and a few juicy kans/trukks/chimeras. Anywayz, a leman russ tank can be easilly built with any gun to suit u'r role. For me - the best options appeared to be Exterminator and Eradicator.
Exterminator with hb sponsons and hull mounted hb with pask (220 pts is alot but it's capable of dealing around 6-8 wounds (before saves) to mc or around 10-12 wounds to infantry per turn thx to pask's rerolls to wound. Can threaten flyers with it's TL s8 4-shot autocannon and 12 s6 hb shots thanks to pask's +1 str vs vehicles, and totally destroys light vehicles up to 12 and can glance av14 when desperately needed).
Eradicator worked great for me either - it cost like 180 with sponson hb-s and with s6 ap4 ignores cover 36' large blast main gun + 12 hb shots it's decent at taking out light infantry in heavy cover. Won quite some matches thx to it killing pathfinders in 2+ cover.
Also, they have searchlights

Ofc there are lotsa options