Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Matt1785 wrote:

In all seriousness though, I am a casual "Hobby" player, so I could see maybe one or two games against titans.. but I definitely won't be playing EVERY game against a Titan... hopefully others feel the same way.

Everyone loves a Attack on Titan.

 Rautakanki wrote:
I sure would like to play a Stompa in regular games, because it's kinda cool. I think it's pretty crap though, just consider what are it's chances of killing say a Riptide. Not gonna happen.

Or when it gets charged by fire warriors with EMP grenades and kill it in one turn.

i flipped through the store copy for our local gaming group ... saw nothing of interest to me as an Ork player who fiddles with Space Wolves ...

I mean really, if I saw this thing, I'd just assault it with FMCs. Which would totally be worth it, and I'd get bonus points, while the rest of your army is small.

Don't knock it 'til you try it!

Its pretty lame ass to be honest.

We had these things around before apoc during 3rd ed and I can tell you how every game went.

1) The guy across the table is annoyed all game because he cant deal with your super heavy and will never play against one again.

or

2) You blow the thing up in one turn and the game was a complete waste of time.

Those are the options. I have never in my 2 decades of playing this game seen it go any other way other then the 2 options posted above. This isn't some magical answer to the 2++ deathstars out there as this will not be played wide spread nor accepted in tournaments, and why the feth would you play someone with screamer star in a casual game if you don't like it?

Hmm iBookstore says it's out today but I can't download it!

I reviewed both Escalation and Stronghold (links in my sig) for anyone who doesn't want to drop the cash blindly.

That aside, I think both are pretty good. Stronghold got more new rules and updates, but Escalation got my new favorite mission type. YMMV, but that's 40k in a nutshell for you.

I just finished reading both the books
I dont think that apoc models in 40k is a good idea at all
but apparently at my flgs these rules will be legit for the upcoming doubles tourney.. so just for broken sake.. i will be taking my transcendent C'tan

pretty much theres lots of apoc models in the book that it allows you to take...
and youre aloud to take 1
it is called your lord of war
and when you take it. your opponent will get some special rules against you and special warlord traits
also if your lord of war dies.. it gives up 3 victory points


Automatically Appended Next Post:
also there is no warhound in there...

Hmm the Tiger Shark rules in Escalation only list the ion weapons and no option to make them heavy rail guns... Does this mean the A-X-1-0 I just ordered can't be used in Escalation game but the regular one can...? Also the regular tiger shark seems pretty meh in the escalation rules compared to the other super heavies =[

Noctem wrote:
Hmm the Tiger Shark rules in Escalation only list the ion weapons and no option to make them heavy rail guns... Does this mean the A-X-1-0 I just ordered can't be used in Escalation game but the regular one can...? Also the regular tiger shark seems pretty meh in the escalation rules compared to the other super heavies =[

Pretty much. Doesn't mean you and your friends can't sit down and hash out some house rules to use it though.

 Desubot wrote:
"Tigershark"..... Well played GW well played.

What's infuriating is that I have the AX-1-0 version, not the normal. So blah on GW.
Destroyer weapons are badly thought out and overpowered in Apoc, and have no place in normal 40K. And the new superheavy rules are dumbed down jokes compared to even Apoc 1. Still a few little things in Escalation are nice touches- If you have a Lord of War, the enemy gets +1 to sieze the Initiative, and you get 1 victory point (as a secondary objective) for each three hull points or wounds you put on the enemies lord of war.

Still, barring the inclusion of the Aquilla Strongpoint in normal games of 40K in stronghold assault, that expansion is far better done than Escalation.

Just a thought that crossed my mind: nothing is stopping FW from adding more options to Escalation by saying "The following are to be treated as Lords of War for games of Escalation:" and then just list everything they feel fits.

 Orock wrote:

 Tannhauser42 wrote:
Yeah, D-weapons (as they currently are), have no place in "normal" 40K.
Apart from that, I have no problems with allowing any and all superheavies into a game, as long as they follow the 25% rule used in Heresy rules (no more than 25% of your total points can be spent on it).
If you can't kill a Baneblade in a 2000pt game, may the Emperor have pity on you should you ever face a couple of Riptides or Wraithknights.

I would normally agree, but I also think that rerollable 2+ invulnerable saves on squads have no place in the game either, and this is definatley an answer to that.

God I hate that crap so very very much.

Yea I would agree that D weapons dont belong as you can drop monstrous creatures and vehicles like nothing. But when you play against a unit with a rerollable 2+ cover or invuln then the game is just stupid and a D weapon is the perfect solution!

Noctem wrote:
Hmm the Tiger Shark rules in Escalation only list the ion weapons and no option to make them heavy rail guns... Does this mean the A-X-1-0 I just ordered can't be used in Escalation game but the regular one can...? Also the regular tiger shark seems pretty meh in the escalation rules compared to the other super heavies =[

Yeah, that's just hilarious. Eldar get a titan with 4x D-weapon pie plates, Tau get a flying Hammerhead with a few gun drone passengers. You'd think they'd at least pretend to care about the quality of their books...

Do the SoB get nothing?

 Troike wrote:
Do the SoB get nothing?

In Stronghold we get to benefit from one of the fortifications, but no, we don't get anything for us in Escalation. Worse yet, we don't even get access to the Imperial Guard hand-me-downs.

Again, something that is easily fixed through house rules, but an oversight in the book as a whole.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Actually to be fair, Stronghold lets us benefit from two fortifications, but only one mentions us by name, and the other one is capable of hurting us despite it's benefits.

Oh bloody hell. Well, at least we've got units that can effectively counter these super-heavies, hopefully.

What's this Stonghold benefit you mentioned, thn?

 Troike wrote:
Oh bloody hell. Well, at least we've got units that can effectively counter these super-heavies, hopefully.

What's this Stonghold benefit you mentioned, thn?

Honoured Imperium is the one that mentions Sisters, it makes Imperium models within 2" of the Imperium Rubble get Stubborn. The statue makes Imperium models within 2" Fearless and confers a 3+ cover save (normal TLOS cover, not a bubble or anything). The whole formation can buy Obstacles (which I covered in my review).

The one that can kill us, as well as help us is the Promethium Relay Pipes. Basically take an Aegis Defense Line, and instead of the 2+ go to ground cover save it does D6, S4, AP5 hits when you roll 1s for cover saves (don't worry it is cheaper than an Aegis as well). What it does is make all flamers mounted on non-vehicles in 2" become heavy weapons (Assualt or Pistol and they count as Heavy if you want so you can turn the effect off if you need to shuffle about too) and they get the Torrent rule. It can also take Obstacles.

I'm thinking Torrenting Retributors?

So are these ONLY available in ebook format and not the usual ibook format?

And why does stronghold say it is 'ebook format' but escalation doesn't (when it is)?

I don't like the standard ebook format very much, so it irks me that it seems to be only in that format.

Anyone have any other info about when or if they're coming out in ibook format?

 tankboy145 wrote:
Yea I would agree that D weapons dont belong as you can drop monstrous creatures and vehicles like nothing. But when you play against a unit with a rerollable 2+ cover or invuln then the game is just stupid and a D weapon is the perfect solution!

I'm of the opinion that two wrong's don't make a right. Yes, it is a counter to the 2+ reroll invuls. But if one badly designed thing marginalizes normal units and play, then adding a second thing that marginalizes normal units and play doesn't necessarily reduce the problem, it just marginalizes farther. And the game becomes about these units even more.

Escalation is a good name for this book. Do I need to remind people that the word escalation is almost always used negatively, e.g. nuclear escalation. One person has them so others get them, and conventional armies become less relevant.

Well,guess I won't be selling my revenant after all then.

I don't get the whole negative thing about the book as if it breaks the game. The game was broken the moment allies hit the table again (obviously aside form the standard rules and codexes). This doesn't change a thing, if you play people you play more often and know well, you just agree ahead of time whether you want to use it or not. If you play people who want to follow the exact rules and have wraithknight/riptide combo's, go wild. Though, not a lot in that book that actually is very good against those things aside from a revenant who swallows up half yourpoints at a sub2k game and dies pretty fast.

If you can't come to an agreement about the book with the people you play with, maybe it's time to look for other opponents more than anything else. As for tournament, who cares, To's will make their own rules anyways so no need to worry.

 Gertjan wrote:
The game was broken the moment allies hit the table again (obviously aside form the standard rules and codexes).

Allies are not even close to D-weapons in normal 40k.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Gertjan wrote:
If you can't come to an agreement about the book with the people you play with, maybe it's time to look for other opponents more than anything else.

You're neglecting pickup games. Now if you want to play a game of 40k you have to spend even more time negotiating just what overpowered and stupid rules are allowed.

 tankboy145 wrote:

 Orock wrote:

 Tannhauser42 wrote:
Yeah, D-weapons (as they currently are), have no place in "normal" 40K.
Apart from that, I have no problems with allowing any and all superheavies into a game, as long as they follow the 25% rule used in Heresy rules (no more than 25% of your total points can be spent on it).
If you can't kill a Baneblade in a 2000pt game, may the Emperor have pity on you should you ever face a couple of Riptides or Wraithknights.

I would normally agree, but I also think that rerollable 2+ invulnerable saves on squads have no place in the game either, and this is definatley an answer to that.

God I hate that crap so very very much.

Yea I would agree that D weapons dont belong as you can drop monstrous creatures and vehicles like nothing. But when you play against a unit with a rerollable 2+ cover or invuln then the game is just stupid and a D weapon is the perfect solution!

Except one problem. You just made the 2++ invuln re-roll army useless..... by bringing something that also IDs pretty much everything else in the game hurraaaaaay! But in all seriousness, no. An answer like this is not the solution, it just makes a aalready broken game even worse. With the 2++ re-roll it was probably just an oversight (and I can't blame a company for not planning every move out.... though they could fax it to say hey guys 2++ invulns are more like 2++ and then 4++ or something I dunno).... but casually throwing D-weapons is an incredibly different problem altogether.

Also, escalation arguably will cause more arguments for pick up games and further can ruin individual's opinions of FW which is something FW is already struggling with xD

Two small templates at D strenght don't seem to do much to screamers it will clip 2 screamers or heralds max , but heralds can Look out sir . And the templates scater , so I don't think a ravenant will kill more then 2 , maybe 3 screamers per turn .Maybe more if someone uses divination on it .

I also don't know how much it costs , I guess something like two shadow swords on account of it being armed with 2 D weapons.

Strange, it seems to me like Lords of War costs about 100 points...
But they are not. LoW has many drawbacks
- its point cost is huge (HUGE), especially in low point games where its IMO unbearable
- you are giving your opponent extra Warlord Traits which can easily sink your LoW
- LoW means more potential victory points for opponent, it can lose you battle

So far, it seems to me that Lord of War will be potentially big change for some armies (you will have to adapt) but not "I take LoW, I just won" like some people acts. As someone said, 2++ invun reroll saves are also big thing and yeah, you have to adapt your army.

And yeah, I admit, I like it because it gives chance to more fluffy armies and awesome moments.

But +2inv could be countered with GK ally for a lot less points and cash. My faction doesn't have any non FW units that can take down titans fast enough when they are standing on a landing pad.






Fun stuff .

Slightly off topic, but I think relevant to the nay-sayers about this explansion/supplement/add-on, is that this type of up-conversion into bigger machines happens and has happened in other games. When I was in Warma ine, it started out as a few 'jaks and some infantry. Then came the super-warcasters. Then came the Behemoth, towering over the infantry much like a titan does marines. Then came Colossals. It didn't ruin that game, and I don't think Escalation will ruin it for Warhammer. Is a Revenant Titan (900pts) in a 1500 point game gonna be regular? I doubt it, how many good scoring units can you include to do the mission while the Titan sits there and blows up 1 or two things a round. I think for those of us who play the 4000 point games, a huge investment like a Baneblade or Lord of Skulls would be fun. Of course, it's most fun when the opponent has one as well. It's as tasty as two Warlords in CC to see the victor when a Stompa and a Lord of Skulls battle it out.

I should have prefaced this with "I don't have any super heavies, yet." I'm waiting to read the book to see if I can bring in other FW Lords of War that more closely fit my army (CSM), then I'll buy the only one I'll probably own.

Someone start a thread on the sister book "Stronghold Assault". IT has some great ideas, like upgrades for Fortifications. AND can be a counter to that Titan when you think about that Void Missile battery that you can buy. Wanna sink 500 points into a structure, go right ahead I say!

 Lockark wrote:

 Matt1785 wrote:

In all seriousness though, I am a casual "Hobby" player, so I could see maybe one or two games against titans.. but I definitely won't be playing EVERY game against a Titan... hopefully others feel the same way.

Everyone loves a Attack on Titan.

SIE SIND DAS ESSEN UND WIR SIND DIE JAEGER!

In seriousness, though, I am disappointed that, as a Chaos player, I can't use a Baneblade. I know Baneblades aren't particularly competitive or even good as far as superheavies go, but I just really like Baneblades and would very much like to have one in my army.

That said, I probably will be using a Baneblade anyway in casual (in other words, all) games.

Makumba wrote:




Fun stuff .

Please dont... they take most powerful thing with D weapons (or is something better? Im not 100% sure), put against it clearly "unprepared" army and than both of them laughs how ridiculous it is without chaos player trying to make some strategy or VP? Dunno...Im still not conviced that some of LoW are not too destabilizing, but this was just "hey guys, lets make video how its clearly OP, lets make it argument in the style Angry Joe! - yeaaaaah, damned superheavies!" :(