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Well, on our next RTT at Dec. 28, we will not allow superheavies. Too many problems for the unprepared and not all participants will have superheavies available.

Was going to make a thread about this, till I saw it. I don't see my question answered, so will ask here.

If I get this book, does it have the rules, and point costs and stats for the units, or do I also have to have the Apocalypse books and it says refer to this book, this page?

Also how many units are in here? Is there anything for Tyranids in here? I thought I read something about a Harridan, but not sure if it was that or something else. Isn't the Harridan, a Forge World unit?

If it is, would this be the first official units from GW to have FW units in a 40K game?

Also can you just show up with the Escalation book and play it as a normal 40K game? I haven't played 6th edition yet, so not sure if this is just you roll and you might get to play this scenario or you and your opponent agree ahead of time to use it?

Thanks in advance all help you guys and galls can give me.

The new book contains the rule set, same as for apoc, data sheets (same pt costs as in the apoc book) for the Baneblade pattern tanks, Thunder hawk, KLoS, Obelisk, Trans. C'tan, Tess. Vault, Stompa, Rev. Titan, Tiger Shark, and Harridan, and a set of six missions.

 wuestenfux wrote:
The new book contains the rule set, same as for apoc, data sheets (same pt costs as in the apoc book) for the Baneblade pattern tanks, Thunder hawk, KLoS, Obelisk, Trans. C'tan, Tess. Vault, Stompa, Rev. Titan, Tiger Shark, and Harridan, and a set of six missions.

Thank you very much for the quick reply.

Davor wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:
The new book contains the rule set, same as for apoc, data sheets (same pt costs as in the apoc book) for the Baneblade pattern tanks, Thunder hawk, KLoS, Obelisk, Trans. C'tan, Tess. Vault, Stompa, Rev. Titan, Tiger Shark, and Harridan, and a set of six missions.

Thank you very much for the quick reply.

You're welcome.
Additionally, there are two pages explaining the Lords of War ruleset.
In particular, if your opponent fields a superheavy, your warlord can choose to roll on the escalation warlord traits table instead of one of the normal warlord traits tables.

Please dont... they take most powerful thing with D weapons (or is something better? Im not 100% sure), put against it clearly "unprepared" army and than both of them laughs how ridiculous it is without chaos player trying to make some strategy or VP? Dunno...Im still not conviced that some of LoW are not too destabilizing, but this was just "hey guys, lets make video how its clearly OP, lets make it argument in the style Angry Joe! - yeaaaaah, damned superheavies!" :(

If he took a screamer star and let say DPs instead of the grinders , would he do any better? no . he would die even faster and that was not a unprepared army , it was a nova tournament army with which the demon player did well before . Only thing that saved him from being grinded to dust , was telepathy and puppet master . Without it the dark/elder/tau player would have rolled him hard.

Do you not see it that the fact that D weapons are suddenly legal , ever build that is centered around a death star or combination of two/three units suddenly are as viable as melee dark eldar footsloggers . Or how factions that can take Inquisitors as ally get buffed with cortez forcing re-rolls on other players and giving re-rols to you.

I can imagine that "bad" list playing against my IG. First turn he blows up my russ and manticore . It is not turn one , so I don't have vendetta he is out of range of most of my stuff and has troops hidden or in reservs . turn two he blows up my second russ and starts working on my chimeras. My vendettas come in , he intercepts with his broadsides and riptide . Am av12 just like helldrakes , but am not demon and I can't shot backwards , nor do I have an inv . Good chance I get stuned or shaken. turn three he blows up my chimera and clears my troops . unlike the demon player , I don't have telepathy casters to save me draw.

Makumba wrote:

Please dont... they take most powerful thing with D weapons (or is something better? Im not 100% sure), put against it clearly "unprepared" army and than both of them laughs how ridiculous it is without chaos player trying to make some strategy or VP? Dunno...Im still not conviced that some of LoW are not too destabilizing, but this was just "hey guys, lets make video how its clearly OP, lets make it argument in the style Angry Joe! - yeaaaaah, damned superheavies!" :(

If he took a screamer star and let say DPs instead of the grinders , would he do any better? no . he would die even faster and that was not a unprepared army , it was a nova tournament army with which the demon player did well before . Only thing that saved him from being grinded to dust , was telepathy and puppet master . Without it the dark/elder/tau player would have rolled him hard.

Do you not see it that the fact that D weapons are suddenly legal , ever build that is centered around a death star or combination of two/three units suddenly are as viable as melee dark eldar footsloggers . Or how factions that can take Inquisitors as ally get buffed with cortez forcing re-rolls on other players and giving re-rols to you.

I can imagine that "bad" list playing against my IG. First turn he blows up my russ and manticore . It is not turn one , so I don't have vendetta he is out of range of most of my stuff and has troops hidden or in reservs . turn two he blows up my second russ and starts working on my chimeras. My vendettas come in , he intercepts with his broadsides and riptide . Am av12 just like helldrakes , but am not demon and I can't shot backwards , nor do I have an inv . Good chance I get stuned or shaken. turn three he blows up my chimera and clears my troops . unlike the demon player , I don't have telepathy casters to save me draw.

1 - As you could read, Im not saying this LoW isnt "too much". Its just use of it to make case "every superheavy is same!" - they are not
2 - It was unprepared army. Yeah, it was tournament army. Tournament without LoW. Of course playrs will have to adjust their tactics for eventuality to face LoW. If you are against adaptation, I cant agree with you on basic questions.
3 - You are saying that now are deathstar armies useless because everyone will bring superheavies that will erase them. But, everyone will not bring LoW.
4 - So you already have scenario when you will stand against one particular superheavy with one particular addition (broadside and riptides) and from that you are making case that LoW are bad, bad bad. Sorry, but here I cant make discussion...you simply cant make hypotethical scenario, play it under very specific conditions and make assumptions, its the exactly same problem as with the video.

Personally, I dont know, how will all of the superheavies fit into game - I wrote it already - because there is big difference between them, but reactions that are completely sure it will be bad, without some playing, testing, anything, because "look at the video, look at it!" are simply wrong. Its just... the whole problem is IMO much, much more complicated.

 Lockark wrote:

 Matt1785 wrote:

In all seriousness though, I am a casual "Hobby" player, so I could see maybe one or two games against titans.. but I definitely won't be playing EVERY game against a Titan... hopefully others feel the same way.

Everyone loves a Attack on Titan.

I am indeed looking forward to doing an Attack on Titan. My meltas should be useful.

I wonder if grabbing a grappling-hook, getting up to the Titan's head, and cutting it in the neck with a power sword will work?

Screamerstar is crazy. Just because it no longer is a completely amazing nigh-unkillable build doesn't mean that Escalation is therefore bad.

A superheavy is essentially a single-model deathstar. They all cost an awful lot of points and do a lot of damage (like a deathstar). Also, just because a Lord of War has a Strength D weapon does not magically mean that all of the armies' attacks are now Strength D; you're still getting those insane re-rollable 2++s against everything else. Take the Lord of War out before it takes out your deathstar. Steamroll everything.

Seer Council Deathstar doesn't work as well as it did in 5th edition. Does that mean that 6th is bad?

 Frozen Ocean wrote:
Screamerstar is crazy. Just because it no longer is a completely amazing nigh-unkillable build doesn't mean that Escalation is therefore bad.

A superheavy is essentially a single-model deathstar. They all cost an awful lot of points and do a lot of damage (like a deathstar). Also, just because a Lord of War has a Strength D weapon does not magically mean that all of the armies' attacks are now Strength D; you're still getting those insane re-rollable 2++s against everything else. Take the Lord of War out before it takes out your deathstar. Steamroll everything.

Seer Council Deathstar doesn't work as well as it did in 5th edition. Does that mean that 6th is bad?

It may suck for the Screamerstar, but it sucks a lot more for me and everyone else with "traditional" armies. If I can't kill that thing before turn three, it will have killed four of my units, or six if the opponent went first. Add in the other half of my opponent's army, and I'm pretty much tabled. Add in some decent target priority from the opponent and I'll end up not being able to kill the damn thing at all, and it gets five turns of free reign.

Ad, btw, Seer Councils are waaaaaaay better now than in 5th.

 yakface wrote:

So are these ONLY available in ebook format and not the usual ibook format?

And why does stronghold say it is 'ebook format' but escalation doesn't (when it is)?

I don't like the standard ebook format very much, so it irks me that it seems to be only in that format.

Anyone have any other info about when or if they're coming out in ibook format?

They're actual books too. I own both, and that's why I used images of the books as my article images.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 chaosvoices wrote:
I'm waiting to read the book to see if I can bring in other FW Lords of War that more closely fit my army (CSM), then I'll buy the only one I'll probably own.

Not at the moment. Though FW can just release something saying like "The following are Lords of War in games of Escalation:" and then list a bunch of stuff. It'd really balance out the options a lot more.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 wuestenfux wrote:
The new book contains the rule set, same as for apoc, data sheets (same pt costs as in the apoc book) for the Baneblade pattern tanks, Thunder hawk, KLoS, Obelisk, Trans. C'tan, Tess. Vault, Stompa, Rev. Titan, Tiger Shark, and Harridan, and a set of six missions.

6 Altar of War Missions plus 3 Gauntlet Challenge Missions. So 9 total.

Thud wrote:

 Frozen Ocean wrote:
Screamerstar is crazy. Just because it no longer is a completely amazing nigh-unkillable build doesn't mean that Escalation is therefore bad.

A superheavy is essentially a single-model deathstar. They all cost an awful lot of points and do a lot of damage (like a deathstar). Also, just because a Lord of War has a Strength D weapon does not magically mean that all of the armies' attacks are now Strength D; you're still getting those insane re-rollable 2++s against everything else. Take the Lord of War out before it takes out your deathstar. Steamroll everything.

Seer Council Deathstar doesn't work as well as it did in 5th edition. Does that mean that 6th is bad?

It may suck for the Screamerstar, but it sucks a lot more for me and everyone else with "traditional" armies. If I can't kill that thing before turn three, it will have killed four of my units, or six if the opponent went first. Add in the other half of my opponent's army, and I'm pretty much tabled. Add in some decent target priority from the opponent and I'll end up not being able to kill the damn thing at all, and it gets five turns of free reign.

Ad, btw, Seer Councils are waaaaaaay better now than in 5th.

It's really not that bad. As others have said, a Baneblade is basically less effective than equivalent points in Leman Russes. If your army can deal with tough armour (and if you don't have melta, something is wrong), it can deal with most of the Lords of War. Remember, that 700pts+ model is 700pts+ that could have been spent elsewhere. 700pts of Fire Warriors would do a lot of damage.

And sorry, I was vaguely intending to collect Eldar at some point during 5th, and sort of remember people talking about Seer Councils in a good way. And then relatively recently I heard somewhere that they aren't as effective anymore (I think it was in a batrep). The point is, just because one deathstar is made less effective because of something, doesn't automatically make that something bad.

"My Land Raider army is really good against this guy who only runs lasgun Guardsmen on foot, but once a Dark Eldar played killed me with a heat lance. Therefore the DE codex is OP and bad."

 Frozen Ocean wrote:

It's really not that bad. As others have said, a Baneblade is basically less effective than equivalent points in Leman Russes. If your army can deal with tough armour (and if you don't have melta, something is wrong), it can deal with most of the Lords of War. Remember, that 700pts+ model is 700pts+ that could have been spent elsewhere. 700pts of Fire Warriors would do a lot of damage.

I dare you to kill my Transcendent C'Tan (720 points) with 720 points of Fire Warriors !

I dare you to kill my Transcendent C'Tan (720 points) with 720 points of Fire Warriors !

I'm too lazy to do the math, but it shouldn't be a big problem for the FW to kill an superheavy with a 3+ save and two wounds more than a normal C'tan.

 wuestenfux wrote:

I dare you to kill my Transcendent C'Tan (720 points) with 720 points of Fire Warriors !

I'm too lazy to do the math, but it shouldn't be a big problem for the FW to kill an superheavy with a 3+ save and two wounds more than a normal C'tan.

On the grounds it's T9 and they can't even hurt it, I'd say it'll be quite a large problem actually.

Eyjio wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:

I dare you to kill my Transcendent C'Tan (720 points) with 720 points of Fire Warriors !

I'm too lazy to do the math, but it shouldn't be a big problem for the FW to kill an superheavy with a 3+ save and two wounds more than a normal C'tan.

On the grounds it's T9 and they can't even hurt it, I'd say it'll be quite a large problem actually.

Well, S5 should be able to hurt T9, shouldn't it?

S5 cannot hurt T9

 Vaktathi wrote:
S5 cannot hurt T9

 Vaktathi wrote:
S5 cannot hurt T9

The table seems kind of weird, since S4 can hurt T7, where 7 = 2*4 - 1.
Since 9 = 2*5 - 1, S5 should be able to hurt T9.

The obvious answer is to spend the points on Sniper Kroot and Sniper Drones then.

 wuestenfux wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
S5 cannot hurt T9

The table seems kind of weird, since S4 can hurt T7, where 7 = 2*4 - 1.
Since 9 = 2*5 - 1, S5 should be able to hurt T9.

The ranking is S+3 to the maximum T you can wound. Also, the Transcendent C'Tan also has FnP so those 720 points of FW could barely do 3 wounds/turn even if they could wound the C'Tan on 6+. Ad then the C'Tan uses his magical 18" D move and D Hellstorm template and S6 AP 2 Hellstorm template attacks and kills the Tau army.

Also, snipers only wound the C'tan on 6+. Poisoned weapons too.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
The obvious answer is to spend the points on Sniper Kroot and Sniper Drones then.

Which wound on 6's only. Rule is S+4 for immunity.

 UlrikDecado wrote:

Makumba wrote:




Fun stuff .

Please dont... they take most powerful thing with D weapons (or is something better? Im not 100% sure), put against it clearly "unprepared" army and than both of them laughs how ridiculous it is without chaos player trying to make some strategy or VP? Dunno...Im still not conviced that some of LoW are not too destabilizing, but this was just "hey guys, lets make video how its clearly OP, lets make it argument in the style Angry Joe! - yeaaaaah, damned superheavies!" :(

I love playing pick-up games with all comer lists. I don't like building a army based on what i know my oppent is bringing/playing because if i win i don't feel like I won it by being a better player. I one it by out rock-paper-scissor'ing my opponent.

That video bassicly shows why that thought process is dead in the water now. A oppent could bassicly just drop that into a game and yuck it up. Because I know for a fact none of my "all comer lists" could deal with that. All my time in 5th, even when i know the game was going to be a bad match up anyway, I would still play the pick up game to challenge myself.

For the 1st time, I know for a fact I will have to refuse to play people if they start pulling out certain super heavies.

How are gravguns vs gargantuans?

 AtoMaki wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
S5 cannot hurt T9

The table seems kind of weird, since S4 can hurt T7, where 7 = 2*4 - 1.
Since 9 = 2*5 - 1, S5 should be able to hurt T9.

The ranking is S+3 to the maximum T you can wound. Also, the Transcendent C'Tan also has FnP so those 720 points of FW could barely do 3 wounds/turn even if they could wound the C'Tan on 6+. Ad then the C'Tan uses his magical 18" D move and D Hellstorm template and S6 AP 2 Hellstorm template attacks and kills the Tau army.

Also, snipers only wound the C'tan on 6+. Poisoned weapons too.

Right, S+3 to the max. T. Tau armies often have S6 or higher weapons to target a T9 monster. God forbid! A C'tan in range with the two hellstorm template can annihilate a whole army when bunched up.

 Illumini wrote:
How are gravguns vs gargantuans?

They seem amazingly powerful. Gravbikers should be able to kill off a Hierophant in short order. Assuming it does not eat them first.

 Illumini wrote:
How are gravguns vs gargantuans?

They work normally (praise God) but you need some ~40 grav shots to kill the C'Tan.

Also, from Tau the best you can get for 720 points is 14 Crisis suits (using Farsight Enclaves) with double fusion blasters. They will cause 1.5 wounds/turn...

Eyjio wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
The obvious answer is to spend the points on Sniper Kroot and Sniper Drones then.

Which wound on 6's only. Rule is S+4 for immunity.

Still better than the Fire Warriors. And with enough Kroot you could potentially get a lot of 6s.

 AtoMaki wrote:

 Frozen Ocean wrote:

It's really not that bad. As others have said, a Baneblade is basically less effective than equivalent points in Leman Russes. If your army can deal with tough armour (and if you don't have melta, something is wrong), it can deal with most of the Lords of War. Remember, that 700pts+ model is 700pts+ that could have been spent elsewhere. 700pts of Fire Warriors would do a lot of damage.

I dare you to kill my Transcendent C'Tan (720 points) with 720 points of Fire Warriors !

You know that's not how it works, and I said Fire Warriors just as an example. Also, I didn't think the Transcendant C'tan was in Escalation? Also, everyone knows that the TC'tan is crazy powerful!

 Frozen Ocean wrote:

 AtoMaki wrote:

 Frozen Ocean wrote:

It's really not that bad. As others have said, a Baneblade is basically less effective than equivalent points in Leman Russes. If your army can deal with tough armour (and if you don't have melta, something is wrong), it can deal with most of the Lords of War. Remember, that 700pts+ model is 700pts+ that could have been spent elsewhere. 700pts of Fire Warriors would do a lot of damage.

I dare you to kill my Transcendent C'Tan (720 points) with 720 points of Fire Warriors !

You know that's not how it works, and I said Fire Warriors just as an example. Also, I didn't think the Transcendant C'tan was in Escalation? Also, everyone knows that the TC'tan is crazy powerful!

The Transcendant C'Tan is in Escalation. And it was just an example .