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Being able to use Horus Heresy lists as allies. I know it doesn't make sense lore wise but FW said they can be fielded in normal 40k just not as allies.

Bronzefists42 wrote:
Being able to use Horus Heresy lists as allies. I know it doesn't make sense lore wise but FW said they can be fielded in normal 40k just not as allies.

FW said they're not intended for 40k, but if your opponent agrees to if you can.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Bronzefists42 wrote:
Being able to use Horus Heresy lists as allies. I know it doesn't make sense lore wise but FW said they can be fielded in normal 40k just not as allies.

FW said they're not intended for 40k, but if your opponent agrees to if you can.

Having played those lists, it really doesn't feel out of place. I just think of it as a weird Marine Subfaction with really powerful tech and they fit in right well with their own pros and cons.

Forgeworld.

Are you talking about apocalypse models? Forgeworld is allowed in standard 40k.

 Valkyrie wrote:
More mission variety. We have our three deployment options and 6 missions, but they're pretty much all either "Kill as much as you can" or "Hold the objective". Battle Missions was a load of pap too, since most of them were just "Hold the objectives but this time you get a slightly different deployment zone".

I think I've still got a copy of 3rd Edition somewhere back home, and the missions there were so much better. You had Breakout, where you were surrounded and had to get as many units off the table. You had Meat Grinder, get as many units behind the enemy lines, very little of the boring stuff we have today.

There's about a bajillion Altar of War missions out there now. I just played one today that was a blast.

Charging after deepstrike wouldnt be a good thing.

Because I would run Belial with either 10 knights or 10 hammernators.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Forgeworld.

Are you talking about apocalypse models? Forgeworld is allowed in standard 40k.

It really isn't in practice, though. That it arguably should be (which I think too) and rather unambiguously is declared as such by FW doesn't change the fact that people won't play against lists including ForgeWorld models in many places.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Forgeworld.

Are you talking about apocalypse models? Forgeworld is allowed in standard 40k.

It really isn't in practice, though. That it arguably should be (which I think too) and rather unambiguously is declared as such by FW doesn't change the fact that people won't play against lists including ForgeWorld models in many places.

I suppose, I am glad to be in an area that actually enjoys forgeworld.

More restrictions. It sounds stupid but it's easily the thing that annoys me most currently. I actually miss the days of 0-1 units, where if something was meant to be rare it was actually rare. I want them to totally redo army selection. I think formations are actually the way to go here - if you want people to pick "background accurate" armies, you need to reward them for doing so. Apocalypse does this well (it's my favourite part of it honestly) so it's a bit weird that they still cling onto the current method when it's not only hugely error prone but also open to "abuse" so to speak; it'd also make more sense when scaling up and choosing a leader.

I'd also like to throw away current reserve rules and replace them with picking exactly which turns things arrive at the start as they currently make no sense - things just arrive at random, with no input from the commander? It's dumb. Likewise, I'd entirely replace warlord traits with strategic asset type things - it makes more sense to plan out a battle beforehand rather than have some random garbage happen. Generally, the game just needs to flow more dynamically and be less of the muddled "do whatever but with random" game which it seems to be trying to be at the moment. If you're going to make the game playable on a huge scale in a normal game, it needs to be fun whilst doing so and be somewhat intuitive. At the moment with the alternating turn system, the very fixed missions and the weird armies you can have, it feels confusing and frustrating more than anything. Alternating activation has got to be the most requested thing in the game and it gets rid of many issues we're seeing like interceptor being way too good, or cool units having no way to do anything because they just die if you go second.

Morale needs to mean something. Units should not remain fearless and stuck in combat for 4+ turns - things get exhausted, morale wears down, people break off at different points of a fight, none of which are represented in game. It leads to absurd things like a Wraithknight having to beat down 50 guardsmen as it can't escape nor make them panic. The entire concept of being locked in combat is clearly there just to make assault not useless and it's just a poor mechanic. Panic, it seems, is totally absent in the 41st millenium, even in the face of an unwinnable situation. If a group can't hurt something, it should be forced to flee, not make it optional. Maybe Tyranids would acknowledge that throwing bodies into a grinder will work slowly but am I really meant to believe 50 men would charge something they can't hurt, don't want to engage and have no plan of action just because a big burly guy in armour is telling them to (or, in reality, the player is gaming the locked in combat mechanic)? Even when about 2 models in the unit can hurt it, why the heck can they attack but not be struck if there's stuff in front of them? It just makes no sense that a whole unit would engage when there's almost nothing most of them can do, just so players can lock things down. Likewise, pinning is a great idea for a mechanic (being shot at would make you get down) which is made totally worthless by everyone being a fearless rock which will march forwards through the bodies of their fallen comrades just to stand on arbitrary point A.

Finally, my pet peeve - objectives. They're meaningless game tools. Do they do anything? Nope. Do they have any significance? Nope. Is there any real reason the commander can stand on top of one and you lose, but a grot stood on the same one makes you win? Nope. They represent absolutely nothing. They're not useful points to hold, they don't confer any advantage and there's no motivation to go there other than to win a game. Sure, some people will go out of their way to make them do stuff but that still doesn't explain the restrictions. Why is it that I can stand a tactical squad on one and that counts, yet a devastator squad doesn't? It's nonsensical. Not only that but you see games where you would lose the next turn, yet because you're stood on these exact points at exactly the right moment, you win. It's caused the introduction of several game mechanics which are also too gamey IMO like variable game length and staying aboard a transport until the last possible second - not something you'd realistically do, but that's what makes you win arbitrarily. There are so many better ways this could be done, from table quarters to alternate win conditions, yet most missions are based off these weird things which are, for all intents and purposes, useless. Mysterious objectiuves makes this even worse IMO - we're going for something that we don't know what it is in enemy territory, and will fight tooth and nail for the right to have one guy from the correct FOC slot on it? Really? Really? As far as game writing goes, in a system where they've repeatedly said it's a casual system, they sure make no attempts to make it feel like an actual battle rather than just a game. Even if vehicles/MCs can't score, infantry should be able to. There's no excuse for any of the objective stuff to still exist and it plays badly.

 ChocletEyeOfTerror wrote:
That you can charge after deepstrike

This must NOT happen. Ever. Period.

Apart from that formations and dataslates should be as supplements. Everyone can play them. However escalation should be an expansion. As for additions to the edition, well it would be nice to have more missions. But no, hell no, NO super heavy stuff without both players agreement.

 avedominusnox wrote:

 ChocletEyeOfTerror wrote:
That you can charge after deepstrike

This must NOT happen. Ever. Period.

Apart from that formations and dataslates should be as supplements. Everyone can play them. However escalation should be an expansion. As for additions to the edition, well it would be nice to have more missions. But no, hell no, NO super heavy stuff without both players agreement.

I reckon some units should be allowed to do this, not super powerful ones, but dedicated CC units. Maybe have them scatter 3D6 when they come out

BS6 Orcs.

 avedominusnox wrote:

 ChocletEyeOfTerror wrote:
That you can charge after deepstrike

This must NOT happen. Ever. Period.

Because the vulcha boys are broken.

 ImotekhTheStormlord wrote:

 avedominusnox wrote:

 ChocletEyeOfTerror wrote:
That you can charge after deepstrike

This must NOT happen. Ever. Period.

Because the vulcha boys are broken.

Know what would be hilarious? A Slaanesh Soul Grinder deepstriking with accuracy thanks to Seekers with Icons and then ruining an enemy squad.

 Wilytank wrote:

 ImotekhTheStormlord wrote:

 avedominusnox wrote:

 ChocletEyeOfTerror wrote:
That you can charge after deepstrike

This must NOT happen. Ever. Period.

Because the vulcha boys are broken.

Know what would be hilarious? A Slaanesh Soul Grinder deepstriking with accuracy thanks to Seekers with Icons and then ruining an enemy squad.

The word you're looking for is 'awesome'.

 ImotekhTheStormlord wrote:

 Wilytank wrote:

 ImotekhTheStormlord wrote:

 avedominusnox wrote:

 ChocletEyeOfTerror wrote:
That you can charge after deepstrike

This must NOT happen. Ever. Period.

Because the vulcha boys are broken.

Know what would be hilarious? A Slaanesh Soul Grinder deepstriking with accuracy thanks to Seekers with Icons and then ruining an enemy squad.

The word you're looking for is 'awesome'.

Why not rename this topic to: things you don't want in standard 40k?